We see a lot of advice around here on how to build good squads, both specific examples and general tips. However, whenever people talk about really bad squads, they tend to only talk about really specific examples of sh*tty squads (e.g. HWKs with no turrets, Munitions Failsafe on ships without munitions, etc.)

Instead, I'd like to gather a list of broader advice on how to build a bad squad. Or, to put it another way, what NOT to do when trying to build a good one. Here's some examples of what I mean:

• Put stress-inducing upgrades on a ship with very few green maneuvers (Yes, R3-A2 on BTL Y-Wings is a counter-example to this).
• Give a ship too many options for what to do with its action, without any way to get multiple actions per turn.
• Make one ship massively more threatening than the rest of your list, without giving it enough defenses to survive the obvious focused fire it's going to take.
• Fill out those last 12 - 16 leftover points with weak upgrades (especially missiles/torpedoes without a plan to make them useful) instead of adding a filler ship or rebuilding your list.
• Build around a combo of support abilities that only works when all of your pilots are still alive.

None of these are really absolutes; I'm sure you could come up with a decent counter-example list for each of them. Still, I hope they get the idea across.

What are your best tips for building a terrible squad?

1. Design ships to do something other than deal damage.

2. Choose ships with very different dials and give them range 1 synergy abilities

3. Fill every upgrade slot because you can.

4. Avoid using the same pilot skill when possible, further plan to place high pilot skill ships in front of low skill ships.

5. Place redundant upgrades on ships. (Blount with munitions fail safe, Vessery w predator, alpha squadron w engine upgrade.)

6. Make room for a filler ship, cutting key upgrades to do so. (Give that 12 point bandit to your opponents MoV )

7. Run debris fields in a squad that hates stress.

8. Only build internet combinations, there's nothing else out there

Gut reaction to the question is to build a squad starting with Winged Gundark.

- Or -

Use the recommended lists that FFG posts in their reveal articles.

Put ships that are highly offensively oriented in the same squad with ships that are highly defensively oriented.

Put ships that are highly offensively oriented in the same squad with ships that are highly defensively oriented.

Nope I use that as a winning strategy.

How to build a bad squad? Start by taking out your Rebel ships...

Put ships that are highly offensively oriented in the same squad with ships that are highly defensively oriented.

Nope I use that as a winning strategy.

So why don't your opponents kill your offensive ships first? How do your defensive ships carry the list when its teeth have been pulled?

Build a list that hopes to survive by relying on green dice.

If you try to build a bad squad while avoiding obvious trash like sticking EU on Interceptors and TC on rebel ships ...

I'll think you will end up with an average list which is capable to win games actually, if not flown completely mindless.

OK

here is a start:

4 x Saber + Opportunist

You can't win with such a list you say? Because its really BAD. Well, consider this:

I tried it once and my opponent had Jonus + Sabers in this game.

Which was bad for him because naturally, Tie Bombers with missiles want to target lock. This is what this guy did, at least with the Scimitars. So I had the opportunity to use Opportunity at will and destroyed a bomber and crippled another one. Two rounds later he had only Jonus lelft and called it a game, while one of my Sabers lost 2 hull I think. I had pretty good rolls in the first round of combat, though.

What I intended to say is, bad lists are often unexpected or underrated or both by opponents, and if flown well you could be successful.

• Put stress-inducing upgrades on a ship with very few green maneuvers (Yes, R3-A2 on BTL Y-Wings is a counter-example to this).

It's a counter-example because the guideline is incomplete. It'd be more along the lines of "Put stress-inducing upgrades on a ship with very few green maneuvers if that ship will need to execute those maneuvers in order to remain effective" Stresshog doesn't care about greens because not being able to perform actions doesn't meaningfully impair its functionality.

But that's not as pithy.

How to build a bad squad? Start by taking out your Rebel ships...

Aye, their only good ships are the capitals, namely the GR-75.

Kyle Katarn instead of Recon Specialist on Moldy Crows. I understand that Kyle works if you bump or asteroid or whatever, but so do the 100 focus tokens you already would have banked with Recon Specialist and you wouldn't have been tied to greens the turns before.

Having Predator and FCS on your IG simultaneously. Using Manglers instead of HLC's on your IG's.

Pilot Bossk with Mercenary Copilot instead of just Calculation.

Scum Kath with HLC. Seems like a waste of points.

Flying your Firesprays in such a way that they have to 2 hard turn in one of the corners and present their flank to pursuers instead of K-Turning the turn before.

Making Super Ships out of Y-Wings and B-Wings. However hilariously mobile and deadly Keyan is with PtL advanced sensors engine upgrade, it's not worth it haha.

A-Wing aces with a ton of expensive upgrades on them. At the end of the day you still only have 2 attack dice. Slap Autothrusters and Intimidation on Arvel and call it a day.

Another one:

4 x Black Sun Enforcer

StarVipers NEED ATs in competitive environments.

So for tournaments, this list is to be considered a bad list.

But in the end, its just average. I went 3:3 with this in Regionals. Just what I expected.

Because nobody I have encountered was prepared to face this list.

Even the good players had troubles to plan ahead at the beginning of the game.

I lost against turret lists and without AT I see no chance against actual TLT spam lists.

So right now, 4 x Black Sun Enforcer is an even worse choice.

I bet 4 x Sigma would lead to similar average results.

1. Knock defenders. u lose

Add "Whimper" to your list and don't add Veteran Instincts.

Put ships that are highly offensively oriented in the same squad with ships that are highly defensively oriented.

Nope I use that as a winning strategy.

So why don't your opponents kill your offensive ships first? How do your defensive ships carry the list when its teeth have been pulled?

Why? Because I'm an experienced wargamer who uses tactics and positioning to my advantage as I'm sure you do too. I can take a fully offensive list and either I or my opponent will be wiped by turn 7, or else I can take a fully defensive list and fight for a time victory (which is now much more viable). Or I can take turrets and laugh.

Make any kind of list and just fly out of map

And don´t forget the gunner on turret-less HWKs

Hehe, you can also just concede.

I think adding things that do nothing can just be made a generalization to an inefficient list. as can "fat everything".

Once you accept these generalizations it's hard to make a truly terrible list.

Another generalization - ships missing key upgrades. HWKS and Y-wings being notable examples with their turrets.

Maybe X-wings without some kind of astro?

Arguably Soontir without PTL / Autothrusters, interceptors without autothrusters in general.

Blount without a missile seems like a waste.

Another generalization: non synergic use of units that are designed around synergy. Examples: Flying biggs leading a Z-95 swarm, Howlrunner with lone wolf, jonas in a group with no secondaries. I'd also fit Kavil in a BTLA4 here, as the upgrades negate his strongest advantage. Unless you are just taking him for EPT.

Yes, R3-A2 on BTL Y-Wings is a counter-example to this.

Strictly speaking, all Y-wings are BTLs. The two types of Y-wing are BTL-A4 (one pilot, turret locked forward and fire linked) and BTL-S3 (has a turret gunner).

Not paying attention to Pilot Skill and EPT interactions. For example, Bodyguard on your highest skilled pilot, or Squad Leader on a lower PS pilot. Also interactions with Decoy and Swarm Tactics to some degree, although those can be used either way.

Also not paying attention to spatial awareness. Lone Wolf may be great, but probably not in a 5 ship list

Yes, R3-A2 on BTL Y-Wings is a counter-example to this.

Strictly speaking, all Y-wings are BTLs. The two types of Y-wing are BTL-A4 (one pilot, turret locked forward and fire linked) and BTL-S3 (has a turret gunner).

BTL-B would be TLT, Bomb load out and/or extra munitions (and some torp instead of bomb then). That's a fair approximation of the Clone Wars Y-wing, if we assume the TLT is like a bubble canopy like on the K-wing.

We see a lot of advice around here on how to build good squads, both specific examples and general tips. However, whenever people talk about really bad squads, they tend to only talk about really specific examples of sh*tty squads (e.g. HWKs with no turrets, Munitions Failsafe on ships without munitions, etc.)

Instead, I'd like to gather a list of broader advice on how to build a bad squad. Or, to put it another way, what NOT to do when trying to build a good one. Here's some examples of what I mean:

• Put stress-inducing upgrades on a ship with very few green maneuvers (Yes, R3-A2 on BTL Y-Wings is a counter-example to this).
• Give a ship too many options for what to do with its action, without any way to get multiple actions per turn.
• Make one ship massively more threatening than the rest of your list, without giving it enough defenses to survive the obvious focused fire it's going to take.
• Fill out those last 12 - 16 leftover points with weak upgrades (especially missiles/torpedoes without a plan to make them useful) instead of adding a filler ship or rebuilding your list.
• Build around a combo of support abilities that only works when all of your pilots are still alive.

None of these are really absolutes; I'm sure you could come up with a decent counter-example list for each of them. Still, I hope they get the idea across.

What are your best tips for building a terrible squad?

You've gotten at a lot of my "pet peeves" and early mistakes. In particular, something I'm starting to see creep back into a lot of players' lists is upgrades without a particular purpose. Upgrades are in the game for good now (unlike, say, the early Wave 3 metagame), and that's great, but you still need to know why you're putting that upgrade there. If you can't answer that question, you'd be better off skipping the upgrade.

In a recent game, I faced off against an opponent who had Luke/Biggs/Wedge, all with Shield Upgrades. I didn't spend a lot of time and effort trying to persuade him--he was pretty confident in his choices, so I decided beating him was probably the most conclusive statement I could make. He did ask afterward what I thought about his list, and I told him honestly that I thought a Z-95 would have been a better investment--it's more 4 extra hit points instead of 3, and unlike the Shield Upgrades it can shoot back!

***

On a more general level than specific mistakes, though, I'd say the best way to build a bad list is to build any list without knowing how it's going to win. Picture how it's going to perform against some lists you know it might face, whether that's based on tournament results or seeing your regular opponents play or even your own preferences. Ask yourself, realistically, what your best options for deployment are, how it's going to make it through the muddled, collision-prone mid game, and how it's going to close out a difficult opponent.

It's okay to get those answers wrong, of course. That's just gaining experience, and that's fine. But again, I find if I can't answer those questions at all, that's a good indication that the list isn't fully cooked yet, and I need to clear off my drawing board and start again.

Any list without at least one tie defender is a bad list.