Maybe it's power creep, but there seems to be more and more ships that effectively have MORE than 3 attack dice. It may not be simply a value of 4, but in some cases it's 3.5 ish. It used to be that the ships with the best firepower had three attack dice, but now there are several showing up with more than 3. Is 4 the new 3?

At first it was just Wedge, who had his three, but removing a die from the defender in a sense made that 3 count for more than any other three. Next it was Heavy Laser Cannons, but I never really counted that because it was a secondary weapon, and didn't give you a 5 dice range 1 shot - also it cost a ton and was resricted to cannon ships. Then came the Phantom, which has a fully functional 4 dice and it's cheapets pilot clocks in at only 25 points, which just seems amazing to me.

But lately it seems that ships with just straight up 3 attack dice, might end up looking weak compared to all the 3+ and 4 attack dice ships.

The Mist Hunter with Zuckuss can add one die if they grant the defender an extra die, which effectively becomes like a 3.2 ish attack dice, since attack dice are mathematically superior to defense dice. The Ghost has a straight up 4 attack dice, and it LOOKS like the cheapest ship may end up being only 33 points. If so, we may see triple ghost builds showing up next year, each with 4 attack dice. And where does that leave shisp with 2 attack dice? Like the Inquisitor's TIE? That type of ship now seems to rely SOLELY on having a strong pilot ability to compensate for weak stats.

Do you think a climate of "4 is the new 3" is going to be necessary? Are builds like 4Y+TLT going to warrant that much firepower to compensate for consistent damage output?

Twin Laser Turret is essentially 3.5 attack dice, but on a range 2-3 turret.

I don't know if such a climate will be necessary, but it's always a good idea to keep an eye on the meta. Time will tell.

I've been wondering about that as well, and how it will affect the generic 2-red dice ships.

The Z and TIE/ln both only survive thanks to being cheap, and it required a major fix for the TIE/adv to get it playable. The Y was helped by secondary turrets, but even that took the BTL title to really push it back up. The A is still underplayed except either as a blocker or Jake, it's the release of these 1pt EPTs that may finally bring them back up.

I don't know how the TIE/foo will shake out, as it seems to be in the A's ballpark except without the ability to take multiple EPTs or prockets.

Actually, I see the opposite happening. FFG has and is releasing cheaper 2 attack ships. They seem to be giving the Swarm a boost back into the Meta. The Advanced and the Adv. Prototype are both excellent 2 attack die ships. The A-wing is enjoying success thanks to its double EPT title. I have high hopes for the new TIE/FO as well.

With Low Agi ships entering the meta at large, it makes low attack ships suitably feasible, also dem artillery boats...

So yeah. Dem swarms.

The Ghost has a straight up 4 attack dice, and it LOOKS like the cheapest ship may end up being only 33 points.

Based on what? It's four dice but it's a large based ship with likely not the most amazing dial in the world with its attack confined to its firing arc. Wouldn't be surprised if it can't K-turn. Look at the crazy skills the Aggressor needs to make its large base single arc work at 36 points. The VCX melts you if you charge it head on, but it probably has a Decimator-esque dial at the price it's at: even in the very unlikely event that you can run three (at 1pt pilot ability and 1pt per pilot skill rank it's 35 for the Lothal Spacer¹) you'd just arc-dodge the things. Its attack value is so high because it needs to be: it looks like a ship designed to be kitted out with a docked ship (which is probably going to be at least 20 or 21 points for the cheapest PS3 three dicer) and a turret upgrade. Those give it a second turret attack and a rear arc to boot.

^{1: Or whatever it ends up being called. Lothal Smuggler maybe.}

The TIE fighter and Z-95 Headhunter have an attack value of 2, but there's about two of them per cheap three dicer. In terms of red dice thrown, they outnumber a similar number of cheaper ships, and at close range they outnumber them signficantly (two twos versus a three is a toss up, but two threes versus a four?). Swarmers have more dice, but spread out over multiple attacks. This gives them an edge against lower agility ships but a comparative weakness against higher agility ships. A B-wing can weather a hit from a few three dice attacks but melts under a large number of twos. A TIE interceptor can merrily dodge the twos, but a three dice attack stands a higher chance against higher agility. When you consider the numerical advantage the two dice ships tend to have, they're weaker against effects that trigger every attack (agility dice, Flight Instructor, et cetera) but stronger than lower numbers of higher dice ships against one off effects (hit points, evade and focus tokens (especially focus tokens), C-3PO).

Then we get to high teens ships like the TIE/fo, the A-wing and likely the oncoming TAP. It's not correct to say that these ships have the same attack potential as TIE fighters or Z-95s. The TIE/fo's incredible dial means it sacrifices fewer shots and retains action economy more easily when coming out of K-turns. The A-wing is great at getting into Range 1 and capable enough at sharp moves that it can competently fight at close range too. Played well against an opponent of poor maneuverability it can match X-wings for attack power for a much lower cost. Both the TIE/fo and Green Sqd Pilot at EPT carrier rank can take and make full use of PTL, further improving their damage potential over TIEs.

Attack dice doesn't translate directly into damage: action economy for stacking the odds and the dial for arc dodging and range selection are just as important.

Then came the Phantom, which has a fully functional 4 dice and it's cheapets pilot clocks in at only 25 points, which just seems amazing to me.

Which is either not fired on several rounds due to the use of the cloak, or you're paying 12 points to stick two extra dice on a Z-95. By the time you're getting a TIE phantom that can make full use of those 4 dice every round and isn't as easy to swat as the cheapest fighter in the game you're in the 40pt ballpark.

I think you need to wait for that new sensor slot to be spoiled to decide that Ghost melts when you meet it head on.

I think that four has always been the new three.

Interceptors, a wave 2 ship, work best at range one, where they can slip in a land out of arcs, keep the dice high, and use the mods to cover any remaining shots or deficiencies in green dice. The b-wing loves to stay in tight, where it can cause insane damage spikes that not a lot of ships can hold up to. The difference is that you had to work for 4.

4 is coming a little easier these days, but so are the green dice. I can't tell you how many times I've only rolled one natural evade and never took damage from an attack.

It's an interesting point. If it's true, it will also disproportionately effect imperials the most, leaving them eating dust; fully half their ships fire with 2 dice, and none can take secondary weapons to improve that stat (a condition that is only shared with the A-wing and the Z-95). Still, the advanced fix goes to show that things aren't that simple...

. The Advanced and the Adv. Prototype are both excellent 2 attack die ships.

I just about spit milk out of my nose when reading that.

The Advil is most definitely NOT an excellent ship. The Inquisitor has a solid ability, but that's it. The Advil looks to cost 17 or 18 for it's cheapest ship, and that makes it WAY overcosted. It is actually WORSE than a TIE/fo Fighter, since a single crit can 1-shot it. We haven't seen it's dial yet, so the dial had better be UN-Freaking-Believable since it's likely not going to be able to take the X1 title. And considering the TIE/FO FIghter has a solid dial already, I seriously doubt that the ADV prototype is going to be able to top it. It's going to need a white K-Turn, S-Loop, or T-Roll in order to justify it's outrageous price.

. The Advanced and the Adv. Prototype are both excellent 2 attack die ships.

I just about spit milk out of my nose when reading that.

The Advil is most definitely NOT an excellent ship. The Inquisitor has a solid ability, but that's it. The Advil looks to cost 17 or 18 for it's cheapest ship, and that makes it WAY overcosted. It is actually WORSE than a TIE/fo Fighter, since a single crit can 1-shot it. We haven't seen it's dial yet, so the dial had better be UN-Freaking-Believable since it's likely not going to be able to take the X1 title. And considering the TIE/FO FIghter has a solid dial already, I seriously doubt that the ADV prototype is going to be able to top it. It's going to need a white K-Turn, S-Loop, or T-Roll in order to justify it's outrageous price.

If they make the TAP too expensive it'll suffer but if it's 16 base it has one major advantage AT, fo can't mount em and in a meta full of turrets that makes all the difference.

Anything the fo does I can do with existing ships, ties are more efficient, interceptors have better firepower the advanced overs a host of options.

It's four dice but it's a large based ship with likely not the most amazing dial in the world with its attack confined to its firing arc. Wouldn't be surprised if it can't K-turn. Look at the crazy skills the Aggressor needs to make its large base single arc work at 36 points. The VCX melts you if you charge it head on, but it probably has a Decimator-esque dial at the price it's at

I'd love to think this is the case, but if they're hewing close to its depiction on the show, it's going to be closer to a Falcon than a Decimator...

It's four dice but it's a large based ship with likely not the most amazing dial in the world with its attack confined to its firing arc. Wouldn't be surprised if it can't K-turn. Look at the crazy skills the Aggressor needs to make its large base single arc work at 36 points. The VCX melts you if you charge it head on, but it probably has a Decimator-esque dial at the price it's at

I'd love to think this is the case, but if they're hewing close to its depiction on the show, it's going to be closer to a Falcon than a Decimator...

0 agility mostly prevents c3p0 from being usable- It will probably also be very pricey when you try to bid up in PS, especially if you're buying the ship to dock with it and get the second shot and aux arc.

Then again, guys- this game is designed around the red die being better and way easier to modify than green dice. I don't see THAT much power creep- I think the VCX is probably just an attempt to make a centerpiece type ship that isn't a PWT, and a 4-die native attack is probably part of that.

It's not really so much the attack dice. Generic Phantoms are balanced for their cost.

It's the obnoxious action economy that's getting out of hand. Look at PtL Kyle Katarn crew Super Dash, or Super Corran, or Super Whisper, combos that are meant for Lambdas on these super ships.

It's not really so much the attack dice. Generic Phantoms are balanced for their cost.

It's the obnoxious action economy that's getting out of hand. Look at PtL Kyle Katarn crew Super Dash, or Super Corran, or Super Whisper, combos that are meant for Lambdas on these super ships.

Combos meant for lamdas? The ones that don't have EPT's, droids, or access to rebel only crew?

It's not really so much the attack dice. Generic Phantoms are balanced for their cost.

It's the obnoxious action economy that's getting out of hand. Look at PtL Kyle Katarn crew Super Dash, or Super Corran, or Super Whisper, combos that are meant for Lambdas on these super ships.

Would you ever take a 45+ point ship that didn't have strong action economy(either through actions themselves or action-like effects)?

. The Advanced and the Adv. Prototype are both excellent 2 attack die ships.

I just about spit milk out of my nose when reading that.

The Advil is most definitely NOT an excellent ship. The Inquisitor has a solid ability, but that's it. The Advil looks to cost 17 or 18 for it's cheapest ship, and that makes it WAY overcosted. It is actually WORSE than a TIE/fo Fighter, since a single crit can 1-shot it. We haven't seen it's dial yet, so the dial had better be UN-Freaking-Believable since it's likely not going to be able to take the X1 title. And considering the TIE/FO FIghter has a solid dial already, I seriously doubt that the ADV prototype is going to be able to top it. It's going to need a white K-Turn, S-Loop, or T-Roll in order to justify it's outrageous price.

That is really wrong. Assuming naked is 17, that's fine. You aren't taking a V1 for it's base stats. You are bringing it for the title. At 18 pts with the title, it has a fine niche, with being able to be both offensive and defensive at the same time. The title is what will seperate the V1 from the FO.

And really, crit probabilities are such a small thing that they should barely be a consideration.

It's not really so much the attack dice. Generic Phantoms are balanced for their cost.

It's the obnoxious action economy that's getting out of hand. Look at PtL Kyle Katarn crew Super Dash, or Super Corran, or Super Whisper, combos that are meant for Lambdas on these super ships.

Would you ever take a 45+ point ship that didn't have strong action economy(either through actions themselves or action-like effects)?

If it had enough attack dice, hell yeah i would

. The Advanced and the Adv. Prototype are both excellent 2 attack die ships.

I just about spit milk out of my nose when reading that.

The Advil is most definitely NOT an excellent ship. The Inquisitor has a solid ability, but that's it. The Advil looks to cost 17 or 18 for it's cheapest ship, and that makes it WAY overcosted. It is actually WORSE than a TIE/fo Fighter, since a single crit can 1-shot it. We haven't seen it's dial yet, so the dial had better be UN-Freaking-Believable since it's likely not going to be able to take the X1 title. And considering the TIE/FO FIghter has a solid dial already, I seriously doubt that the ADV prototype is going to be able to top it. It's going to need a white K-Turn, S-Loop, or T-Roll in order to justify it's outrageous price.

That is really wrong. Assuming naked is 17, that's fine. You aren't taking a V1 for it's base stats. You are bringing it for the title. At 18 pts with the title, it has a fine niche, with being able to be both offensive and defensive at the same time. The title is what will seperate the V1 from the FO.

And really, crit probabilities are such a small thing that they should barely be a consideration.

I suppose the title is the only reason to take it.... but then why even release a ship that is so weak it needs a title to even be considered.... and have the title COME WITH it? I mean, that just doesn't sound right. If the title is an auto-include, then perhaps they should have simply designed it better so as to not NEED a fix in it's own expansion?

. The Advanced and the Adv. Prototype are both excellent 2 attack die ships.

I just about spit milk out of my nose when reading that.

The Advil is most definitely NOT an excellent ship. The Inquisitor has a solid ability, but that's it. The Advil looks to cost 17 or 18 for it's cheapest ship, and that makes it WAY overcosted. It is actually WORSE than a TIE/fo Fighter, since a single crit can 1-shot it. We haven't seen it's dial yet, so the dial had better be UN-Freaking-Believable since it's likely not going to be able to take the X1 title. And considering the TIE/FO FIghter has a solid dial already, I seriously doubt that the ADV prototype is going to be able to top it. It's going to need a white K-Turn, S-Loop, or T-Roll in order to justify it's outrageous price.

That is really wrong. Assuming naked is 17, that's fine. You aren't taking a V1 for it's base stats. You are bringing it for the title. At 18 pts with the title, it has a fine niche, with being able to be both offensive and defensive at the same time. The title is what will seperate the V1 from the FO.

And really, crit probabilities are such a small thing that they should barely be a consideration.

I suppose the title is the only reason to take it.... but then why even release a ship that is so weak it needs a title to even be considered.... and have the title COME WITH it? I mean, that just doesn't sound right. If the title is an auto-include, then perhaps they should have simply designed it better so as to not NEED a fix in it's own expansion?

Because you're not looking at it the right way.

It's not that it needs a "fix", it's that FFG's design methodology can't really build abilities into generic pilot cards (and especially not into the non-free space on unique pilot cards), and so to give a ship-specific ability, they create a title.

A title is just a way to bolt an extra package of rules on to a generic ship.

[Edit: ninja'ed by less than a minute, apparently.]

I suppose the title is the only reason to take it.... but then why even release a ship that is so weak it needs a title to even be considered.... and have the title COME WITH it? I mean, that just doesn't sound right. If the title is an auto-include, then perhaps they should have simply designed it better so as to not NEED a fix in it's own expansion?

Because design wise, we are sort of reaching the end of what stats, dials, and actions can do to differentiate ships. The title gives the ship a little something special, something that can't easily be replicated by the current rules. I prefer the title to creating some weird new action. I strongly suspect, going forward, we will be seeing more titles to give ships a little something special.

A title is not necessarily a fix.

. The Advanced and the Adv. Prototype are both excellent 2 attack die ships.

I just about spit milk out of my nose when reading that.

The Advil is most definitely NOT an excellent ship. The Inquisitor has a solid ability, but that's it. The Advil looks to cost 17 or 18 for it's cheapest ship, and that makes it WAY overcosted. It is actually WORSE than a TIE/fo Fighter, since a single crit can 1-shot it. We haven't seen it's dial yet, so the dial had better be UN-Freaking-Believable since it's likely not going to be able to take the X1 title. And considering the TIE/FO FIghter has a solid dial already, I seriously doubt that the ADV prototype is going to be able to top it. It's going to need a white K-Turn, S-Loop, or T-Roll in order to justify it's outrageous price.

That is really wrong. Assuming naked is 17, that's fine. You aren't taking a V1 for it's base stats. You are bringing it for the title. At 18 pts with the title, it has a fine niche, with being able to be both offensive and defensive at the same time. The title is what will seperate the V1 from the FO.

And really, crit probabilities are such a small thing that they should barely be a consideration.

I suppose the title is the only reason to take it.... but then why even release a ship that is so weak it needs a title to even be considered.... and have the title COME WITH it? I mean, that just doesn't sound right. If the title is an auto-include, then perhaps they should have simply designed it better so as to not NEED a fix in it's own expansion?

Punishing One is probably exactly the way they would do the Falcon if they could have designed it today instead of the downgraded card for the generic YT-1300.

What, will no one give the poor Wild Space Fringer and Outer Rim Smuggler some love?