Hi, everyone

After a long pause, my gaming group started new campaign with me as OL. We've played first quest last week. This our first playthrought of LoR and we got new for us manor of raven addon

I'm asking for advice about strategy against this specific group:

Logan Lashley - treasure hunter

Alice Raine - Marshall

High mage Quellen - Hexer

Avric Albright - Disiple

Alice Raine with her whooping 5 int discouraged me from taking Basic 2, so i decided to play Basic 1, thought they can allow me to switch before next session

I barely managed to win first quest, despite some very unlucky dice rolls, so now I have a Relic Sun's Fury. And they got treasure via tresurehunter

What should I do with the relic, take 1 exp right away or wait until another relic show up?

And what common strategy you think is best suited to deal with that particular heroes, also what ally quest should I take for them?

For now i think to get summon raven, and give up the relic to take web trap. Pit trap, tripwire are both great, but I need more ways so stop them, thought disiple can remove immobilize right away, so I dont know if this is a good choice/

I think Summon raven is nice because Marshall won't be able to disrupt it with her abilites to screw OL cards.

Correct me if Im wrong, maybe there are more potent choices. Also I quite afraid of Logan Lashley. His mobility, immune to immobilaize, ability to move my monsters were really hard to counter during first quest. I dont see another way to counter him rather than overwhelm with monsters, so need help on this

Thanks in advance

I'm sorry in advance. You're in for some hurt. I hope you are the type of group who is looking to have a good time, and not merely concerned about the win. They picked a very powerful party.

You should be scared of TH Logan. He is arguably the best TH, and TH by itself is a great scout class.

Disciple Avric is a great healer. With the right build, Prayer of healing is a major buff, and heroes can heal off of his hero ability.

Hexer Quellen is my favorite of the group- I don't know what he'll be like, but sounds fun. General trouble for monsters.

Alys Marshal is a good reason not to pick Basic 2. Both blinding speed and mental error depend on a warrior failing knowledge..

If you won the intro, that is good- don't trade in the sun stone until you have to. The heroes can never steal it back, so you might as well use it for a free green dice. It is hard to say which path you should take. Serena will only free up Avric to buff rather than worry exclusively about healing, and Raythen's investigate will just allow Logan to search by proxy.

Early wins will probably help, because whatever you do, you want to avoid the ally getting skill cards- that's crucial for you to minimize those benefits.

Ahaha, thanks =) interesting enough that they just picked heroes and classes because of nice pictures and because they are new, not for power gaming reasons

So, nice to hear that Basic 1 was reasonable choise after all.

Is raven minion worth taking? I don't see his defence scaling into Act II, and it trobles me a little

The raven flock is not designed to be a strong defense monster- it's a pretty useful class- and bonus, Alys can't mess with the "summon raven" card since you never shuffle it in.

Keep the Sun's fury, the xp isn't worth it. The sun's fury is unique as a relic because you can have it equipped on a lieutenant even if the lieutenant has a different relic already equipped (2 at once).

I would generally advise taking basic 1 against that party, so you made the right call.

What's your plot deck, if I might ask?

Also, consider yourself lucky that Quellen chose hexer, which is probably the weakest of the mage classes. If he'd taken Runemaster or Conjurer, you'd be in a lot of trouble.

I'd recommend giving them Raythen: they won't want to use his abilities as often because of Logan Lashley (IIRC, Raythen's search ability gives the card to the nearest hero, so the two can't just split up and search opposite ends of the map without sacrificing some of Logan's deck manipulation). Serena, on the other hand, will make dealing damage a bit of a nightmare with Disciple Avric there. Avric as the disciple is one of the better healers.

I'd recommend focusing on getting as many powerful but low xp cost cards as possible. The raven is good early on, but falls off hard if you don't continue getting more of the unkindness cards. The raven is particularly good on missions with lots of reinforcements, or monsters that heal.

Web trap is a favorite. Consider some magus class cards to improve your odds of getting useful cards, which can help counter Alys attacking your hand.

I was in against a similar group. Treasure Hunter is a pain in the ass to deal with. With Raythen and Logan going for treasure, I chose saboteur to make searching for treasure as painfull as possible.

Thanks for all the replies - I have no plot deck atm, but maybe I can buy one if lucky

Also I have one thing I don't quite understand. Problem is: my gaming group always try to avoid getting stunned by pit rap - if they move with stamina they buy a little more move points then they need. If Im correct I cant hinder their stamina movement with Tripwire. But what if they use move action, then buy move for stamina, and only then start moving? For example, there was situation when Alice before moving got herself 7 movement points.

How it interacts with tripwire? She lose all her movement points, or just -4 movement points of her movement action and still have thoose 3 stamina points? If the answer is 'yes' then how to decide was the first step stamina based or part of movement action? - it is important because it leads to -4 if it was stamina based, and to -3 if it was move action

Also I have idea to punish Logan with Envelop card ( http://descent2e.wikia.com/wiki/Envelop ) but it costs so much and Raven Flock should make a killing blow, witch make this card tricky a bit. Does anyone have experience of using this one? How good it can be?

Web trap is great, Im going to take both of them and maybe Monkey God curse next, Lashley has only 2 int.

Also I feel like drawing cards via magus deck is good stuff, but price of loosing action troubles me, Im not quite sure is if woth the deal. Perhaps i just need to try this

One more thing: considering choise between Gathering foretold and Honor Among Thieves I can't found balance at all. Here what I think:

1) Gathering Foretold can give OL bonus card, Honor just 1 exp

2) Second, and most important, Honor Among Thieves E2 feels like an easy walk for heroes. Proove me wrong plz, but I really feel like my party will just run like crazy gathering gold gold gold gold, wipe out all my minions, wipe out that lame Merrick and just run away.

in my opinion Merrick is weak, his abilities are very specific, ignite and aftershock work only in melee, and heroes use reach and will keep distance, his attack is not even that great, he is like ranged raven folk, and they have imba healing via waters, double rest etc). I never count on great dice, In first quest it took 8 goblins to take out Avric, I was unlucky. I dont see where I get enough damage to kill them in this quest

Srsly where would i get 12 fatigue tokens if they have endless heal source in a middle of the map + disiple. While I have only 2 groups, wich spawn not so close to Exit or Map center, reavers will go down in one turn if heroes will be determined to do this (and they will). And I spawn only one monster per turn. Even if EVERY token before Alarm will grant me fatigue (hate random factor of this one), I will still have to kill them 6 (SIX!!!) times, with that fountain of endless hit points near by, without Merric dying. (im not even granted fatigue token once per turn, They may as well win without even rising alarm if they lucky). And if Merric dies OL get punished for this... like... well. Actually, is there at least SOMETHING benefical for OL rather then for heroes? They have so much in this quest playing for them that it feels like they challende really HARD monsters... but Reavers are not THAT awfull, they will deal easily with them

I forsee the situation where I have only one monster from open grop trying to kill them. Am I missing something?

All this would be fine if not 3

3) If they win, we can end this campigne right there, anyway I wont be able to recover after they get 500+ gold or even more from that quest

4) Meanwhile Gathering foretold seems rather okay for me. I just need to kill each of them once. And I have great number of creatures from the beginning + Splig with Suns Fury, no random Alarm mechanic + I can spawn big group at the end of my turn. Also there is a big space where I can spread my goblin archers and wear heroes down from afar, assisting splig reaver and zombies. And it looks harder for them to loot all the map, because I can block their only way to left side of the map... And they have no imba healing fountan in the middle of things

So in my eyes Honor Among Thieves is a trap for OL. What I miss here? I would be glad to be wrong

I am only going to address the early question- "end your move action" as on tripwire (and getting immobilized) means you lose ALL unspent MP, regardless of source.

If you have a group that always is suffering fatigue, no rest for the wicked might be a good choice.

I am only going to address the early question- "end your move action" as on tripwire (and getting immobilized) means you lose ALL unspent MP, regardless of source.

If you have a group that always is suffering fatigue, no rest for the wicked might be a good choice.

Together with Imploding Rift from the Shadowmancer class fatigue-based movement could be limited even further.

I am only going to address the early question- "end your move action" as on tripwire (and getting immobilized) means you lose ALL unspent MP, regardless of source.

If you have a group that always is suffering fatigue, no rest for the wicked might be a good choice.

Yeah, thank you, it is pretty nice idea and it synergizes well with what Whitewing said - powerfull low level cards, no rest for the wicked sounds great

I feel like I will take raven, one or two "web trap", and one "no rest for the wicked" to begin with. I like shadow of doubt and Plot cards too

I am only going to address the early question- "end your move action" as on tripwire (and getting immobilized) means you lose ALL unspent MP, regardless of source.

If you have a group that always is suffering fatigue, no rest for the wicked might be a good choice.

Together with Imploding Rift from the Shadowmancer class fatigue-based movement could be limited even further.

i afraid they have pretty good will saves, this card is great thought, maybe I should take it to slow Logan down

If im going to stick with low level cards then I wouldn't be able to aquire "Envelop" or "Monkey Curse" this make me sad panda and questions Raven deck entirely

sorry for wall of text guys, I just feel so excited about playing descent once again after almost a year, cant stop thinking about it =D

It will require you to be winning, but look ahead and see that labyrinth can offer a good deal of extra XP for the OL. You should allow yourself some flexibility- plan for the minimum 8, but understand you could have as many as 14 if things go your way.

I think I can buy Raythen plot deck, it is available at local store in nearby city. It is fun, and will possibly hinder their treasure hunting abilites. And I heard from here that plot decks help to balance the game, im eager to try this out

I don't think it is bad thing to introduce plot deck, after the interlude. I won't be able to use it anyway in the first quest

I don't think it is bad thing to introduce plot deck, after the interlude. I won't be able to use it anyway in the first quest

Why wouldn't you be able to use it? You are not allowed to use the Raythen Lieutenant in the Labyrinth of Ruin Campaign, but all other cards from his plot deck are permitted.

I was in against a similar group. Treasure Hunter is a pain in the ass to deal with. With Raythen and Logan going for treasure, I chose saboteur to make searching for treasure as painfull as possible.

Taking the search cards like explosive runes is actually something I would recommend not doing. They're going to search, and you're not going to deter them. Logan and Raythen searching tend to go off on their own, so you'll rarely hit more than one person with them. They aren't effective enough to be worthwhile.

Web trap is always good though.

As for plot decks, you technically are supposed to choose at the start of the campaign before the first mission and then never switch, so make sure it's okay with your other players.

If you want the strongest and best plot deck, get the Baron Zachareth plot deck =p.

If you want the strongest and best plot deck, get the Baron Zachareth plot deck =p.

I must give warning to my fellow overlords to exercise great care when using the immense powers of Baron Zachareth. I've had heroes flat out abort campaigns quite early on because I was using it.

Meticulous Planning alone can lead to rage quits because essentially once you get it the Treasure Chest is no longer in the search deck. That makes for some cheesed off treasure hunters, as that is one of the strongest aspects of the class.

I view it as a necessary counter to TH though, because super rich geared up heroes are pretty hard to stop.

My group has actually stopped using plot decks altogether. Some of them are very good (read: fun) but there is so much potential for players to get overly frustrated. We also find that balance tends to not be a huge issue, even without the decks.

Well, I don't know then... I am excited to try all new stuff, but I don't want to frustrate heroes. Thought in our experience after aquiring some items, heroes start to disintegrate everything with ease. And OL need to cheese as hard as he can in order to win. For now it feels like heroes have slight advantage, thought I might be wrong

What about Raythen deck? it should be fun to chase monsters with loot =D

I haven't used that deck. Many people seem to find that plot decks help the game be more balanced- that just isn't my group's experience.

I've purchased Crown of Destiny, Vision of Dawn, Guardians of Deephall, Crusade of the forgotten and also Raythen, Serena, Ariad and Queen Ariad lieutenant packs.

I choosed Raythen plot deck to play with, meanwhile our Quellen the hexer switched to Asstara the hexer. (traps are not that good vs her sadly).

And we decided to continue campaign. I choosed to play Rude Awakening rumor and won it in 5 hours battle of planning, dice rolling and rules reading, and without using plot deck. Heroes were able to grab 75 gold, but it is not that great considering treasure hunter in game.

So now I have Sun's Fury and Her Majesty's Malice. With this relic combo, my lieutenants will hopefully proove quite deadly (thats what I was counting when choosed that rumor)

Does Her Majesty's Malice work only on lieutenants? It have to, but why it is not stated on that card?

Now Im going to play Gathering Foretold next week, using that brand new giants =))

P/S: figures from H&M packs are just amazing, Im in love with them. Queen Ariad is SUUUUPER awesome, i need to paint it ASAP

I've purchased Crown of Destiny, Vision of Dawn, Guardians of Deephall, Crusade of the forgotten and also Raythen, Serena, Ariad and Queen Ariad lieutenant packs.

I choosed Raythen plot deck to play with, meanwhile our Quellen the hexer switched to Asstara the hexer. (traps are not that good vs her sadly).

And we decided to continue campaign. I choosed to play Rude Awakening rumor and won it in 5 hours battle of planning, dice rolling and rules reading, and without using plot deck. Heroes were able to grab 75 gold, but it is not that great considering treasure hunter in game.

So now I have Sun's Fury and Her Majesty's Malice. With this relic combo, my lieutenants will hopefully proove quite deadly (thats what I was counting when choosed that rumor)

Does Her Majesty's Malice work only on lieutenants? It have to, but why it is not stated on that card?

Now Im going to play Gathering Foretold next week, using that brand new giants =))

P/S: figures from H&M packs are just amazing, Im in love with them. Queen Ariad is SUUUUPER awesome, i need to paint it ASAP

Her Majesty's Malice is a relic and can therefore only be used by a lieutenant. Remember that lieutenants can only equip one relic at the same, Sun's Fury beeing a exception.

And yes Queen Ariad is by far my favorite figure in the game.