Cursed Dice killed my End Boss!

By Desslok, in Star Wars: Edge of the Empire RPG

For the last three weeks, the players have been dealing with a Mandolorian invasion on their home-world, running around doing guerrilla tactics harassing the enemy, with an end game of eventually having the Marauder challenging the Mando War Chief one-on-one for the planet.

(Side note, anyone who says that Jedi are too powerful are fool. REAL power is a properly built Marauder)

Anticipating this awesome, epic showdown that will shake the heavens, I build a Heavy for an end boss and give her a XV Sidewinder and some tricked out armor. Loads and loads of stats and talents, plenty of ranks of Nemesis - this is going to be a tough nut to crack.

And then my dice utterly fail me. She can't land a blow, every tactic she tries is betrayed by the game engine and she's getting pounded on by my Marauder. Finally things turn around towards by round 4 or so, but by then the damage is done. She's bleeding out a wound a turn, she can barely hobble around - she's quite a mess.

I suppose in the end, it was a good thing my dice fell the way they did, because the Marauder was barely standing at the end, a couple blows in the Mando's favor and the fight would have gone differently.

And yes, I know it's not suppose to be GM vs player - but it's mildly annoying (and funny) when my badass Mando is tripping over her own feet. Ah well, the fight was epic and everyone had a blast - so that's all that mattered.

Had a similar situation a few weeks ago. An assassin with a sniper rifle was supposed to draw the group's Heavy into a protracted sniper battle, while the rest of the PCs were meant to shepherd the target to safety, dodging the assassin's apprentice.

They surprised me by holding position and providing covering fire to get the Heavy closer. When he closed to Melee range, the assassin booked it, and they had a foot chase. It ended with a vibroknife fight that sheared off the Heavy's arm (he's a droid) but left the assassin unconscious and near death. I didn't even have time to implement the apprentice.

The thing is, my players talk about it as one of the best sessions ever, and one of the most epic fights. I think we as GMs build up a much bigger scene in our heads and get underwhelmed by the reality, but for the players -- who haven't thought through the encounter a dozen times already -- it's fresh and exciting. The Heavy was also close to collapse by the end, avoiding maxing out his thresholds by two wounds and one strain.

A reminder that dice can be ficle, even for the DM.

Probably also the reason why in old school rpg's the GM was allowed to roll the dice behind his screen. But that's a bit of a cop-out.

Edited by Robin Graves

but it's mildly annoying (and funny) when my badass Mando is tripping over her own feet.

That seems to be a defining characteristic of Mandalorians. They look awesome, they are awesome, and then one moment they go out like a punk! Remember how Boba "dies" in ROTJ? Knocked into a the sarlacc pit by an unarmed half-blind Han Solo.

That seems to be a defining characteristic of Mandalorians. They look awesome, they are awesome, and then one moment they go out like a punk! Remember how Boba "dies" in ROTJ? Knocked into a the sarlacc pit by an unarmed half-blind Han Solo.

Or how Jango is unceremoniously beheaded by Mace Windu in AotC? Which surprises even Master Windu?

One thing I always do with my "big Bads" that I don't generally want to get killed, is plan for a time and a Way out.... no just try to make them tough or nearly unbeatable.

I don't fudge dice or cheese a way, just plan for it, the dice could still go against me.

when I say a time and a way out, I mean I judge how "self preserving" will the boss be. If a blow is landed at all? will he reconsider the threat of the Pcs and Flee? If he is a 3/4s health? or perhaps 1/2 health?

I only don't plan for a way out when I have reached the Decided End for the Pc's to ultimately defeat the Boss..

That seems to be a defining characteristic of Mandalorians. They look awesome, they are awesome, and then one moment they go out like a punk! Remember how Boba "dies" in ROTJ? Knocked into a the sarlacc pit by an unarmed half-blind Han Solo.

Or how Jango is unceremoniously beheaded by Mace Windu in AotC? Which surprises even Master Windu?

I just watched Attack of the Clones in the night from sunday to monday to stay awake for the lunar eclipse, and what realy wonders me in this scene: Why the hell does the head not fall out of the helmet when Boba holds it in his hands??

Back to topic: as good as epic fights are, sometimes in fights and wars someone realy good has just realy bad luck. Jango get cought in a bad situation when he missjudged the fight, Boba did just receive a "lucky punsh". Such things happen: In WW2 the Hood, a british battleship got a hit direct in its ammunition dump, few days later the Bismarck, a german battleship, got a torpedo hit exactly in its rudder, making it unmaneuverable, probably the only spot the turpedo could do real harm.

Who knows, how many unbelievable important people got hit from a car, just before they would have done something incredible important. Or how many people just played Dota2 instead of doing something important^^

That seems to be a defining characteristic of Mandalorians. They look awesome, they are awesome, and then one moment they go out like a punk! Remember how Boba "dies" in ROTJ? Knocked into a the sarlacc pit by an unarmed half-blind Han Solo.

Or how Jango is unceremoniously beheaded by Mace Windu in AotC? Which surprises even Master Windu?

yeah! Altough that could have something to do with Mace being played by Sam Jackson. ;)

I feel your pain. I've had fights where the Big Bad rolled nothing but double failures on every red and purple die in his pool. Every round.

Edited by Krieger22

Probably also the reason why in old school rpg's the GM was allowed to roll the dice behind his screen. But that's a bit of a cop-out.

More importantly it undermines the most important aspect of the game - EVERYone comes up with interpretations for the rolls, both good and bad. Its tough for the players to do that if they are denied access to the end result.

One thing I always do with my "big Bads" that I don't generally want to get killed, is plan for a time and a Way out.... no just try to make them tough or nearly unbeatable.

At least in this instance, I was totally intending on my End Boss losing - defeating her in a 1-on-1 challenge was key to getting the Mandos off the planet - but I was hoping for a better showing from her than stinking up the room with three rounds of failure. So no, I didn't build a trap door into her plans for escape.

Edited by Desslok

I just watched Attack of the Clones in the night from sunday to monday to stay awake for the lunar eclipse, and what realy wonders me in this scene: Why the hell does the head not fall out of the helmet when Boba holds it in his hands??

Oh, you kids and your “reality” that you bring into such discussions. ;)

I think maybe the head didn't fall out because that would be too gruesome? Considering Jar Jar paved the way for very young children to love the prequels I think a head dropping out would be a little intense for them. That's the only way I can now justify the quandary you guys have discovered :)

Another reason for cranial retention could be the fact that Mandalorian armor is supposed to be vac-sealed and helmets are supposed to seal to a ring around the neck. It's possible that the pressure differential between the helmet and the skull was sufficient to ensure its retention post removal.

Lots of big words meaning it was already sealed in there by the armor.

The dice giveth and the dice taketh away.

That said, some of the most epic moments in my gaming "career" rest on key rolls at made critical moments.

The dice add their own tension and drama to the story.

That is rooted in 1) knowing when to roll (or not to roll), and 2) letting the rolls stand when you do.

Sometimes your big bad will go down like a chump.

But, sometimes a mook / minion becomes elevated due to rolls and needs a rebuild to meet his new status.

We have a storm-trooper in our game who is now a nemesis level character.

He owes it to the dice and GM staging

That seems to be a defining characteristic of Mandalorians. They look awesome, they are awesome, and then one moment they go out like a punk! Remember how Boba "dies" in ROTJ? Knocked into a the sarlacc pit by an unarmed half-blind Han Solo.

Or how Jango is unceremoniously beheaded by Mace Windu in AotC? Which surprises even Master Windu?

I just watched Attack of the Clones in the night from sunday to monday to stay awake for the lunar eclipse, and what realy wonders me in this scene: Why the hell does the head not fall out of the helmet when Boba holds it in his hands??

I believe you can see the shadow of Jango's head falling out of the helmet as they both fall to the ground...so Boba is holding his father's helmet sans head in his hands...

I dont try to make detailed out fights or tricked out bad guys any more simply cause my characters are guaranteed to do something I didnt think of (in the case of the fight) or the rolls will betray me (in case of the big bad)

I've never had a finale session - in any system - replicate the sort of long, drawn-out action sequence of a final boss battle in a film. RPGs are a completely different animal from literature and film.

If you want a crescendo build-up, you have to do that over the course of a campaign, not in one set-piece fight sequence.

I just watched Attack of the Clones in the night from sunday to monday to stay awake for the lunar eclipse, and what realy wonders me in this scene: Why the hell does the head not fall out of the helmet when Boba holds it in his hands??

Oh, you kids and your “reality” that you bring into such discussions. ;)

Why didn't his head fall out? Chin strap, obviously!

I've never had a finale session - in any system - replicate the sort of long, drawn-out action sequence of a final boss battle in a film. RPGs are a completely different animal from literature and film.

If you want a crescendo build-up, you have to do that over the course of a campaign, not in one set-piece fight sequence.

We had been building towards this - this was week three of of a multi-part story arc that had been pretty epic thusfar.
And I have no problem with a fight only lasting 4 or 5 rounds - when I narrated out the Lightsaber fights over in the FaD forums, I found that your average duel in the movies lasted under 6 rounds. So no, I wasn't interested in both parties throwing large amounts of dice back and forth all evening long.
I was just lamenting the fact that my Epic Showdown was totally up to the whims of fate, and The Lady was taking a dump all over my dice.
Edited by Desslok

I've never had a finale session - in any system - replicate the sort of long, drawn-out action sequence of a final boss battle in a film. RPGs are a completely different animal from literature and film.

If you want a crescendo build-up, you have to do that over the course of a campaign, not in one set-piece fight sequence.

I've staged very successful epic final battles.

Its not about how the dice play out, but how you build up to it, set the stage, and make the stakes felt.

Also, some systems are more predictable than others in terms of how rolls play out.

And, some genres lead themselves to them better than others.

You most certainly can do big brawls, decisive fights, and battle finales in RPGs.

The key is "prior planning prevents poor performance."

And, relying on a single big bad to step in and go toe to toe without minions and backups almost never works.

The medium does have limitations you have to compensate for.

The best success I've ever had in drawn out fights between parties and BBEGs was phases and chases. Initial combat with the mooks while the BBEG watches, BBEG fights defensively to move to a trapped room, BBEG triggers trap and party deals with trap, BBEG flees with party in pursuit, BBEG cornered and fights to the death...

And, relying on a single big bad to step in and go toe to toe without minions and backups almost never works.

The medium does have limitations you have to compensate for.

If this were a normal, Everyone Fight! fight, I would have thrown some minions and rivals in the mix. But in this instance at least, I wasn't concerned about 4 PCs overpowering 1 NPC.

That seems to be a defining characteristic of Mandalorians. They look awesome, they are awesome, and then one moment they go out like a punk! Remember how Boba "dies" in ROTJ? Knocked into a the sarlacc pit by an unarmed half-blind Han Solo.

Or how Jango is unceremoniously beheaded by Mace Windu in AotC? Which surprises even Master Windu?

This is another reason why the prequels don't exist to me. :)

And, relying on a single big bad to step in and go toe to toe without minions and backups almost never works.

The medium does have limitations you have to compensate for.

If this were a normal, Everyone Fight! fight, I would have thrown some minions and rivals in the mix. But in this instance at least, I wasn't concerned about 4 PCs overpowering 1 NPC.

Also getting (honorable) 1 on 1 duels might not always happen as your players decide it makes tactically more sense to shoot the sith lord in the back while he's having alight saber duel with a pc aspiring jedi.

I totally think that Mandos are some of the most overstated warriors in the galaxy. Sure they are professional soldiers but when it comes down to it, they are still are guns for Hire and in a battlefield the unexpected will happen.

It's like how all the Jedi died on that arena in a stupidly disadvantagous battle and how they were all shot in the back at the end of the war. Even the mightest of those can't chose how they will fall. People meet untimely ends in the worst ways, out of the entire cast that was introduced in the prequil era, only a select few survived and at least as far as the movies go, the only survivors were of no surprise at all (Obi and Yoda.)

Edited by Lordbiscuit

Also getting (honorable) 1 on 1 duels might not always happen as your players decide it makes tactically more sense to shoot the sith lord in the back while he's having alight saber duel with a pc aspiring jedi.

Agreed - my players are usually smarter than that, sniping them instead of calling someone out. But in this instance, it was a case of "If I beat you, then I am strong enough to make you do what I say and you get the hell off my planet and take your men with you". Besides, it was the cinematic thing to do instead if the tactically strong thing to do - and my players know that I would never punish them for doing the Cool Cinematic Thing.

I totally think that Mandos are some of the most overstated warriors in the galaxy. Sure they are professional soldiers but when it comes down to it, they are still are guns for Hire and in a battlefield the unexpected will happen.

Agreed - which is why, for the most part, I just used Stormtrooper minions re-skinned as Mandos with some occasional Mid-Range bounty hunter rivals in the mix for a bit of a challenge. It was just the End Boss that was badassed. And she was badassed not because she was Mando, but because she was the End Boss. She could have been the head chief from the Waffle Hutt and I still would have dialed her skills through the roof.

Edited by Desslok