You wouldn't be able to build a Squadron, because no one would trust the next guy/gal!

Right, so black sun gangsters who might be able to gain in position if their flight leader has an... accident wouldn't... accidentally, shoot them down, or kill their shields at an inopportune moment.

Sure.

Right.

I'll be over here in the corner giggling more. Xizor himself is basically inverse ruthless don't forget.

At that point, you're just doing dumb roleplaying though. And if you're going to try and use that as justification for cheesing the game mechanics then you have to go, "Well, that guy shot at the flight leader, so others in the squadron that are loyal should then have to attack that guy."

It's asinine to be all "I'm being thematic!" when it's giving you a gameplay advantage and then immediately stop being thematic the moment it doesn't give you a gameplay advantage anymore.

Try to think of it as a weird scum only lone wolf.

Where there could be penalties for flying close together, and advantages for flying apart. (maybe an extra defense die - as flying more casually not worried about Frank shooting him in the back).

It's easy to be thematic and make it work, all you need is an open mind and a pen.

I'm not talking loyalty and kill the unbeliever, more of a "whoops" followed by a shanking by the guy he "accidentally" hit, if they survive. a Scum only lonewolf/ruthless crossover card would work, be thematic and match fluff and crunch. It would be actually quite awesome.

And do you know the best thing about it?

If you don't want your scum to be all backstabby? Don't take the effing card.

An alternate idea is a scum card of some kind with a negative point cost, which adds distrust/backstabbing.

I'm not talking loyalty and kill the unbeliever, more of a "whoops" followed by a shanking by the guy he "accidentally" hit, if they survive.

Sure, but that justification becomes less viable if you're using it to, say, shoot your own ship with assault missiles round after round to AoE the enemy.

Once is a "whoops". After that, it becomes a "okay, time to shoot down the obvious traitor trying to kill the boss".

I'm not talking loyalty and kill the unbeliever, more of a "whoops" followed by a shanking by the guy he "accidentally" hit, if they survive.

Sure, but that justification becomes less viable if you're using it to, say, shoot your own ship with assault missiles round after round to AoE the enemy.

Once is a "whoops". After that, it becomes a "okay, time to shoot down the obvious traitor trying to kill the boss".

Read the rest of it.

I'm not suggesting direct targeting. More of an accidental slip or two in the squadron at either a negative points cost or some kind of combat bonus. The ability to directly target underlings would be a seperate EPT or pilot skill altogether, and even then it'd be for a particularly dickish black sun vigo or gang boss. It would still fit. Hell, for that particular EPT i'd even allow the target rolling 1 less defense dice, so you can properly **** over the cheap fool in the Z-95/dead mans switch flying close to the enemy with an assault missile...

Even saboteur and intel agent already more LCG or roleplay-like if you think about it.

I mean how should sabotage work during space combat?

Jumping over, cutting a open wire and then hurry back to the ship?

Agent Jones, flying close to the damaged decimator with a Samsung S4. (The droid he was looking for).

Great... uploading windows ME 95% complete...

Intel agent...

Hm, those markings correspond with Argos Cat'log of Blue squadron.... he likes to Hard turn favouring his left...

Right you are sir, oh he did <zapzapzap>

All can be justified. Intel is intel, psychoanalysis is what it is - though in the heat of battle i'll grant it's a bit unrealistic.

slicing in Star Wars is a thing even if Wifi is a tad newer than the movies.

Mara Jade - gives a stress token to everyone within range one if they don't already.

**** that's my wife if the kids are playing up, right there.

Why not?

Because:

Even saboteur and intel agent already more LCG or roleplay-like if you think about it.

I mean how should sabotage work during space combat?

Jumping over, cutting a open wire and then hurry back to the ship?

The sabatoge was done prior to the skirmish, and perhaps the crew member needs to be at range to activate whatever device was set. Although I can see a sabatoging droid flying over to the other ship or perhaps firing some device that affects the target.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5rRZdiu1UE

All that needs to be said.

Even saboteur and intel agent already more LCG or roleplay-like if you think about it.

I mean how should sabotage work during space combat?

Jumping over, cutting a open wire and then hurry back to the ship?

The sabatoge was done prior to the skirmish, and perhaps the crew member needs to be at range to activate whatever device was set. Although I can see a sabatoging droid flying over to the other ship or perhaps firing some device that affects the target.

See? You have to phantasyze about how this could work.

This would imply that if the rebels come with a sabo, every single imperial craft was sabotaged. How should this have been accomplished?

Thats far far off the space dogfight theme.

The sabatoge was done prior to the skirmish, and perhaps the crew member needs to be at range to activate whatever device was set. Although I can see a sabatoging droid flying over to the other ship or perhaps firing some device that affects the target

See? You have to phantasyze about how this could work.

This would imply that if the rebels come with a sabo, every single imperial craft was sabotaged. How should this have been accomplished?

Thats far far off the space dogfight theme.

Same can be said for intel agent. I gave a sort of example how it works but in a knife fight it's less useful.

It doesn't ruin Biggs btw. All Biggs does is make friendly ships at range 1 untargetable, he doesn't force your opponent to shoot at him. Likewise he would only prevent you from attacking friendlies next to your own Biggs, you'd still be free to attack enemies at range 1 of Biggs.

Really the only thing that gains a lot from this is Miranda. Everything else requires hoops to be jumped through to be viable, and it opens up some interesting game play options.

Speaking of Dead Man's Switch, I've wondered why you even have to lose the last hull to trigger it. Why cant someone kamikaze and just let go of the switch themselves? If you wanna blow up your 100% health ship to inflict 1 damage to my ships in range 1, I'm cool with that. No need for even friendly fire to take you out

Speaking of Dead Man's Switch, I've wondered why you even have to lose the last hull to trigger it. Why cant someone kamikaze and just let go of the switch themselves? If you wanna blow up your 100% health ship to inflict 1 damage to my ships in range 1, I'm cool with that. No need for even friendly fire to take you out

Because its a Dead Man's Switch. This includes that the owner has to be dead to trigger it off.

At the end, they are criminals, not fanatics.

Exactly, let go of the switch, and youre a dead man

Dead mans switch typically is literally a switch you hold down, and when that's released kaboom.

Of course nothing to say it can't be hardwired to a ships reactor....

Well first off, I bet friend or foe detection is the reason, but if you could shoot your own squadmates they would likely still roll defense dice and give points to the opposing player.

Scum-only EPT: "Turncoat (2 pts): you can target your own ships."

First time I saw Dead Man's Switch, I immediately envisioned having several Z95s with Assault Missiles targeting a sacrificial Z95 with DMS to instantly wipe out Howlrunner mini swarms.

addition: if your attack hits and there are enemy ships in arc range 1-2 they suffer 1 damage.

Dead mans switch typically is literally a switch you hold down, and when that's released kaboom.

Of course nothing to say it can't be hardwired to a ships reactor....

Exactly, so whats stopping you from letting go of the switch? Kamikaze away!!

Dead mans switch typically is literally a switch you hold down, and when that's released kaboom.

Of course nothing to say it can't be hardwired to a ships reactor....

Exactly, so whats stopping you from letting go of the switch? Kamikaze away!!

Traditionally, at least in movies and TV shows, the switches are there as a deterrent to people trying to kill you. The person using the switch doesn't actually want to die, so they use mutually assured destruction to avoid it.

That's how it works in the game. The Binarye Pirate isn't getting paid enough to actually die for the cause, so he carries that Thermal Detonator as a way to convince the Imperials to ignore him. After all, he could blow up and take out prized ace Soontir Fel.

For examples of this, see Joker's grenade coat in The Dark Knight, or Dennis Hopper's character in Speed.

Thematically, the Rebel Alliance doesn't really have the resources to go around deliberately damaging its own spacecraft.

I could totally see rogue squadron pulling off something like this though. IIRC they weren't above using themselves as bait in the books.

On the other hand though, I could see a ship using another friendly ship as a target for an assault missile as thematic. "We won't be able to lock those TIE Phantoms, lock onto my ship and I'll fly close!"

How would a ship be able to get closer than a missile could?