I think you need to wait for that new sensor slot to be spoiled to decide that Ghost melts when you meet it head on.

I said melts you. It's a 4 dice ship. If you charge that thing while in its firing arc, you're in trouble.

. The Advanced and the Adv. Prototype are both excellent 2 attack die ships.

I just about spit milk out of my nose when reading that.

The Advil is most definitely NOT an excellent ship. The Inquisitor has a solid ability, but that's it. The Advil looks to cost 17 or 18 for it's cheapest ship, and that makes it WAY overcosted. It is actually WORSE than a TIE/fo Fighter, since a single crit can 1-shot it. We haven't seen it's dial yet, so the dial had better be UN-Freaking-Believable since it's likely not going to be able to take the X1 title. And considering the TIE/FO FIghter has a solid dial already, I seriously doubt that the ADV prototype is going to be able to top it. It's going to need a white K-Turn, S-Loop, or T-Roll in order to justify it's outrageous price.

And I spit milk out my nose when I see someone ragging on a ship they've seen nothing but the statline, the cost of one ace pilot and the action bar of.

If the title is an auto-include, then perhaps they should have simply designed it better so as to not NEED a fix in it's own expansion?

If it comes with the initial blister, it's by definition not a fix for it. A title in the box is how you'd give a ship special rules from the get go.

What, will no one give the poor Wild Space Fringer and Outer Rim Smuggler some love?

The Fringer's okay- but generally if you're taking a pancake you kinda want to max out the value of things like the HLC and barrel roll action through a higher PS bid. These sorts of ships are probably never going to make much sense as generics.

. The Advanced and the Adv. Prototype are both excellent 2 attack die ships.

I just about spit milk out of my nose when reading that.

The Advil is most definitely NOT an excellent ship. The Inquisitor has a solid ability, but that's it. The Advil looks to cost 17 or 18 for it's cheapest ship, and that makes it WAY overcosted.

How do you know the TAP's base cost?

Well, this derailed quickly

Anyway the tie/v1's a great bit of action economy and you'd be dumb not to take it (fix or no)

Add juke and Thrusters = instant place for YAPs that does not cOmpete with FO

. The Advanced and the Adv. Prototype are both excellent 2 attack die ships.

I just about spit milk out of my nose when reading that.

The Advil is most definitely NOT an excellent ship. The Inquisitor has a solid ability, but that's it. The Advil looks to cost 17 or 18 for it's cheapest ship, and that makes it WAY overcosted.

How do you know the TAP's base cost?

There is reasonable suppositions. The Inquisitor is 25pts. So, -6 for PS. The tricky thing is if his ability costs 1 or 2 points. 2 points seems reasonable to me, given how good his ability is. And really, at this point, Autothrusters is worht a point or so to upgrade from the FO. And really, at 20 pts, the PS 2 with the title and Autothrusters makes an interesting option to take.

Because you're not looking at it the right way.

It's not that it needs a "fix", it's that FFG's design methodology can't really build abilities into generic pilot cards (and especially not into the non-free space on unique pilot cards), and so to give a ship-specific ability, they create a title.

I suppose it's cleaner than just adding a new "action" like they did with the K-Wing - but without the title, the TIE Advil seems 2-3 points overcosted, easily. Perhaps more depending on where you draw comparison. I guess it would work better if the ships were all 3 points cheaper, and the title had a cost of 4, instead of 1.

But then they overlap a lot more with the /sfik-off points-wise, and they're still not a better choice unless they go back up to the +title cost, BUT it makes taking them with the title a lot more obvious because some people have awful taste and seeing a swarm of badly-butchered TIEs on the table is going to be bad enough with the /sfik-off in play without having a second TIE for it.

~Why the hell is this thread on about the TAP when it's an ATK2 ship?

I don't think it is the 4 dice but rather the 2 guaranteed results that is the power creep. With items like autothrusters Emperor Palpatine, C-3PO and Accuracy corrector it is not having that 4 dice attack that may roll 2 hits or that 4 dice doge that may roll 2 evades but instead pilot/upgrade combos that guarantee you will get 2 hits or 2 evades no matter what the dice roll. There is your power creep in X-wing and it is real.

I don't think it is the 4 dice but rather the 2 guaranteed results that is the power creep. With items like autothrusters Emperor Palpatine, C-3PO and Accuracy corrector it is not having that 4 dice attack that may roll 2 hits or that 4 dice doge that may roll 2 evades but instead pilot/upgrade combos that guarantee you will get 2 hits or 2 evades no matter what the dice roll. There is your power creep in X-wing and it is real.

I suppose it's cleaner than just adding a new "action" like they did with the K-Wing - but without the title, the TIE Advil seems 2-3 points overcosted, easily. Perhaps more depending on where you draw comparison. I guess it would work better if the ships were all 3 points cheaper, and the title had a cost of 4, instead of 1.

Again, we'd all dearly love to know where you found out the point cost and dial from.

. The Advanced and the Adv. Prototype are both excellent 2 attack die ships.

I just about spit milk out of my nose when reading that.

The Advil is most definitely NOT an excellent ship. The Inquisitor has a solid ability, but that's it. The Advil looks to cost 17 or 18 for it's cheapest ship, and that makes it WAY overcosted.

How do you know the TAP's base cost?

There is reasonable suppositions. The Inquisitor is 25pts. So, -6 for PS. The tricky thing is if his ability costs 1 or 2 points. 2 points seems reasonable to me, given how good his ability is. And really, at this point, Autothrusters is worht a point or so to upgrade from the FO. And really, at 20 pts, the PS 2 with the title and Autothrusters makes an interesting option to take.

One point more gets you an AC equipped tie advanced, you don't get AT but you can take focus or evade without it effecting your damage and you get an additional hull.

At 20 points it's not a good buy, if it's more than 19 with title and AT it'll get ignored I think.

Is Autothrusters that necessary on a <20 point ship? Especially a 2 dicer: they want to be at Range 1 against non-turrets.

Is Autothrusters that necessary on a <20 point ship? Especially a 2 dicer: they want to be at Range 1 against non-turrets.

Well at range one it's entirely possible for Han to one shot a four hull ship, AT plus an evade token helps alot against that.

Same holds true at range three.

If your not taking them for AT then you may as well take a regular tie fighter.

I suppose it's cleaner than just adding a new "action" like they did with the K-Wing - but without the title, the TIE Advil seems 2-3 points overcosted, easily. Perhaps more depending on where you draw comparison. I guess it would work better if the ships were all 3 points cheaper, and the title had a cost of 4, instead of 1.

Again, we'd all dearly love to know where you found out the point cost and dial from.

I haven't seen the dial, but the FIE/FO is cheaper, better, and has a great dial, so I'm assuming the dial will have to at least be better than the TIE/FO's dial in order to justify the cost. If the Advil has a 1 forward, or a green hard 1 turn, for example.... that would help make it more worth the cost. In terms of the cost, we know the inquisitor costs 25, so just subtract points from there. 1 point per pilot skill and probably 1 point for lack of a pilot ability. That's how most other ships work.

But back to 2-attack ships.

Even the TIE Advanced has climbed out of that now. Since you can have an automatic crit, it is better than 3 dice attack, and CAN be better than that even.

I would argue that expose is now a very real option for the TIE Advanced. Easily with Vader, but possible with other pilots as well, if you toss in Experimental interface. The main problem with Expose is that you previously needed to use your action to do it. Well with the new ATC, you don't want to spend your target lock ANYWAY, so once you have a TL on your opponent, you are likely going to leave it there. So that free's up an action. If you need to focus, well that's what the extra action is for. You probably won't expose on the first shot, since that's when you'll get your TL, but the second you certainly might. I did this with vader and was able to roll 4 dice at range 1 and added a crit from the ATC. It's not the perfect solution but it is more viable now than before.

It kinda hit A-Wings too, this power creep. Proton Rockets let an A-Wing make a 5 dice attack relatively easy. Granted it's only once, but I'd almost bet you that before 2017, we'll see a way for A-Wing to fire an additional 5 dice attack.

A tie with a 1 forward...i'd buy that for a dollar!

4 dice? Pfffft.

Behold the POWAH of the SCUM.

Five Is The New Four:

Talonbane Cobra - Predator, Engine Upgrade

Kath Scarlet - Predator

N'dru Suhlak - Lone Wolf, Homing Missile

In terms of the cost, we know the inquisitor costs 25, so just subtract points from there. 1 point per pilot skill and probably 1 point for lack of a pilot ability. That's how most other ships work.

That's how most ships worked in Wave 1. It doesn't make it a bad guess. But Major Rhymer is just one of a large group of counterexamples.

Until FFG makes the cost of the cheapest generic public, it's just not possible to make claims about whether the cheapest generic will be overpriced.

I would argue that expose is now a very real option for the TIE Advanced.

BRB, snorted orange juice on my keyboard.

The main problem with Expose is that you previously needed to use your action to do it.

And it costs 4 points. And it takes up your EPT. And it reduces your Agility.

The problem with Expose is that there's more than just one problem with Expose.

That said for seven points you can make your decimator a 4 attack PWT with a way to modify dice with EI and expose.

The only case where it's of much use though.

Why run expose on a tie adv when a tie phantom gets two more dice and doesn't waste it's action?

A tie with a 1 forward...i'd buy that for a dollar!

Shame it's $15 then

I wouldn't necessarily say that 4 dice is requisite, yet, but I will say that there is much less if a difference between 2 die and 3 die attacks nowadays.

In terms of the cost, we know the inquisitor costs 25, so just subtract points from there. 1 point per pilot skill and probably 1 point for lack of a pilot ability. That's how most other ships work.

That's how most ships worked in Wave 1. It doesn't make it a bad guess. But Major Rhymer is just one of a large group of counterexamples.

Until FFG makes the cost of the cheapest generic public, it's just not possible to make claims about whether the cheapest generic will be overpriced.

I would argue that expose is now a very real option for the TIE Advanced.

BRB, snorted orange juice on my keyboard.

The main problem with Expose is that you previously needed to use your action to do it.

And it costs 4 points. And it takes up your EPT. And it reduces your Agility.

The problem with Expose is that there's more than just one problem with Expose.

I'll totally concede that my claims about the pricing of the TIE Advil are simply educated guesses. But will you concede that in the case of the TIE Advanced, Expose is at least somewhat more viable than it was before the Raider's release?

Why run expose on a tie adv when a tie phantom gets two more dice and doesn't waste it's action?

Good question. And it provokes a follow up question - Should I run expose on a Phantom? For me, it would boil down to pilot ability. My two favorite Advanced pilots are Vader and Juno. Juno is an all around great pilot, with PS 8 and an ability that allows her a wealth of options when moving. She has an advantage when it comes to positioning herself behind an opponent, between barrell rolling and the ability to set her dial to a 2, and change it to a 1 or 3 is she needs to, she is fantastic. Expose on her means that she can possibly end up dodging your arc while having you in arc, and thus, having an extra attack die, so effectively a 5 dice attack at range 1, with one of those dice being a concrete critical. If she was able to move without spending an action to barrell roll, then she can use EI to get an additional action and focus you. In this case she is better than a phantom at range 1. She has a guaranteed crit, she has a higher pilot skill than any phantom, and she has more survivability, so she'll last longer and fire more shots. It's not like she's going to use Expose every round, but when she needs it, it's there.

Vader on the other hand, has even better reasons for taking it. He doesn't need EI, since he's got the free actions built in. That free's him up to take Engine Upgrade, or maybe even the Twin Ion Engine mod, (Which is actually pretty solid on an advanced). Once he has his target lock on you, he's free to both expose and focus - and with PS9 he's shooting first (usually). Obviously if you've got 5 shields and can return fire, he might opt to focus and evade, or better yet barrell roll out of your arc... but he's got the option.

It's certainly a risk, and more of a "fun" build than a tournament build... but I think it can work. I actually brought a triple Advanced build to my last X-Wing tournament and got completely stomped.... but I think that is largely due to the fact that I needed something more than just 3 advanced. I DID have Vader with expose, and DID get to use it a few times, but it probably would have worked better if I had given him predator, especially with the ATC denying my the use of Target Lock rerolls. Since the Raider has been released I've played Vader with Expose about 4 times. Once it worked REALLY good, the rest of the time it was just "meh". I still like it and I'm trying to find that perfect build that really lets it shine.

As for just going with a phantom, lets say a 25 point phantom, for example, you save a ton on points. But you lack in both pilot skill, and pilot abilities. You are also more fragile, with less agility and less hull. Lieutennant Blount with an Adv. Homing Missile can 1 -shot you with all blanks, in theory, so there is that small risk as well. I say "more fragile" because an Advanced with Expose can easily opt NOT to use it, and retain it's 3 agility, where a naked Phantom needs to be decloaked if it wants to fire, so stuck at 2 agility.

The Phantom might certainly be a better choice though, but I'm biased towards the TIE Advanced, as it is admittedly my favorite ship in the game. =)

Expose never has been and never will be viable (outside of fringe heavy point decimators.)... Least of all places on a phantom. Sorry.

But will you concede that in the case of the TIE Advanced, Expose is at least somewhat more viable than it was before the Raider's release?

Nope, sorry. The action economy for TIE Advanced is, if anything, less friendly to Expose than it was. They always wanted an action to support the defense dice they rely on, but now that their offense is relevant they suddenly want an action to modify their attack dice too, and they may also want an action to acquire a new target lock to turn on their Advanced Targeting Computer.

Expose is frustrating because it's typically no better than focus (which is free, and doesn't take up your EPT, and doesn't reduce your Agility). The Advanced Targeting Computer is a red herring: you still want to modify your non-ATC results if you can, regardless of whether you're picking up that extra crit.

What changed things for Expose, a little, was the release of Experimental Interface back in Wave 5. But it wasn't a fix: it increases the costs of using Expose to seven points, two valuable upgrade slots, and a stress token, in exchange for loosening the action-economy problem. But it's still not a good trade for the TIE Advanced, especially when you consider the greens on its dial, and nothing about the Raider release makes it any better.