With Wave VII, Twin Laser Turrets, and a forthcoming decline in 2-ship lists, I think I could benefit from renewed discussion of the Pilot Skill game.

Four TLT Y-Wings are capped at 2-2-2-2 with astromechs, or 4-4-2-2 without. Generic HWKs are only PS1-2, and you can't fit four TLT K-Wings in a list, so mostly it's the Gold and Thug Y-Wings that we're talking about.

The advantage in trumping their Pilot Skill is pretty straightforward: you have the capacity to severely impact the offensive efficiency of the list before their first or second full round of shooting. Formation and the particulars of first engagement are important, but being able to shoot first and avoid Simultaneous Fire is a boon.

So what's the point at which Pilot Skill becomes too expensive? I'm partial to running only a pair of TLTs or TLT-counters in 100 points so the rest of my list has some degree of flexibility. Two TLT Y-Wings at PS4 are 52 points before Astros. Two Dagger B-Wings come in at 48 but are significantly improved by Sensor upgrades, and two Fire-Control Systems bring them to the same 52 points; Advanced Sensors or Accuracy Correctors become 54. Tempest TIE/ad pilots with TIE/x1 titles and complimentary Accuracy Correctors are only 21 points each, and Cluster Missiles bump them to 25, but there's no denying the impact of those Cluster Missiles as a potent alpha strike against Y-Wings. Is it worth it then to bump them to Storm pilots for 27 apiece? Or at that point are the Missiles less necessary? Tala Headhunters seem the easiest way to overwhelm one or two Y-Wings, since 39 points for three of them could easily cripple a Y-Wing at Range 2-3 on first contact and stand a respectable chance of surviving return fire from 1-3 TLTs, but they're more dice-dependent. A fourth Tala hits that 52-point cap again and then has the capacity to fully remove a Y-Wing in one turn, but corralling the four Headhunters to participate against the same target becomes harder.

Green Squadron A-Wings with Push the Limit, the Chardaan Refit, Autothrusters, A-Wing Test Pilot title, and Wired come in at a respectable 23 points each, and a pair for 46 is certainly affordable, but they are only PS3 and have a harder time against any of the PS4 pilots above. The tradeoff seems to be their higher turret resistance from ATs, as well as Boost making it easier to seek the Range 1 dead zone.

Scum might stand in the sturdiest spot here since they have access to PS5 pilots with Elite Talent slots. Both Tansarii Point Veterans and Black Sun Aces offer plenty of build diversity, and the Khiraxzs in particular have access to Glitterstims for increased durability upon first engagement, and a solid 1-point EPT like Crack Shot or Lightning Reflexes brings their total cost to 26 each. The Scyk pilots can take the Heavy Scyk title, a Mangler Cannon, and Push the Limit (Focus/Evade for TLT resistance) for the same 26 points, albeit with higher AGI and two fewer Hull points. A Mandalorian Mercenary with Lone Wolf and Recon Specialist is a hefty 40 points but offers respectable resistance to one or two TLTs at a time, and can handily exploit the Range 1 dead zone around the TLT for decent damage; while not offering as much overall resistance as a pair of Small ships, the single Firespray can offer good distraction from the other 60 points of your list, even if it's just five Headhunters.

I would appreciate any input on this. I'm debating the use of two PS3-5 generics simply to help with TLT carriers, and then trying to make the rest of the list flexible enough to react to arc dodgers, swarms, or heavy firepower. Has the metagame finally pushed the second-tier generics back into the toolbox? If not, why not?

I think you've made a strong argument for mid PS anything (be they generic or named). The thing you have to ask is if the price you pay for the PS is taking too many points compared to other upgrades you might consider. If the other half of your squad is very weak to TLTs, for example, then you're probably justified taking a few points of PS to counter them. If not, you can probably scrimp to save the points for something else.

There's also the consideration that a PS 4 bid helps against TIE swarms and Blue Squadron B-wings, so that's nice.

I think it all depends on your list. There are a lot of great things you can go with that do beat the PS bid. You can do it specifically for the TLT list, or you can have something in your list that has SOME aspects that beat the TLT list. You can go with some cheap generics and one or two bigger ships (ace that can threaten...or mid level guy). So, do the Y-wings fire at the ace or the chump ships? The two Scum mid levels that come to mind are Graz the Hunter and Laetin Scyk. Laetin doesn't have an EPT, but he is still great vs. TLT's. Graz with Glitterstim and a bunch of generics around him can work very well.

If you face a lot of TLT's, I can see going with 4 x Gamma Tie Bombers w/ no bombs over 4 x Scimitar Bombers. Then again, you might be able to beat a TLT list with 4 Scimitars if you fly well. I haven't really tried it yet.

So.....are you looking for list ideas? Or just thinking on the PS bid?

3 shadows with advanced cloaking and either tactician or firecontrol would work here..

I've overheard some really good players talking about their swarm play: Best advice for them was to get PS3 or PS4, and no get any special tricks.

DTF also, not as good vs TLT swarm.

Predator is very much a ting in my local meta - so I've been putting a lot of thought into mid PS ships to mitigate that.

The fact that it may well also help against TLT spam is a bonus

The greenie is where it's at if you want a PS bid. Green w/ PTL and Juke is only 22 points. From that 22 points, you get two actions (F+E), access to a better dial (though you're typically going to be in the 2 speed band), boost, and Juke is almost as good as an additional damage. Plus, you're now PS3, and don't fall victim to Predator wrecking your day, and you gobefore the PS2 TLT "swarms." Your boost allows you to re-position yourself where you want to as well, exploiting the donut hole.

I like the idea of the Obsidian swarm with PtL Howlrunner, you've got a huge advantage over PS1-2 spam, TLT or otherwise.

I really like the Green Sq Pilot for its versatility here too, those are good points.

I hadn't considered the implications with Predator, that's another solid reason to jump over PS2. More ships will be equipping Predator too I should think, so that's not a bad idea.

Also re: Shadow Sq Pilots, I think a single Shadow with Advanced Cloak, Sensor Jammer, and Recon Specialist can be a solid addition to a list with a lot of uses. You'll want something to take on the PS6+ unique pilots (or a pair of Royal Guards would probably be the worst matchup) but I think a Cloaked Jammer Phantom might very well be the worst news possible for any generic TLT ship.

I want to try 4 Storm Squadron pilots with Accuracy Corrector, and Cluster Missiles on two of them (tentatively calling this list ThunderStorm) against 4xTLT Ys. Assuming I can maneuver well enough to get the missile equipped pilots locks and shots on the first turn of engagement, I would expect to remove one Y from the board before any get to shoot. After that it gets harder, because now neither side has enough firepower to reliably kill a ship each turn, but it should be an interesting game.

3 shadows with advanced cloaking and either tactician or firecontrol would work here.. Sensor Jammer will completely wreck 4x TLTs.

Fixed!

I've been considering TLT counter lists with the PS bid. Thinking things like 3 Grays with TLT and a Green with PtL and VI.

Green can get into the deadzone of one ore more enemy Ys, and all 4 can fire off their shots, potentially downing one before return fire is possible. If they do drop a Gold or Thug in the first round they will likely all survive long enough to drop another in the second round.

The PS bid definitely seems to be back.