Arc dodging?

So they had the Btl upgrade?

no but it was able to get into range one and still get autothrusters which kept it going for a lot longer than it should have

Right? If you'd asked me a year or more ago (even when they announced the BTL-A4 title!) "would you ever seriously consider fielding four Y-Wings at once" I would've stared at you as though you'd grown a fourth head. Then I would have calmly asked if you'd ever played the game before.

As-is, 4YTLT isn't my play style, but I don't have anything against it. It's solid.

I find it interesting that the second and third heads wouldn't have fazed you, but that fourth head... OMG!

Well it's odd as i've flown 4 y-wing ion lists before over a year ago and rocked them...

The people complaining about 4Ytlt are likely those players who, during the last meta, placed all their stock into one netlist they copied (Han +3, Dash/Corran, Deci/Soontir) got good with it only to see their "genius" go down the toilet the first time they got housed by a joker with 4 Golds...laughing maniacally...

Now, its a new meta and those poor guys cannot find a new "flavor of the wave" since the playing ground has actually been equalised. That leaves them confused as to what they need to bring to get the same repeated successes they got with superdash or Han.

Something must be broken.

Get over yourself...adapt.

As an aside, I find it hilarious that superturrets like Dash and Han have been toned down a bit now. By what you ask? Why, TURRETS of course!

Not that I ever felt that superturrets were overpowered really, but its all amusing to me that all of a sudden 2 ship builds, you know...the ones that feature turrets on large ships, are being scared off by a 6pt Y Wing upgrade.

I like this thread. OP posted with actual game experience, and explained why he doesn't like the list because of his findings.

I look forward to fighting TLT swarms myself, and because my friends REALLY like Interceptor lists, I look forward to using a 50/50 B-wing spam / TLT horde in Epic.

BBYY also sounds like a really good list.

Would that list be BY-BY?

I used to run 4Ys before it was cool!! 4 scum Ys with blaster turrets and agro mechs!! actually put out potentially more fire power than the TLT!!! why no threads about that kind of devastation? or ease of play? seriously you give up one range for an increase of one fire power.. however the odds are better hitting with the TLT but not so much when you factor in the target lock the agro mech gives you.. the problem with the blaster turret is if you lose your action your screwed!!

I have flown 3y's with Torkil about a dozen times now... And I love it.

It's nice to get away from the fragile arc dodging glass cannons, and fly something really simple, as well as beefy.

I have flown it against a few swarms, biggest being a 6 tie Fighter List. I think it had Howlrunner with Swarm Tactics, and he ran with 5 Zeta squadrons. It was flown by a player with experience flying swarms. (Proxied One of course)

Luck was slightly more on my side but I still destroyed his list with only losing one, almost 2 Y's.

Torkil Is the biggest troll that can fly in a TLT list. making howlrunner pilot skill 0 for the entire combat round, then destroying him before he gets a shot off. At the end of the first round I had a Y with 2 hp left and 1 had no shields. He lost Howlrunner and I crippled another Tie.

After the initial round I managed to destroy a tie per round. without howlrunner most were only dealing 1 hit. unfortunately for my friend I evaded most of the damage with just one Evade Die. My weakened Y's managed to stay range 3 with helped with evading the tie's sh*tty Attack. which let my untouched Y and HWK to get into position. I Managed to kill a Tie Fighter per round. Torkil chooses a target, put him to PS 0 and my ships kill it before it get a shot off. It's Brutal.

After The game we were discussing the TLT swarm and He has flown against them before but Torkil was a new twist. He and I agreed that Torkil should have been targeted first. Though defensively he survives with more ease than the Y's.

But Torkil Making key Pilots of a list PS 0 is a big threat that would need to be dealt with first. Picture Soontir PS 0 and Potentially dies before getting a shot off. lol. We agreed that swarms are definitely it's kryptonite but they don't have the one big problem Imperial swarms have,

(1) Ties don't have speed 1 straights or banks. Ties That get range 1 of me would only stay their for a single round because I just play the speed 1 game with them and they fly right by me. Or they bump.

(2) Most Swarms need to have arc on their opponent. With turrets, my Ships are not Burdened by this and can move freely, however they please.

Although Swarms Are it's weakness, TLT Y's still have a Significant advantage over them, And if you get a person with mad manoeuvring skills, they could potentially out manoeuvre the majority or even all of the swarm. And I know for a fact that splitting up attacks on Y'wings is not the brightest idea.

The people complaining about 4Ytlt are likely those players who, during the last meta, placed all their stock into one netlist they copied (Han +3, Dash/Corran, Deci/Soontir) got good with it only to see their "genius" go down the toilet the first time they got housed by a joker with 4 Golds...laughing maniacally...

Now, its a new meta and those poor guys cannot find a new "flavor of the wave" since the playing ground has actually been equalised. That leaves them confused as to what they need to bring to get the same repeated successes they got with superdash or Han.

Something must be broken.

Get over yourself...adapt.

For awhile I flee nothing but 3 interceptor.

I love bombers and use them quite often

I usually fly 3-6 ship builds ranging from rebels,imps and scum

Nice try, but you fail miserably in trying to assume my playstyle.

If you read what I said you'd see that I'm not saying they are over powered, but rather boring to fly and fly against.

With little to no skill requires to use.

As someone else mentioned it's a great list for a new player. It's strong and easy to fly.

So how about understand what someone is saying before making assumptions.

This isn't about the change in meta.

In fact I'm Glads to see the change, as I was never a big fan of the two ship meta.

I've had no problems dealing with Phantoms, and fat turrets in the past, but that this type of playstyle/build to me and from what I've heard from others is probably the most boring

Boring to play against...ok...

Your fun is not your opponents responsibility.

Read the very last word of my post you quoted.

And read my post.

It wasn't fun for my opponent as well.

Who conceded without even losing a ship.

I'm also not the first to say this, so I know I'm not alone

I just hope this isn't a meta that is going to be around for awhile.

Because if it is, I think it's rather boring, and I know others who feel the same, and imo that's not good for this game.

I was happy that the meta has changed.

I was getting tired of the two ship meta, but it feels like we just traded one turret game for another.

People like to fly turrets because they are easy, I won't disagree, but can you seriously tell me that you fly four tlt ywings and feel your having fun?

I know I didn't.

how did you get 32 dice?? if your turrets were not locked??

Ops. Typo. Suppose to be 24 dice, 32 hp

Torkil Is the biggest troll that can fly in a TLT list. making howlrunner pilot skill 0 for the entire combat round, then destroying him before he gets a shot off. At the end of the first round I had a Y with 2 hp left and 1 had no shields. He lost Howlrunner and I crippled another Tie.

Just FYI: Howlrunner is a woman. Just wanted you to know.

And read my post.

It wasn't fun for my opponent as well.

Who conceded without even losing a ship.

I'm also not the first to say this, so I know I'm not alone

I just hope this isn't a meta that is going to be around for awhile.

Because if it is, I think it's rather boring, and I know others who feel the same, and imo that's not good for this game.

I was happy that the meta has changed.

I was getting tired of the two ship meta, but it feels like we just traded one turret game for another.

People like to fly turrets because they are easy, I won't disagree, but can you seriously tell me that you fly four tlt ywings and feel your having fun?

I know I didn't.

2.) Still not as game ruining as fat turrets, especially Super Dash. Meta is far better off dominated by 50% TLTurretwing than it is dominated 50% by Fat Turretwing from a pure fun perspective. I got pounded by quad Green Squadrons with Predator and PtL flying a TLT based list. A meta where quad A-Wing is good!

3.) I see you mentioned Soontir Fel running out of tokens and succumbing to 8 attacks. Either your opponent was running Soontir Deci and fully deserved the NPE, or he was flying something else with Soontir and still deserves the NPE for being unimaginative and being part of the crowd that perpetuates 70% of Imperial squads having Soontir.

Soontir isn't OP IMO, but it's tiring seeing the same one auto include ship with the same handful of auto include upgrades in every Imperial squad. There are plenty of other viable Imperial ace ships in his cost range like deathrain, redline, Vader, maarek, the other Interceptor pilots, even rhymer with APT and EM and PtL (in theory, ha). Imperials have such a wide range of options for that 30-40 point ace ship and to see everyone pick the same one ace is bleh.

The floor of the quad TLT list is IMO way too high. Now my local meta isn't full of pro players, nut we aren't comepletely clueless either. Last week-end we had a small tournament (10 players) and one of the regulars brought along his GF (whobas far as he claimed had only played twice before) and handed her a quad TLT list. She placed 4th, narrowly missing 2nd place (she lost on time vs. a guy who kept stalling, narrowly failing to kill his 1hp Deci).

The floor of the quad TLT list is IMO way too high. Now my local meta isn't full of pro players, nut we aren't comepletely clueless either. Last week-end we had a small tournament (10 players) and one of the regulars brought along his GF (whobas far as he claimed had only played twice before) and handed her a quad TLT list. She placed 4th, narrowly missing 2nd place (she lost on time vs. a guy who kept stalling, narrowly failing to kill his 1hp Deci).

Maybe this has been answered before, but where is the ceiling? (Not damage ceiling.) Does this list cap off with how well it can do even if flown by a great player? Or could a great player do even greater things with it? By the sounds of the discussion, a better player will get leverage by taking only 2 TLT Ys and using other things that aren't so straightforward to diversify their list and hopefully counter the TLT counters. So it sounds like the ceiling on this list is pretty low as well.

Thoughts?

Replace TLT with Falcon, and it is the exact same arguements that have been tossed out. And it is still a crap arguement.

People do realize that this is a dice game. Sometimes, skill can't overcome dice. Or some newbies just have a natural talent at the game.

Replace TLT with Falcon, and it is the exact same arguements that have been tossed out. And it is still a crap arguement.

People do realize that this is a dice game. Sometimes, skill can't overcome dice. Or some newbies just have a natural talent at the game.

Also, it's okay to have competitive lists that are accessible to new players. As B'naut said, more experienced players will hopefully end up running a more diverse, metagame-aware list that resists some TLT counters--at least, once the psychological effects of "ooh, new stuff! And some of it is competitive! And threatens my old meta lists!" wear off and reality starts to reassert itself.

I'm a new player.

If another new player shows up across the table with a 4x TLT list, I won't play against that list.

You can say it's great for new players, but I'm a new player trying to develop skill. It's difficult enough to play time and again against ships whose abilities I don't understand; but to play another newbie who is just pew-pewing while flying on what amounts to cruise control, that's an insult I'm not going to add to the multitude of injuries I suffer from experienced players already.

It's a stupid list and yes, it's overpowered. It's all in the probabilities, which can't be wished away. The probabilities skew this list beyond the normal distribution for 3-attack dice ships, making it the most reliable 2-hit, 3-dice attack in the game. Its effective firepower is not hurt by bumping other ships because it's in a turret, and 3-dice (2x) doesn't rely on actions nearly as much as other 3-dice attacks. Then add 8 hit points per ship.

I just throw my hands up in the air at how vastly behind I just got left by the releases in this game. No one is looking out for the new guy at all in this.

Little timmy isn't going to stand a chance when TFA is released. Unless he runs 4x TLT Y-Wings, which he will, because his mother loves him.

so the new player can instantly spot out the overpowered

that's some mighty fun natural talent

anyway, TLTs will be a great learning experience. The keys to defeating them are purely positioning, learning how to abuse ranges relative to all enemy ships as well as learning how to effectively navigate obstacles

these guys aren't PWTs, where it's just one uber ship ignoring all the game rules. There is a ton of positional advantage to be gained by moving according to the activations of four low PS ships rather than one jerk who can shoot at an range and change his mind on the fly.

keep at it; they're incredibly vincible

Torkil Is the biggest troll that can fly in a TLT list. making howlrunner pilot skill 0 for the entire combat round, then destroying him before he gets a shot off. At the end of the first round I had a Y with 2 hp left and 1 had no shields. He lost Howlrunner and I crippled another Tie.

Just FYI: Howlrunner is a woman. Just wanted you to know.

Well ****... I forgot. lol.

So I've played about a half dozen games with the 4 Rebel Y-Wing TLT list since I got it last week, and have lost none of them so far. Three back-to-back games tonight went 3-0 versus: Han & Dash, Vader/Soontir/Kanos, and Luke/Biggs/Kataran.

For reference, I've owned X-Wing all of about three weeks and have played maybe two dozen games total so far. I do have some previous experience with Wings of Glory, so the dogfight formula isn't totally unfamiliar, but my overall win/loss ratio if the games with the TLT swarm are removed is much closer to 50/50 than 100/0.

IMHO, if I as a total beginner can take this list and beat a variety of people who have been actively playing the game for close to two years, it's not down to innate ability. Rather, it's the extremely strong list I took.

Just another data point.

I'm a new player. If another new player shows up across the table with a 4x TLT list, I won't play against that list.

That's a pretty poor attitude.

TLT is generally stronger if the enemy has few ships (with the notable exception of brobots), so 2-3 ship lists are at a big disadvantage, esp. if they are not designed to beat TLT's directly. It seems that if TLT's become prevalent, then the meta will have to shift to something like ace + miniswarm instead of PWT+ace.

Try to fly TLT's against a 4-5 ship list and see what happens.

I've also repeatedly heard from players that you're almost guaranteed to beat a TLT list if you can kill one before they have a chance to fire (i.e. have a very strong alpha strike, like ordinance/swarm list with initiative bid). After that, the same math that makes them so powerful "turns" the other way and they do not have the firepower to overwhelm your list before they go down.