Not that this list I made here is optimal.. but something like this --

http://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Scum%20and%20Villainy&d=v3!s!109:18,44,110,-1,-1,108:20:15:;110:18,44,110,-1,-1,108:20:15:

Wouldn't the TLT swarms have a really difficult time doing any kind of damage? Seems like a hard counter that should be putting them down?

Thoughts?

Back in my day it wasn't a Swarm unless it had 7 or 8 ships... **** kids and their 2 ship meta!

Theoretically, yes. But then you lose so much offense from not having FCS that you now lose to Soontir Fel.

Back in my day it wasn't a Swarm unless it had 7 or 8 ships... **** kids and their 2 ship meta!

My favorite special snowflakes are the "I'm flying 4 ships, this is a swarm" crowd...

It absolutely would wreck 4xTLT, the question is if the loss of offense and points increase compared to FCS would be worth it vs everything else. With 8 HP, Autothrusters, AGI 3, and Boost, Aggressors are already pretty well set up against TLTs.

Not that this list I made here is optimal.. but something like this --

http://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Scum%20and%20Villainy&d=v3!s!109:18,44,110,-1,-1,108:20:15:;110:18,44,110,-1,-1,108:20:15:

{(pasted to make life easy)}

IG-88B (36)

Push the Limit (3)

Sensor Jammer (4)

"Mangler" Cannon (4)

Inertial Dampeners (1)

Autothrusters (2)

IG-2000 (0)

IG-88C (36)

Push the Limit (3)

Sensor Jammer (4)

"Mangler" Cannon (4)

Inertial Dampeners (1)

Autothrusters (2)

IG-2000 (0)

Total: 100

I like it but I'd tweak it a bit. Personal experience has led me to leave PtL in the box unless I'm running Advanced Sensors, since it becomes easier to block a stressed Aggressor. B/C is solid, nothing wrong with that. I'd personally drop PtL to VI, drop the Dampeners (again, Sensors are more useful for that upgrade) and slap HLCs on both instead of the Manglers. I find IG-88B to be kind of a trap unless you're running HLCs, but that might just be me. The SJ/ATs combo is brutal on any turret though, which is great.

I would think shifting to a asymmetrical setup will greatly enhance the Brobots lifespan in the new meta. Kit one of them out to survive indefinitely against swarms and TLTs, and the other as a High-PS hunter killer that can out damage an ace's survivability, and make it to where if one eats it against the thing the other counters, the other can finish the game. Something like this:

What about using Determination as an ept? Prevents you from losing the pilot abilities when taking pilot crits?

I would think shifting to a asymmetrical setup will greatly enhance the Brobots lifespan in the new meta. Kit one of them out to survive indefinitely against swarms and TLTs, and the other as a High-PS hunter killer that can out damage an ace's survivability, and make it to where if one eats it against the thing the other counters, the other can finish the game. Something like this:

IG-88B (36) 49 total

Veteran Instincts (1)

Heavy Laser Cannon (7)

Fire Control System (2)

Inertial Dampeners (1)

Autothrusters (2)

IG-2000 (0)

IG-88C (36) 50 total

Predator (3)

Sensor Jammer (4)

"Mangler" Cannon (4)

Inertial Dampeners (1)

Autothrusters (2)

IG-2000 (0)

99 points total, B is perfectly set to take on PS 8 evasive regenerating targets, and stands a good chance against Soontir if he can be caught off guard or bumped with C, especially while C is up to give him an evade for the 1v1 head to head. C should single-handedly eliminate a swarm or TLT-spam list, especially while B is up to give him the gunner effect to mitigate terrible dice. The early loss of the Anti-Ace IG doesn't stop the Anti-Swarm IG from stomping the swarms, and vice-versa.

Not a fan of asymmetrical IG lists myself because I'd rather have the two ships be interchangeable when manoeuvring. Any time I lost VI on one of them, suddenly activation is a major pain. Otherwise I quite like the idea here, although I'd swap the cannons (forces a tougher decision of who to target first, whereas here B is the clear target being both the bigger gun and the Gunner ability). Also possibly Outmanoeuvre on IGC to really wreck TLTs and dismiss Threepio, but again that's personal preference.

What about using Determination as an ept? Prevents you from losing the pilot abilities when taking pilot crits?

Not an issue with the new damage deck. Not bad for a point but IG-88 wants something to boost damage since there's only two of him.

Yup. Losing out on offensive firepower is the biggest problem vs. tackling TLT spam.

Huge fan of Outmaneuver here. I especially like it with D's Segnor's Loop. I think over the course of a game, Outmaneuver is worth the three points, especially if you have the kit to get out of arc. IG-88 has that kit, in my opinion.

I like the asymmetrical build posted above. I might drop Predator for Outmaneuver, but it is a toss-up. One thing, though, is that if you plan for C to rush while B stays back, it eliminates some of the problems with differimg Pilot Skills.

Has anyone tried Triple Sigma against TLT? I feel like it could be really good, but that 2s 2h maybe just makes it too dicey to take, especially when you are depending on green dice so heavily. And, it probably just loses against anything else... Either way, thoughts on this list?

Not a fan of asymmetrical IG lists myself because I'd rather have the two ships be interchangeable when manoeuvring. Any time I lost VI on one of them, suddenly activation is a major pain. Otherwise I quite like the idea here, although I'd swap the cannons (forces a tougher decision of who to target first, whereas here B is the clear target being both the bigger gun and the Gunner ability). Also possibly Outmanoeuvre on IGC to really wreck TLTs and dismiss Threepio, but again that's personal preference.

The alternative I was tossing around was lone wolf on B to make him a bit tankier, but I like VI better, with the 99 point bid for init, to out-maneuver Corran/Poe/Luke/Juno/Echo and blast them out of the sky. Normally I agree with the swapping the cannons for targeting priority, but this list is designed to counter two separate list archtypes with a single half of the list. If I put HLC on C and lose B, C won't be able to punch through Soontir with one shot. If I give mangler to B and lose C, the mangler may also not be able to punch through Soontir even with Gunner. Keeping Mangler on C lets him deal relatively frequent crits to the common low-agi targets he is designed to counter, while giving the HLC to B lets his damage keep up with his AGI targets. It also has the stealth benefit of keeping both ships at half the list's points or less, instead of making C the obvious target due to bloat.

If you are gunning for 4xTLT lists this is the way to go:

If you are gunning for 4xTLT lists this is the way to go:

IG-88B (36)

Predator (3)

Sensor Jammer (4)

"Mangler" Cannon (4)

Inertial Dampeners (1)

Autothrusters (2)

IG-2000 (0)

IG-88C (36)

Predator (3)

Sensor Jammer (4)

"Mangler" Cannon (4)

Inertial Dampeners (1)

Autothrusters (2)

IG-2000 (0)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

I agree, but Vader, Soontir, and Juno should tear your list apart with relative ease, as would Corran + Poe, really any dodgy high PS list. That's why I went with asymmetrical bots

The alternative I was tossing around was lone wolf on B to make him a bit tankier, but I like VI better, with the 99 point bid for init, to out-maneuver Corran/Poe/Luke/Juno/Echo and blast them out of the sky. Normally I agree with the swapping the cannons for targeting priority, but this list is designed to counter two separate list archtypes with a single half of the list. If I put HLC on C and lose B, C won't be able to punch through Soontir with one shot. If I give mangler to B and lose C, the mangler may also not be able to punch through Soontir even with Gunner. Keeping Mangler on C lets him deal relatively frequent crits to the common low-agi targets he is designed to counter, while giving the HLC to B lets his damage keep up with his AGI targets. It also has the stealth benefit of keeping both ships at half the list's points or less, instead of making C the obvious target due to bloat.

That all seems pretty sound to me! VI/HLC/FCS/ATs is my personal favourite IG-88B build, usually with Feedback Array to crush the hopes and dreams of small arc dodgers. IDs also become quite useful at PS8 with the FCS combo.

Has anyone tried Triple Sigma against TLT? I feel like it could be really good, but that 2s 2h maybe just makes it too dicey to take, especially when you are depending on green dice so heavily. And, it probably just loses against anything else... Either way, thoughts on this list?

Sigma Squadron Pilot (25) 34 total

Sensor Jammer (4)

Recon Specialist (3)

Stygium Particle Accelerator (2)

Sigma Squadron Pilot (25) 34 total

Sensor Jammer (4)

Recon Specialist (3)

Stygium Particle Accelerator (2)

Sigma Squadron Pilot (25) 32 total

Sensor Jammer (4)

Intelligence Agent (1)

Stygium Particle Accelerator (2)

Speaking as someone who took triple Phantoms to a Regional event this summer....don't do it. TLTs are even more terrifying because of the sheer overwhelming number of blank dice you will see running that build. Your one Evade token or double Focus won't save you. A Shadow with ACD, Rec Spec, and FCS or SJ is a great TLT combatant but for the love of all that is good and beautiful left in the world, don't put yourself through that. It isn't worth it. You deserve better.

Has anyone tried Triple Sigma against TLT? I feel like it could be really good, but that 2s 2h maybe just makes it too dicey to take, especially when you are depending on green dice so heavily. And, it probably just loses against anything else... Either way, thoughts on this list?

It's overkill. In my experience a single Phantom with Sensor Jammer + Advanced Cloaking Device can nearly solo a TLT list. So you don't need three, and taking three weakens your list against other threats it needs to be able to handle.

I would think shifting to a asymmetrical setup will greatly enhance the Brobots lifespan in the new meta.

I've been thinking about this for a long time, but I feel like I've found myself saying it a lot in the last month or so: diversifying your list is always a good idea, even if you're running Brobots. If you have a hard counter to X, running twice as many of that hard counter usually isn't necessary--and, just like Triple Sigmas, it means you're in trouble if your opponent didn't bring any X but did bring a YZ hybrid.

Specializing one IG-88 to deal with TLTs is a good idea. (Or at least it's possibly a good idea, although I agree with someone upthread that 3 Agility and Autothrusters and good maneuvering with decent action economy all work against TLTs anyway.) But specializing both of them against TLT isn't a good idea, so go ahead and make the second Bot do something else--even if that means your IG-88s aren't identical twins anymore.

Vorpal, I think you have a point. I've been diversifying all of my other lists to run the TLT/PWT/arc dodger gamut, Brobots shouldn't be any different. I'll have to try it out when I can.

Although with all the AGI1-2 ships floating around right now, I'm starting to look less at B and more at C/D since even a poor roll on an HLC might very well be getting through. A isn't as bad as his reputation, especially now that 2-ship lists are arguably in for a solid decline.

Push the Limit and Advanced Sensors on C/D could be just what I'm after. Hmm...

Not that this list I made here is optimal.. but something like this --

http://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Scum%20and%20Villainy&d=v3!s!109:18,44,110,-1,-1,108:20:15:;110:18,44,110,-1,-1,108:20:15:

Wouldn't the TLT swarms have a really difficult time doing any kind of damage? Seems like a hard counter that should be putting them down?

Thoughts?

Yes.

Back in my day it wasn't a Swarm unless it had 7 or 8 ships... **** kids and their 2 ship meta!

Back in my day it wasn't a Swarm unless it had 7 or 8 ships... **** kids and their 2 ship meta!

My favorite special snowflakes are the "I'm flying 4 ships, this is a swarm" crowd...

What they said. Just because a list has more than 2 ships does not mean it's a swarm. 6 is the minimum, and even then I'm a bit hesitant to call 6 a swarm because against a 2 ship list you autolose one of them right off the bat.

The problem with considering 4 ship lists swarms is that people have this (incorrect) idea that swarms do real well against turrets when in reality it's a coin flip or 60/40 at best. So when you have people calling 4 Phantoms,"The Sigma Swarm" that's an issue because you're not actually flying something that fills the swarm role and (supposedly) counters turrets.

I would think shifting to a asymmetrical setup will greatly enhance the Brobots lifespan in the new meta. Kit one of them out to survive indefinitely against swarms and TLTs, and the other as a High-PS hunter killer that can out damage an ace's survivability, and make it to where if one eats it against the thing the other counters, the other can finish the game. Something like this:

IG-88B (36) 49 total

Veteran Instincts (1)

Heavy Laser Cannon (7)

Fire Control System (2)

Inertial Dampeners (1)

Autothrusters (2)

IG-2000 (0)

IG-88C (36) 50 total

Predator (3)

Sensor Jammer (4)

"Mangler" Cannon (4)

Inertial Dampeners (1)

Autothrusters (2)

IG-2000 (0)

99 points total, B is perfectly set to take on PS 8 evasive regenerating targets, and stands a good chance against Soontir if he can be caught off guard or bumped with C, especially while C is up to give him an evade for the 1v1 head to head. C should single-handedly eliminate a swarm or TLT-spam list, especially while B is up to give him the gunner effect to mitigate terrible dice. The early loss of the Anti-Ace IG doesn't stop the Anti-Swarm IG from stomping the swarms, and vice-versa.

I think this is the best idea of the thread. Now I wonder if its good enough to prevent full 4 TLT lists from existing for long?

Well right now with a meta that is high PS and the new damage deck that is anti-generic pilots, just about anything can kill swarm.

Having played and beat a 4 Y TLT list with Asym, SJ Brobots, I can tell you that it doesn't mutilate it, but it definitely wins. I ran this version: http://xwing-builder.co.uk/view/324052/asym-brobots-2-defensive. It works well against the Ys, but Sensor Jammer is much less appealing if your opponent runs a 4 HWK w/ Recon Spec TLT list. (Or Super Fel, or PTL Jake, or Poe...etc)

yeah, Sensor Jammer/AT bots do quite well. I run them with HLC, leaving me one whole point for an EPT/Illicit. Vet Instincts is okay, but I'm going to try out Wired this week, since the ships are stressing themselves half the time anyway.

Well right now with a meta that is high PS and the new damage deck that is anti-generic pilots...

What are you talking about?

I would think shifting to a asymmetrical setup will greatly enhance the Brobots lifespan in the new meta. Kit one of them out to survive indefinitely against swarms and TLTs, and the other as a High-PS hunter killer that can out damage an ace's survivability, and make it to where if one eats it against the thing the other counters, the other can finish the game. Something like this:

IG-88B (36) 49 total

Veteran Instincts (1)

Heavy Laser Cannon (7)

Fire Control System (2)

Inertial Dampeners (1)

Autothrusters (2)

IG-2000 (0)

IG-88C (36) 50 total

Predator (3)

Sensor Jammer (4)

"Mangler" Cannon (4)

Inertial Dampeners (1)

Autothrusters (2)

IG-2000 (0)

99 points total, B is perfectly set to take on PS 8 evasive regenerating targets, and stands a good chance against Soontir if he can be caught off guard or bumped with C, especially while C is up to give him an evade for the 1v1 head to head. C should single-handedly eliminate a swarm or TLT-spam list, especially while B is up to give him the gunner effect to mitigate terrible dice. The early loss of the Anti-Ace IG doesn't stop the Anti-Swarm IG from stomping the swarms, and vice-versa.

I think this is the best idea of the thread. Now I wonder if its good enough to prevent full 4 TLT lists from existing for long?

I've been quite happy with my 2 TLT and ace hybrid list