Frankly and in brief:

I own 2 of the Eggboxes and I like to use them both + escort.

I pretty much like the Tie Punisher but I really think it should have come with a title to let it use Extra Munitions for free.

This would help the especially the common pilots.

Just a thought:

Why would you use a common Punisher as a missile platform?

Because of the System Upgrade slot, isn't it?

You want to have a target lock and focus and FCS could be much of a help if you manage to keep your target in your arc.

And going as a missile platform you want to have teeth in all 3 ranges.

So if you start with the cheapest Punisher at PS2:

Cutlass 21

FCS 2

EM 2

You are at 25 points now and its still empty ... thats almost like Rhymer at that point.

Now you want to have Concussions and Clusters to let use the target lock in all ranges and to get the best out of EM.

But now you are at 33 points and I think thats just a bit too much for what you get.

Starting out at 25 points with an empty PS2 bomber is just a hair too expensive.

Especially now with the TLT lists around, you want to have PS4 to be hopefully able to get a kill before the TLTs fire.

What are your thoughts and experiences with the common Punisher pilots as bomber/missile platform?

Seems like they are fine for casual play but will struggle to make it into competitive squadrons.

16 Point Scimitar Bombers are a cheaper way to drop Connor Nets.

I'd use cheaper ordnance and other tricks on the generics. Accuracy Corrector, Clusters, Ion Pulse, EM, for example. It can still really hurt big ships (autohit against Falcons and Decimators with Pulses), take a beating, can fight reasonably well once its out of rockets, and isn't too expensive. Could even consider dropping the Clusters for a second Ion Pulse or a Tracer. It doesn't do much against Fel and Whisper, but you have other ships for that.

If you want to use this thing as your primary damage dealer, with torpedos and missiles, you might as well go for Redline. Managed to strip four shields off Dash on turn two with a Plasma Torpedo last week, it was glorious. Blocked him with an Academic, hit him with Clusters and had Alozen finish him off with an ATC crit the next turn.

I have had a great time with Redline. Those clusters with FCS love to find that 1 agility ship but I do agree its hard to be competitive with it knowing that it will die at some point.

I like the idea of Accuracy Corrector on a generic with a few bombs, keep it cheap, drop your bombs then pew pew at anything you have in sights not really caring about actions for damage output.

Super Redline or Super Deathrain seem viable.

Generics are best with AC and no ordnance. Maybe a bomb or two if you have the points.

But straight up 4 Cutlasses with AC and TIE MK II is good.

Redline and Deathrain can both solidly anchor a list for under 40 points which is pretty great, but I'm definitely still tweaking the generics. Something I want to try tonight or tomorrow is a pair of Cutlasses with FCS, EM, and Cluster Missiles. 29 points apiece isn't super expensive for 9HP, and I feel like taking a potshot at Range 3 to set up your FCS->TL->Cluster Missiles next turn against either a Large ship or a TLT carrier will be pretty devastating.

The last 42 points would make for a solid Echo, too, come to think of it: VI, Sensor Jammer, ACD, and probably Recon Specialist for that offense/defense game. SJ for TLTs, but if the Punishers can also run interference against Han or something then all the better.

Edit: re:Accuracy Corrector, I feel it isn't as good without Barrel Roll (the B-Wing and TIE/ad X1 have spoiled me), but I think it has a warm and welcoming home on Deathrain. PS6 is early enough for carpet bombing most Aces, who are the most vulnerable to Action bombs anyway, and after the chutes are clear the Corrector makes Deathrain stay relevant. Enhanced Scopes lose their charm pretty quick after your Clusters or Conners are spent, and PS6 means Ion Bombs or Seismic Charges can still be pretty effective against generic filler.

Super Redline or Super Deathrain seem viable.

Generics are best with AC and no ordnance. Maybe a bomb or two if you have the points.

But straight up 4 Cutlasses with AC and TIE MK II is good.

How does an AC Cutlass compare to an AC Tempest?

Yes you can make the named Punisher pilots work in a way that they pay off eventually - even if its not that easy.

My intention was that I want to use 2 Alphas with AT and 2 Punishers.

This means I have 30 points left for a Punisher.

But I'm not happy with the possible loadout. I only have 5 points left for ordnance.

I could drop EM or FCS ... but then I don't have any reason to take Punishers for that job.

Personal playing experiences so far (Redline and Deathrain only):

-fun to fly

-function rather well as single-ship dedicated missile/bomb platforms

-too expensive, even when skimping on upgrades

-not worth it competitively, yet, as there are better options for the points that are just as - or more reliable

Yes you can make the named Punisher pilots work in a way that they pay off eventually - even if its not that easy.

My intention was that I want to use 2 Alphas with AT and 2 Punishers.

This means I have 30 points left for a Punisher.

But I'm not happy with the possible loadout. I only have 5 points left for ordnance.

I could drop EM or FCS ... but then I don't have any reason to take Punishers for that job.

Well, there's always AC, EM, Ion Pulse and Flechette, that'll put you at 30. Gives you a bit of flexibility and is pretty reliable (ion the big ones and double stress Fel), but isn't exactly an alpha striker.

Super Redline or Super Deathrain seem viable.

Generics are best with AC and no ordnance. Maybe a bomb or two if you have the points.

But straight up 4 Cutlasses with AC and TIE MK II is good.

How does an AC Cutlass compare to an AC Tempest?

I've only flown them a handful of times, but since they don't need their action to up their attack they're free to boost constantly. Boost helps you change your angle which helps a lot vs. stuff like Super Dash, and in a situation like 1 AC Cutlass vs. 2 B-Wings you're going to lose still of course haha, but you'll be able to leverage your superior mobility for a while.

The TIE MK II card helps them a lot. Makes coming out of a K turn unstressed much easier. The things are pretty mobile when they do boost and 3 bank every turn.

I don't mind the vanilla AC Cutlass but I'd really rather the AC Tempest, because the TIE/ad can Evade. I prefer Barrel Rolling at PS2 over Boosting, too, but that's more preference than anything; the Evade on top of triple the green dice keeps those 5HP around a lot longer in my experience. If I'm taking a Punisher, I'm bringing ordnance.

Yes you can make the named Punisher pilots work in a way that they pay off eventually - even if its not that easy.

My intention was that I want to use 2 Alphas with AT and 2 Punishers.

This means I have 30 points left for a Punisher.

But I'm not happy with the possible loadout. I only have 5 points left for ordnance.

I could drop EM or FCS ... but then I don't have any reason to take Punishers for that job.

Well, there's always AC, EM, Ion Pulse and Flechette, that'll put you at 30. Gives you a bit of flexibility and is pretty reliable (ion the big ones and double stress Fel), but isn't exactly an alpha striker.

Flechettes are too weak. You need to have Concussions instead.

As you can see the generic Punishers are struggling between the Advanced and the TIE Bombers.

With EM given for free via a title, they would have a clear role.

Yes you can make the named Punisher pilots work in a way that they pay off eventually - even if its not that easy.

My intention was that I want to use 2 Alphas with AT and 2 Punishers.

This means I have 30 points left for a Punisher.

But I'm not happy with the possible loadout. I only have 5 points left for ordnance.

I could drop EM or FCS ... but then I don't have any reason to take Punishers for that job.

Well, there's always AC, EM, Ion Pulse and Flechette, that'll put you at 30. Gives you a bit of flexibility and is pretty reliable (ion the big ones and double stress Fel), but isn't exactly an alpha striker.

Flechettes are too weak. You need to have Concussions instead.

As you can see the generic Punishers are struggling between the Advanced and the TIE Bombers.

With EM given for free via a title, they would have a clear role.

You wanted it at 30 points, which means no Concussions. Personally I doubt I'd want Concussions at all. Plasma Torpedos are cheaper, Cluster Missiles hit harder against big ships. The only time Concussions are better is against high agility ships with no shields, ie. Fel, who'll probably evade the attack altogether if you can even get him in arc. For your PS2, if I were spending three or four points I'd take a Proximity Mine or a Connor Net.

I'm standing by my choice of Accuracy Corrector and Ion Pulse though.

^ Punishers are fine, they aren't the TIE/ad or TIE/sa at all. The System slot is still one of the most potent upgrades in the game, and the Tempest pilots decidedly prefer the Accuracy Corrector. The Systems and Boost are what define a Punisher, and those things need to be what inform how you upgrade it: if you're looking at Boost, take FCS, Extra Munitions, and some Cluster Missiles and Boost into Range 1 against TLTs or whatever filler is on the field. If you're focussing on your System slot, take either the Corrector or Advanced Sensors and fly super aggressively; AS Fishing with some Nets does wonders against TLTs or Aces, and using the Corrector to keep Cluster Missiles and/or Advanced Homing Missiles relatively reliable will keep the pressure on low-AGI or VIP targets alike. The Tempest and Scimitar pilots wish they had that kind of flexibility.

I have nothing against the other ships; AC Tempests are amazing, and the Scimitar is still the best way to spam bombs onto the field (two with EMs and Cluster Mines is a paltry 44 points and can make the field look hilarious). The Punisher is its own beast and deserves at least that slight respect.

The Punisher is its own beast and deserves at least that slight respect.

Well, yes. Respect given. They look massive on the table.

Now I try to make a list with 2 of them which I could at least take to a local tournament.

The Punisher is its own beast and deserves at least that slight respect.

Well, yes. Respect given. They look massive on the table.

Now I try to make a list with 2 of them which I could at least take to a local tournament.

Redline, Deathrain and an AC Tempest.

The Punisher is its own beast and deserves at least that slight respect.

Well, yes. Respect given. They look massive on the table.

Now I try to make a list with 2 of them which I could at least take to a local tournament.

Redline, Deathrain and an AC Tempest.

A list with 2 generics

The Punisher is its own beast and deserves at least that slight respect.

Well, yes. Respect given. They look massive on the table.

Now I try to make a list with 2 of them which I could at least take to a local tournament.

I'll give it a shot. First attempt, so I'd like input on your flying style, but this sounds fun.

"Echo" (42)

–VI

–Sensor Jammer

–ACD

–Recon Specialist

Cutlass Squadron Pilot (29)

–FCS

–Extra Munitions

–Cluster Missiles

Cutlass Squadron Pilot (29)

–FCS

–Extra Munitions

–Cluster Missiles

–100 points

Feel free to shave off a point from Echo for initiative if you want, I'm partial to FCS on her as well for damage output, but I figure the Jammer will help against both PWTs and TLTs. She's your hammer, and she cuts like one. Nothing new there.

The twin Cutlasses are your anvil. They should either fly in together to nuke a target on turn one or two (depending; move first? Aim for a potshot at Range 3 for first engagement, trip FCS, launch missiles on next turn since they work at Range 1, use Focus on first attack and your free FCS TL on the second. Move second? Try and jump to Range 2 for a TL to send off the first missiles immediately), or you can spread them out on either side of Echo to intimate a potent threat should someone juke for Echo and miss. Echo will probably spend half the match kiting Aces if any are around, because that's what she does. So long as she doesn't get shot at by Fel, Vader et al but keeps them occupied, the Cutlasses will be free to destroy the accompaniment (TIEs, Headhunters, heck even a Decimator or whatever).

PWTs and TLTs are probably low threat, and Brobots and other PS8+-only lists are high threat. Both Punishers should be able to destroy one VIP or IG-88 before going down though, their 9HP can take a fair bit on the approach.

My problem with punishers is that I find it too easy to overload them, I feel they do need escorts, but the escort needs to be something that can distract from the huge ass target. If I get redline to ~50 points maybe 2 phantoms. Or a phantom + ACADV, or a pair of academies.

Thinking Phantoms, no-one ignores 4 attack dice.

To be honest. While Redline and Deathrain are REALLY nice abilities. i'm more inclined to bring extra-munitions bombers.

The Punisher is its own beast and deserves at least that slight respect.

Well, yes. Respect given. They look massive on the table.

Now I try to make a list with 2 of them which I could at least take to a local tournament.

Redline, Deathrain and an AC Tempest.

A list with 2 generics

Something like this then?

Cutlass Squadron Pilot (32)

- Accuracy Corrector

- Extra Munitions

- Connor Net

- Promity Mines

Cutlass Squadron Pilot (31)

- Fire Control System

- Extra Munitions

- Plasma Torpedos

- Ion Pulse Missile

Darth Vader (37)

- TIE x1

- Advanced Targeting Computer

- Engine Upgrade

- Predator

Something like this then?

Cutlass Squadron Pilot (32)

- Accuracy Corrector

- Extra Munitions

- Connor Net

- Promity Mines

Cutlass Squadron Pilot (31)

- Fire Control System

- Extra Munitions

- Plasma Torpedos

- Ion Pulse Missile

Darth Vader (37)

- TIE x1

- Advanced Targeting Computer

- Engine Upgrade

- Predator

That I like. I'd probably drop Vader's Predator to Lone Wolf so I could mirror the AC/Bomb Punisher, but FCS/Plasmas/IPMs is a nice setup too.

The Punisher is its own beast and deserves at least that slight respect.

Well, yes. Respect given. They look massive on the table.

Now I try to make a list with 2 of them which I could at least take to a local tournament.

I'll give it a shot. First attempt, so I'd like input on your flying style, but this sounds fun.

"Echo" (42)

–VI

–Sensor Jammer

–ACD

–Recon Specialist

Cutlass Squadron Pilot (29)

–FCS

–Extra Munitions

–Cluster Missiles

Cutlass Squadron Pilot (29)

–FCS

–Extra Munitions

–Cluster Missiles

–100 points

Feel free to shave off a point from Echo for initiative if you want, I'm partial to FCS on her as well for damage output, but I figure the Jammer will help against both PWTs and TLTs. She's your hammer, and she cuts like one. Nothing new there.

The twin Cutlasses are your anvil. They should either fly in together to nuke a target on turn one or two (depending; move first? Aim for a potshot at Range 3 for first engagement, trip FCS, launch missiles on next turn since they work at Range 1, use Focus on first attack and your free FCS TL on the second. Move second? Try and jump to Range 2 for a TL to send off the first missiles immediately), or you can spread them out on either side of Echo to intimate a potent threat should someone juke for Echo and miss. Echo will probably spend half the match kiting Aces if any are around, because that's what she does. So long as she doesn't get shot at by Fel, Vader et al but keeps them occupied, the Cutlasses will be free to destroy the accompaniment (TIEs, Headhunters, heck even a Decimator or whatever).

PWTs and TLTs are probably low threat, and Brobots and other PS8+-only lists are high threat. Both Punishers should be able to destroy one VIP or IG-88 before going down though, their 9HP can take a fair bit on the approach.

Thanks for your thoughts.

I have a problem with the lack of firepower in range 3, where secondary weapons really shine.

And I've tried Echo several times now ... shes such a waste in my hands it hurts.

I'm also not very keen on 3 ship builds.

I think Tempests + AC and Prockets are a better 'anvil'.

But - I will try this list and see if it plays out.

I love Echo, and against my opponents I find that the sheer psychological weapon she brings to the table is worth the points alone.