To me, "flying well" just means "don't **** up too much". Don't joust with a list that you shouldn't, don't slap into rocks/ships, that sorta thing. Sure, there's another layer of skill that can come into X-Wing, but learning the absolute basics of flying are the far more critical. All of the "beyond beginner mistakes" you list are, comparatively, less critical than the basics that come before. Obviously you still want to learn that stuff, but the biggest, most important step will actually be knowing how to fly the ships in your list: staying in formation (or out of formation if you have a LW flanker), not costing yourself wasted actions/dice modifications/attacks.

Because nothing will sink a player faster than having ships getting attacked without attacking back, or not being able to modify your dice. Indeed, a lot of the time I see dice get blamed is when a player isn't getting modifications. If anything, you should thank the dice for when they do roll well without modifiers.

"Flying it well" is the standard code for "bad" but blames the player rather than the ship itself.

See: TIE Defenders.

A poor workman blames his tools.

Best advice: just don't suck.

1. Angle of Attack

(Are you coming straight in parallel to their AoA? Are you placing on a BIAS so that you don't share the same AoA as your opponent? When dodging, are you landing in their arc by an INCH or more? When dodging, are you missing your arc (counter shot) by an INCH or less? Do you have a contingency plan?)

2. Speed of Attack

(Are you overshooting the sweet spot for your LIST/SHIP? Are you overshooting the target entirely? Are you able to pull out before you're in their killzone? Have you overshot your killzone? Do you you have a contingency plan?)

3. Coordinated Attack(s)
(Are you moving in the correct order (shared PS)? Are you consistent in getting every ship a shot on target? Was there a reason to split your formation so early? Do you even lift? I mean, do you have a contingency plan?)

---

This may sound super simplified, but I promise you it isnt. Here's an exercise: Say you drove home from work, and it went well. You drove well. You didn't hit anything. You weren't late. If asked how you got home, you'd say you pushed the gas and turned the wheel. And poof, you were home. But peel back a layer of "natural response to vehicular meta," and you'll find literally 1,000s of micro-decisions were made in the background -- some of them entirely sub-conscious. BAD DRIVERS are not making as many micro-decisions. BAD DRIVERS have no contingency plan.

Okay this is awesome.

But please think about these this way. The two biggest mistakes I see people make are intellectual.

1. ATTACK WITH ALL YOUR SHIPS AT THE SAME STARTING FIRING ROUND. Do not have ships hopelessly far from combat or facing without a shot.

This is a reduction of Sun Tsu's main line: Always attempt to outnumber the enemy. If 75 points of his list fight 100 points of yours on the first turn, you did it! Then if the next turn 100 vs 100, but you killed off that weakened ship you attacked last turn, the game is now 100 vs 80. You did it again.

In a game where we start with equal points, sun tsu's line isn't about playing only games where you get 150 points vs 100. No. Every turn is an instance where you can try and get a superior number of attacking units.

2. ALWAYS HAVE DICE MODIFIERS. ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS. Preferably focus. You should never attack/defend without some relevant dice mod. Of course, arc dodging so he has no shot, and you have a unmodified shot is awesome. That falls again under sun tsu's "fight where you outnumber him".

You should only BR or Boost if it literally gives you a shot and likely denies your opponent one. Otherwise, stay put and FOCUS **** it.

I see way too many new players trying to be fancy. Don't. Focus.

If you do these two things. And try not to hit rocks and get bumped, you'll be past my level 1. God job, you passed beginner flight school. If you don't do these things, stop. And go practice.

"Flying Well" in a game that has no up or down Z axis is a stupid term to use in any case. Using it as a veiled reference to extreme action economy and RNG mitigation is dishonest and pretty repugnant.

"Flying Well" in a game that has no up or down Z axis is a stupid term to use in any case. Using it as a veiled reference to extreme action economy and RNG mitigation is dishonest and pretty repugnant.

Hey cool your jets Maverick. This isn't Top Gun.

"Flying Well" in a game that has no up or down Z axis is a stupid term to use in any case. Using it as a veiled reference to extreme action economy and RNG mitigation is dishonest and pretty repugnant.

Just replace every instance of "flying well" in this thread with "playing well" and your complaint disappears. I don't think anyone here actually believes that we're talking about the same skills that a real-life pilot relies on.

One big one I'd add:

• Know the gestalt of your ships.

Minor variations between ships lead them to having vastly different play-styles. If you know the full implication of your ships' stats, you can maximize your potential.

Meanwhile, if you know the full implication of your opponents' stats, you can use their weaknesses against them, and capitalize on their unwitting misplays.

For instance:

The Aggressor has two speeds: Fast and Faster. Its dial, base, and actions all point towards zooming past the opponent, and reappearing on their 6, or even better, their 9. This is particularly true if IG-88C is in play, as the player will want to Boost all the more often.

"Flying it well" is the standard code for "bad" but blames the player rather than the ship itself.

See: TIE Defenders.

A poor workman blames his tools.

A good workman can tell when his tools are poor.

I like to think of it as some people are better able to handle some tools than others. Specialized tools, as it where.

Playstyle is a big factor on whether or not you can handle some builds. Which is why I like Scum Boba. I'm a bit aggressive when I play.

"Flying it well" is the standard code for "bad" but blames the player rather than the ship itself.

See: TIE Defenders.

A poor workman blames his tools.

A good workman can tell when his tools are poor.

I like to think of it as some people are better able to handle some tools than others. Specialized tools, as it where.

Playstyle is a big factor on whether or not you can handle some builds. Which is why I like Scum Boba. I'm a bit aggressive when I play.

Scum bobba is great I've teamed him with Kath to great effect he dove in fearlessly while she hung back and sniped with HLC, he lost his shields but considering the incoming fire that was pretty good.

I often wonder why twin sprays never became a thing.

"Flying it well" is the standard code for "bad" but blames the player rather than the ship itself.

See: TIE Defenders.

A poor workman blames his tools.

A good workman can tell when his tools are poor.

I like to think of it as some people are better able to handle some tools than others. Specialized tools, as it where.

Playstyle is a big factor on whether or not you can handle some builds. Which is why I like Scum Boba. I'm a bit aggressive when I play.

Scum bobba is great I've teamed him with Kath to great effect he dove in fearlessly while she hung back and sniped with HLC, he lost his shields but considering the incoming fire that was pretty good.

I often wonder why twin sprays never became a thing.

They were... in Wave III.

In Wave VI, if you wanted twin-scum, you typically went with Aggressors instead.

The biggest thing is that Boba and Kath fly very differently to enable their respective pilot abilities, so you should think of them as completely different entities with deceptively similar looking models.

• (There's a counterpoint here in that the threat of ordnance can affect how the enemy plays, and the best opportunity to fire (with stacked actions) doesn't come up, it can also be a mistake to fire ordnance at the earliest opportunity)

I like that you brought that point up. The value of ion pulse missiles or assault missiles in particular is partially in how it forces your opponent to fly. The threat that you can ion a large ship or splash damage a ball of ships can really make them pay attention to your list, and perhaps make them fly in a way they weren't intending to.

To me, "flying well" just means "don't **** up too much". Don't joust with a list that you shouldn't, don't slap into rocks/ships, that sorta thing. Sure, there's another layer of skill that can come into X-Wing, but learning the absolute basics of flying are the far more critical. All of the "beyond beginner mistakes" you list are, comparatively, less critical than the basics that come before. Obviously you still want to learn that stuff, but the biggest, most important step will actually be knowing how to fly the ships in your list: staying in formation (or out of formation if you have a LW flanker), not costing yourself wasted actions/dice modifications/attacks.

I pretty much agree here too. It comes down to the fact that some lists are more susceptible to a poor move than others. A list with three interceptors can be easily unraveled if you make a bad call and end up in more arcs than you intended, and lose one early. That's a scenario where "It's a good list if flown well" is absolutely true, and isn't at all about the dice or the build itself. It's purely about planning and strategy, which is where good flying shows itself.

• (There's a counterpoint here in that the threat of ordnance can affect how the enemy plays, and the best opportunity to fire (with stacked actions) doesn't come up, it can also be a mistake to fire ordnance at the earliest opportunity)

I like that you brought that point up. The value of ion pulse missiles or assault missiles in particular is partially in how it forces your opponent to fly. The threat that you can ion a large ship or splash damage a ball of ships can really make them pay attention to your list, and perhaps make them fly in a way they weren't intending to.

To me, "flying well" just means "don't **** up too much". Don't joust with a list that you shouldn't, don't slap into rocks/ships, that sorta thing. Sure, there's another layer of skill that can come into X-Wing, but learning the absolute basics of flying are the far more critical. All of the "beyond beginner mistakes" you list are, comparatively, less critical than the basics that come before. Obviously you still want to learn that stuff, but the biggest, most important step will actually be knowing how to fly the ships in your list: staying in formation (or out of formation if you have a LW flanker), not costing yourself wasted actions/dice modifications/attacks.

I pretty much agree here too. It comes down to the fact that some lists are more susceptible to a poor move than others. A list with three interceptors can be easily unraveled if you make a bad call and end up in more arcs than you intended, and lose one early. That's a scenario where "It's a good list if flown well" is absolutely true, and isn't at all about the dice or the build itself. It's purely about planning and strategy, which is where good flying shows itself.

We call this a "Skill Ceiling".

That is to say, Fat Han has a very low skill-ceiling: It doesn't take much skill to master, and is consistent through that initial decent-play and high mastery.

However, if you bring out a Triple-Ace list, each increment in your skill as a player shows up on the board, and it doesn't plateau until really high in the skill level.

Defenders have a high skill-ceiling.

Phantoms have a high skill-ceiling.

Decimators have possibly the lowest skill-ceiling in the game.

Paul Heaver's Asteroid movement suggests that there is a tad bit more skill ceiling than you think.

Defenders have a high skill-ceiling.

Phantoms have a high skill-ceiling.

Decimators have possibly the lowest skill-ceiling in the game.

Yeah decimators are very easy to use and set up only time I did really badly is when I put Palpatine in one as an experiment but I also flew like crap that night.

Paul Heaver's Asteroid movement suggests that there is a tad bit more skill ceiling than you think.

Asteroid play is certainly a skill, but being skilled enough to navigate them like he does, vs being unskilled and simply using Debris, makes a very minor difference.

Of course, in Worlds, that very minor difference wins games, but still.

Defenders have a high skill-ceiling.

Phantoms have a high skill-ceiling.

Decimators have possibly the lowest skill-ceiling in the game.

Disagree on the Phantoms. Generics have a high skill ceiling as it's super important to place them in positions where they'll not die with their Z-95 health, but the named super ones are pretty much, 'decloak right, hard 1 left' every turn and can afford a few incoming shots.

If you give a new player a super Phantom it'll immediately end up on an asteroid and die. But after their first few games with them players simply never land them on asteroids again. 'All you have to do is not land on an asteroid' is not high skill ceiling.

Relative to how they were pre-nerf, yes, they take more skill to fly, but they're still pretty easy mode.

Defenders have a high skill-ceiling.

Phantoms have a high skill-ceiling.

Decimators have possibly the lowest skill-ceiling in the game.

Disagree on the Phantoms. Generics have a high skill ceiling as it's super important to place them in positions where they'll not die with their Z-95 health, but the named super ones are pretty much, 'decloak right, hard 1 left' every turn and can afford a few incoming shots.

If you give a new player a super Phantom it'll immediately end up on an asteroid and die. But after their first few games with them players simply never land them on asteroids again. 'All you have to do is not land on an asteroid' is not high skill ceiling.

Relative to how they were pre-nerf, yes, they take more skill to fly, but they're still pretty easy mode.

I suspect there is an even higher plateau for Phantoms, wherein they use maneuvers *other* than the 1 turn with confidence, but I'll cede that Whisper is the easiest Phantom to use well.

I'd actually suggest that the PTL interceptor skill ceiling is lower than people think - it's fairly easy to boost/roll out of arc - or plop down a focus + evade. That's how most PTL interceptors play. The harder thing about them is thinking of future turns. But that kind of movement is pretty easy to grasp. The skill ceiling comes in with the idea that interceptors rarely get more than one mistake.

I think I agree with others - Flying well may as well be Playing well to me.

Lots of good thoughts and posts from the community! Awesome! It's very cool to read other's thoughts on this thread.

Fly your ships like they are suppose to be flown instead of forcing them to fly like something else. An example I see of this is players flying the syck with a cannon like they would fly a b-wing with a cannon. The syck dial is different and you can't "slow roll" like a b-wing, you have to slow roll the way a syck wants to. Hard 1 turns or banks with barrel rolls. There's a difference in knowing your ship dial, and playing to your dials strengths. Excellent post by the way.

What I think of when I think "flying well,l" is that you understand the squad and it's relative strengths well enough consistently plan ahead. You have good fundamentals, but you also know the good and bad places for your squad in how it relates to the next turn or two.

It is important for any squad, but it is more important for squads whose relative strengths are not reactive.

You guys are using the term "ceiling" to mean "floor".

They're antonyms.

Well said, Ravncat!

I had a nice long game last night that I can easily scrutinize with some of this criteria.

I wish there was a way to be more detailed. I have a tough time explaining "good play" techniques in specific terms since it can vary greatly from game to game, moment to moment, and list to list.

I think a good way (or just another way) to start would be differentiating between 2 different moments in each game, and the skills that are involved:

1. Reaction Play

- Skill to make the right decisions on the current round or for the immediate action choice, etc.

2. Action Play

- Skill to set up and plan for what you want. Skill to stick to your action plan or know when to break it off.

I think I like your breakdown more though! Very nice.

One last note, good play can also be "set back" by dice. Which is actually great, because it gives you another chance to show "good play"! You learn a LOT about how to win this game when you are working hard to win after falling behind. The real trick is putting this same energy into winning BEFORE falling behind.