-What is the root of the X-wing's problems, other than its relative high cost and occasional trouble dumping stress?

The B-wing and the BTL-A4 Y-wing were more points efficient in the same role. They needed to be tougher.

IA made them tougher.

People wanted a big flashy TIE/x1 ATC style upgrade to the X-wing. The X-wing didn't need one, it didn't get one, and people aren't happy. Integrated Astromech, despite being great, wasn't flashy enough.

[Rogue Squadron Veteran] [Title] [x points]

When attacking or defending your may roll one additional dice, after rolling immediately cancel one of those dice.

That's mechanically the same as giving them a free reroll on everything.

S-Foils"

Modification. X-Wing or B-Wing only.

2 Points

Each turn, immediately before revealing your maneuver dial, you may choose to close S-Foils.

If you do so, you must interchange the Ships agility value and attack value until the end of the end phase. If you do so, you may execute a free boost action after completing a white or green maneuver this turn but you may not fire any secondary weapons this turn.

On turns you choose to not close S-Foils, gain the barrel roll action on your action bar

NICE. I like it. Simple, useful, and it's not limited to one ship. Anything that goes in the direction of giving the really devoted players what they need and gives the rest of us a chance to say "Hooray, more fun stuff!" is all right by me.

Would you mind if I plug all that into Strange Eons, if the mood ever strikes me?

Not at all, you're welcome XD

If the T-65 is getting another fix it'll be something fairly minor. Integrated Astromech puts it pretty close to the B-Wing in terms of survivability at the same points value, and it has similar mobility (much faster at the expense of barrel roll). The remaining B advantages are system and crew. The astromech partially makes up for this. So, the obvious fix is this: Add a tech slot. It fits thematically, makes the ship markedly different from the B-Wing in terms of customization.

It probably fixes the Generics, Tarn and Biggs.

The Aces are unchanged bad. 1 more hp is not bad for 1 point, but without mobility it won't change a lot. Even discarding a crit often does not make the difference. Because these ships are pretty helpless and a big chunk of points. Meaning the enemy will focus them. If they can't get out of the way, they'll still die too fast!

I still wholeheartedly disagree with this premise. Wedge with PTL, BB-8 and IA is amazing for 34 points. Same with Porkins using VI, R3A2 and IA. They don't need mobility to be effective as long as they can last long enough to do more than their point cost in damage.

Yes, which they can't against anything that can outdamage them or arc dodge them. Which is actually a huge lot of stuff.

I am not afraid fighting against the T-65 with most competitive lists. Not before IA, and not after!

So let's look at just a few competitive lists and maybe you will see why Aces with IA and no movement (ignoring BB-8 for now because as i said he might be interesting to try) will not win you a flower pot.

Palpmobile: the 2 aces will outmaneuver and arc dodge you pretty much no matter what. Loss to arc dodging.

Brobots: Are you kidding me? They are more durable, more maneuvrable and have similar firepower than you. They will probably arc-dodge you even if you have higher PS. Clean loss in my book.

4Y TLT: Probably will outdamage you pretty hard even if you win a HP on IA . Having no movement options really really hurts as you can't dip into a certain range or Donut. Loss to outdamaged (probably even if you have Wedge)

2 Ship PWT + Ace: Depends on the combination, but they will probably arc dodge you pretty hard and you don't even get a PS advantage here. Some might be beatable if they have no EU. Barely. But probabky loss to arc-dodging PWT.

BBBBZ (or XXXXZ with IA). You have the PS advantage, but both have no movement options except the B's have Barrel roll. They will joust you and outdamage you. Loss to outdamaged.

Tie Swarm. This was always an uphill battle for X-Wings, but here 1 more hp on your X might actually make the difference. I can't say how this would go. It could still be that you get outdamaged in a joust, that you just cant escape from with no movement.

There are some more competitive lists of course, but generally i don't see IA making any difference in most matchups for T-65 aces.

I might see Wedge with BB-8 and IA make some sense, but that's literally the only ome. Porkins will not see play. Not even like you outfit him.

Running through the list, using VI Porkins with R3A2, Wedge with BB-8 and PTL, and naked Biggs. I'll admit this list would work better with R4-D6 on Biggs, but I already said VI Porkins so I'll stick with it.

Palpmobile with Aces: A strong matchup, but winnable. They will only be able to arc-dodge you if they win the right to move second, so already a coin-flip there. Otherwise, they're stuck gambling on the hope that they correctly guess your final position. You'll still be able to draw longer-range shots at them, which could give Porkins a chance to tag Soontir with R3A2, at which point he's predictable. Vader doesn't do well with R3A2 either due to his terrible greens. Vader would still be able to arc-dodge reliably if he has VI, but that build causes problems for everyone.

Brobots: Again, R3A2 is huge here for making them predictable. The stress means they won't be able to S-Loop, K-turn, Advanced Sensors, and they risk a second stress token if they hard turn. The odds go even further into your favor if Biggs is able to take R4-D6, as that changes their weapon from HLC to LOL.

4Y TLT: I'll admit this is a tough matchup. They'll probably need to take out two Y-Wings before Biggs dies to have a prayer of victory. R3A2 can offer at least some help by either forcing Y-wings to do straight maneuvers or fire while stressed.

2-ship PWT: Depends on the VI status. Biggs will offer at least a couple of turns of protection. Otherwise, they have the same boosting concerns that the Palpmobile build has.

BBBBZ: See 4Y TLT, but slightly easier. Again will largely depend on your ability to take out a couple of B-Wings before Biggs dies. R3A2 doesn't really help at all here, though Porkins at least can pull off unstressed K-turns.

TIE Swarm: As noted, the extra HP here may make a difference. They'll be a tough matchup, but they're also tough for the things that are your toughest matchups.

Overall, I see every one of these matches as winnable. Not all of the matches will be easy (which is fine, as a squad which views every match as easy is a squad that is not balanced), but they're all winnable.

I would say that this squad is hardly one to call competitive. We might see 1 high PS X-Wing with BB-8 in some lists, but a 3X is just not going to cut it on equal player level against these competitive lists.

Edit: even if its only one Ace with BB-8 and PTL that would become playable, i would not be too unhappy with that. I mean we have a few ships where its just one pilot which is playable. Like on the E-Wing for example where its always Corran with R2-D2 pretty much.

I guess with the Rookies that have become better we could possibly call it a fix. Just sad that BB-8 is unique...

For the record, i seriously doubt we will get a "Rogue Squadron" as from what I've read in the new fiction, the Rogue Squad of legends fiction doesnt exist. There is Red Sqadron, but no Rogue - at least pertaining to x-wings. Speeders are another matter, and of course, Rogue One will explain further.

Yeah but Corran Horn, Tycho etc. are part of the X-Wing game. The JumpMaster 5000 and Mist Hunter certainly aren't canon either.

The t-70 is the X-wing fix.

Here is your T-65 fix.

too offensive to show

The X-wing has no well-defined role and it still really doesn't- it just got better at being a jouster, though it's still not the best jouster you can buy.

Honestly you guys keep overlooking the simple
Title:
Outdated hardware.
x-wing only, excludes t-70

-2 points.

Honestly you guys keep overlooking the simple

Title:

Outdated hardware.

x-wing only, excludes t-70

-2 points.

Honestly you guys keep overlooking the simple

Title:

Outdated hardware.

x-wing only, excludes t-70

-2 points.

In a world where Integrated Astromech exists, and the Kiraassshaazzzxxxhh exists and costs 20 points, there is less than no chance of the X-Wing getting a points discount.

I agree, my biggest grip is if the t-70 does infact only come with 1 IA.

Here is the fix you've been waiting for
https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2015/9/10/fight-a-bigger-battle/
Intergrated astromech

Combine it with a regular r2-unit and you've got a hull upgrade + some more green manouvers(most of the game), for 2pts

T-70 X-wing Expansion Pack

The X-wing has no well-defined role and it still really doesn't- it just got better at being a jouster, though it's still not the best jouster you can buy.

Its well-defined role is "jouster". And it IS pretty much the most efficient jouster you can buy that's got three attack dice.

That would actually be the B-wing.

Not only is it more efficient in the raw sense, it has better upgrade slots- system is generally better than astromech, and if you want to run a jousting list with 4 Bs, you can fit in something like advanced sensors which makes the red maneuvers better, or FCS/Accuracy Corrector for action efficiency. The X wing's dial is still that ho-hum thing the Z-95 uses. The B, while it's supposed to have a worse dial than the X, is actually considerably better at low speeds due to the 1-hard.

That being said, I expect to see a few more X wings with integrated astromech nowadays, though.

Here is the fix you've been waiting for

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2015/9/10/fight-a-bigger-battle/

Intergrated astromech

Combine it with a regular r2-unit and you've got a hull upgrade + some more green manouvers(most of the game), for 2pts

T-70 X-wing Expansion Pack

Did you even read one post inthis thread before writing this? I doubt it...

We all know about IA and R2 for 3 pages, and for the 8 threads that already existed on this. It's also 1 point not 2!

The X-wing has no well-defined role and it still really doesn't- it just got better at being a jouster, though it's still not the best jouster you can buy.

Its well-defined role is "jouster". And it IS pretty much the most efficient jouster you can buy that's got three attack dice.

That would actually be the B-wing.

Not only is it more efficient in the raw sense, it has better upgrade slots- system is generally better than astromech, and if you want to run a jousting list with 4 Bs, you can fit in something like advanced sensors which makes the red maneuvers better, or FCS/Accuracy Corrector for action efficiency. The X wing's dial is still that ho-hum thing the Z-95 uses. The B, while it's supposed to have a worse dial than the X, is actually considerably better at low speeds due to the 1-hard.

It's just not a clear win on one side or the other any more. It pretty much comes down to personal taste and what the rest of your list looks like.

And it's an excellent X-wing buff. He brought it up because people are acting like it's not a fix because it's not flashy enough for them.

The X-wing has no well-defined role and it still really doesn't- it just got better at being a jouster, though it's still not the best jouster you can buy.

Its well-defined role is "jouster". And it IS pretty much the most efficient jouster you can buy that's got three attack dice.

That would actually be the B-wing.

Not only is it more efficient in the raw sense, it has better upgrade slots- system is generally better than astromech, and if you want to run a jousting list with 4 Bs, you can fit in something like advanced sensors which makes the red maneuvers better, or FCS/Accuracy Corrector for action efficiency. The X wing's dial is still that ho-hum thing the Z-95 uses. The B, while it's supposed to have a worse dial than the X, is actually considerably better at low speeds due to the 1-hard.

That being said, I expect to see a few more X wings with integrated astromech nowadays, though.

It used to be the B-wing because the X-wing was simply outclassed before Integrated Astromech. The B-wing'll probably remain in majority because the X-wing needs IA and in tournaments you'd need to buy four T-70s to run an XXXXZ, but that aside the comparison is nowhere near as clear cut any more. (Personally I'd lean to an XXBBZ for more versatility).

The X-wing dial and Z-95 dial have a difference far more critical than the K-turn speed: the position of its green moves. It matches the B-wing on green, beats it at high speed (full range of 3 moves in white whereas the B-wing gets all but the 3 straight in red) and while it can't pull that razor 1-turn it can probably keep the same shot with a 4 koiogran. If you took the R2 instead of the R5 it's got an excellent range of moves coming out of that K-turn too.

The B, while it's supposed to have a worse dial than the X, is actually considerably better at low speeds due to the 1-hard.

Only with Advanced Sensors, and then you're a 25 point ship. Otherwise that 1-hard costs it an action and either way forces it onto a green next turn.

When you start loading upgrades onto the B-wing (Fire Control System, Advanced Sensors, Accuracy Corrector) it ceases to be a 22pt versus 22pt comparison.

The X-wing has no well-defined role and it still really doesn't- it just got better at being a jouster, though it's still not the best jouster you can buy.

Its well-defined role is "jouster". And it IS pretty much the most efficient jouster you can buy that's got three attack dice.

That would actually be the B-wing.

Not only is it more efficient in the raw sense, it has better upgrade slots- system is generally better than astromech <snip>

This is the key - there still aren't any really good 1 or 2pt astromechs that synergise with the X-wing in particular. R5 is better on Y-wings who have more hull to land crits on, and likewise get more out of the R2 unit (Like green banks at all, y'know?).

If we get a couple of particuarly X-wing friendly Astromechs... we'll be just fine. Alas, the only one we don't know about (and which might actually qualify) is the Targeting Astromech. The wording on that card isn't terribly promising at being more valuable on an agile ship (X) over a stiff one (Y).

We'll see. In the meantime, IA is still one heck of a card.

For the record, i seriously doubt we will get a "Rogue Squadron" as from what I've read in the new fiction, the Rogue Squad of legends fiction doesnt exist. There is Red Sqadron, but no Rogue - at least pertaining to x-wings. Speeders are another matter, and of course, Rogue One will explain further.

Yeah but Corran Horn, Tycho etc. are part of the X-Wing game. The JumpMaster 5000 and Mist Hunter certainly aren't canon either.

Yes, that is true, they are EU characters, however Corran flew an X-wing, and all those ships likely don't have new canon tie ins that can't exist with the old lore.

If Corran never shows up im the new fiction, he becomes just a random name for a pilot without any history.

This is the key - there still aren't any really good 1 or 2pt astromechs that synergise with the X-wing in particular. R5 is better on Y-wings who have more hull to land crits on, and likewise get more out of the R2 unit (Like green banks at all, y'know?).

If we get a couple of particuarly X-wing friendly Astromechs... we'll be just fine. Alas, the only one we don't know about (and which might actually qualify) is the Targeting Astromech. The wording on that card isn't terribly promising at being more valuable on an agile ship (X) over a stiff one (Y).

True, both R5 and R2 benefit the Y-wing more than the X-wing, but they're still definitely worth it on the X-wing when you consider Integrated Astromech. Integrated R5 gives them excellent crit resistance, and R2 lets them K-turn pretty much freely and be all but undaunted by stress attacks.

The X-wing's also, if you plan on clearing the stress rather than Tycho-stacking and hoping against hope you don't get a console fire, a better R3-A2 platform than the Y-wing.

I don't think we'll ever see a Stealth-X in the game, as it doesn't fit with the new canon Disney is pushing. It didn't show up until the Yuuzhan Vong war in the books, which would be about 15 years after the brand new T-70s debuted. It's pretty solidly scrubbed out of existence.

Actually not until after the Vong wars.

But a man can dream.......

I agree that with IA the X-Wing should be nearly as durable as the B-Wing.

And the Rookie is not outclassed anymore. But what it still lacks towards the B-Wing has been missed by most. Barrel Roll. Watch some competitive play, it's invaluable. You can force bad maneuvers, get Range 1 or assure a block with it.

But as i said with the exception of Tarn Mison and Biggs, IA is really lacking. Luke and Wedge dont really benefit from it, they are now just immobile punching bags with one more Hitpoint!

This is the key - there still aren't any really good 1 or 2pt astromechs that synergise with the X-wing in particular. R5 is better on Y-wings who have more hull to land crits on, and likewise get more out of the R2 unit (Like green banks at all, y'know?).

If we get a couple of particuarly X-wing friendly Astromechs... we'll be just fine. Alas, the only one we don't know about (and which might actually qualify) is the Targeting Astromech. The wording on that card isn't terribly promising at being more valuable on an agile ship (X) over a stiff one (Y).

True, both R5 and R2 benefit the Y-wing more than the X-wing, but they're still definitely worth it on the X-wing when you consider Integrated Astromech. Integrated R5 gives them excellent crit resistance, and R2 lets them K-turn pretty much freely and be all but undaunted by stress attacks.

The X-wing's also, if you plan on clearing the stress rather than Tycho-stacking and hoping against hope you don't get a console fire, a better R3-A2 platform than the Y-wing.

I agree that R5 got a little better with the new damage deck. There are however still a lot of crits resolving immediately. So i would still go with R2 any day of the week even on Y-Wings.

I agree that with IA the X-Wing should be nearly as durable as the B-Wing.

And the Rookie is not outclassed anymore. But what it still lacks towards the B-Wing has been missed by most. Barrel Roll. Watch some competitive play, it's invaluable. You can force bad maneuvers, get Range 1 or assure a block with it.

But as i said with the exception of Tarn Mison and Biggs, IA is really lacking. Luke and Wedge dont really benefit from it, they are now just immobile punching bags with one more Hitpoint!

Agreed, one of the main letdowns with IA is lack of decent non-unique astromech options. R2/R5/R7 are pretty meh on generic Xs and rarely seen on named X Wings (R7 Tarn excepted). Unique droids are better but obviously only help 1 ship. Overall droid options really arent good enough to help all T65s beyond a few cornercase must-haves for named pilots. Relatively easy to fix however as new droids can be released quite easily.

I agree that with IA the X-Wing should be nearly as durable as the B-Wing.

And the Rookie is not outclassed anymore. But what it still lacks towards the B-Wing has been missed by most. Barrel Roll. Watch some competitive play, it's invaluable. You can force bad maneuvers, get Range 1 or assure a block with it.

But as i said with the exception of Tarn Mison and Biggs, IA is really lacking. Luke and Wedge dont really benefit from it, they are now just immobile punching bags with one more Hitpoint!

I disagree, Luke and Wedge benefit from it even more:

Wedge Antilles (29)

Push the Limit (3)

BB-8 (2)

Integrated Astromech (0)

Luke Skywalker (28)

Lone Wolf (2)

R5-P9 (3)

Integrated Astromech (0)

Wedge now will survive longer then the first round, and Luke is even more of a pain to shoot at. They're suddenly cost-effective.

The only real trump you have is not R3-A2 against the high PS hypermobile pilots. It's Wedge with BB-8. For the reason that he has mobility and can make something out of his 9 PS. In some of these games you might not even get a shot with Porkins. He is hindered even more by the need to fly formation with Biggs. And if you hamper Wedge with Biggs too, he can't make a lot out of BB-8.

I would say that this squad is hardly one to call competitive. We might see 1 high PS X-Wing with BB-8 in some lists, but a 3X is just not going to cut it on equal player level against these competitive lists.

Edit: even if its only one Ace with BB-8 and PTL that would become playable, i would not be too unhappy with that. I mean we have a few ships where its just one pilot which is playable. Like on the E-Wing for example where its always Corran with R2-D2 pretty much.

I guess with the Rookies that have become better we could possibly call it a fix. Just sad that BB-8 is unique...

I think you're underestimating Porkins here, especially against ships like Soontir. It is nearly impossible to keep a ship from being able to line up at least one range 2-3 shot on the opening engagement, and even moreso to do it so in such a way that neither Wedge nor Porkins can line up a shot. Once Soontir is double-stressed once, it's ludicrously easy to keep him that way until he's dead.

I'm not saying these things out of hope. I've been proxying IA like crazy with X-Wings of all types since the card was announced, and the results to date have been very promising.

One of my favorite loadouts for Porkins is: expert handling, R5-D8, experimental interface.

Expensive, but dangerous and able to reposition with BR or K Turn and TL/focus for a shot. He can also regen and hold a focus most turns if he needs to tank. Makes arc dodgers like him a little less.

I agree that with IA the X-Wing should be nearly as durable as the B-Wing.And the Rookie is not outclassed anymore. But what it still lacks towards the B-Wing has been missed by most. Barrel Roll. Watch some competitive play, it's invaluable. You can force bad maneuvers, get Range 1 or assure a block with it.But as i said with the exception of Tarn Mison and Biggs, IA is really lacking. Luke and Wedge dont really benefit from it, they are now just immobile punching bags with one more Hitpoint!

I disagree, Luke and Wedge benefit from it even more:Wedge Antilles (29)Push the Limit (3)BB-8 (2)Integrated Astromech (0)Luke Skywalker (28)Lone Wolf (2)R5-P9 (3)Integrated Astromech (0)Wedge now will survive longer then the first round, and Luke is even more of a pain to shoot at. They're suddenly cost-effective.

As i said i would play Wedge in that configuration as he is probably worth his points. More because of BB-8 which gives him movement for 2 points than because of IA, but it's free and the one more hitpoint/avoided crit can't possibly be wrong.

The Luke build is just not cutting it for 33 points though. At this price tag, you don't have any ship with no movement option that would be competitive. He is tanky, but you nee

The only real trump you have is not R3-A2 against the high PS hypermobile pilots. It's Wedge with BB-8. For the reason that he has mobility and can make something out of his 9 PS. In some of these games you might not even get a shot with Porkins. He is hindered even more by the need to fly formation with Biggs. And if you hamper Wedge with Biggs too, he can't make a lot out of BB-8.

I would say that this squad is hardly one to call competitive. We might see 1 high PS X-Wing with BB-8 in some lists, but a 3X is just not going to cut it on equal player level against these competitive lists.

Edit: even if its only one Ace with BB-8 and PTL that would become playable, i would not be too unhappy with that. I mean we have a few ships where its just one pilot which is playable. Like on the E-Wing for example where its always Corran with R2-D2 pretty much.

I guess with the Rookies that have become better we could possibly call it a fix. Just sad that BB-8 is unique...

I think you're underestimating Porkins here, especially against ships like Soontir. It is nearly impossible to keep a ship from being able to line up at least one range 2-3 shot on the opening engagement, and even moreso to do it so in such a way that neither Wedge nor Porkins can line up a shot. Once Soontir is double-stressed once, it's ludicrously easy to keep him that way until he's dead.

I'm not saying these things out of hope. I've been proxying IA like crazy with X-Wings of all types since the card was announced, and the results to date have been very promising.

The last time i saw 3X lists being a (very minor) thing was Wes Janson with R3-A2 to counter Phantoms. And you took EU every single time because else he never ever got into the vicinity of getting a shot even at PS10 with VI. Unless the opponent just misplayed big time. Make no mistake, Soontir is just uncatchable for X-Wings, as are many other things. Unless you invest massively in EU.

That was always their problem, and still is.