So - a lot of theory crafting about what works, but who has actually played against a 4BTL TLT Y-wing squad and won?

The last list I ran across had 2 PS4 Hired Guns and 2 PS2 Syndicate Thugs. He did not worry about stress too much, but ran far enough apart so he usually had at least 1 or 2 ships outside of Range 1 to use the TLT. K-Turn made him effective on turning and shooting the next round.

Assuming an experienced player is running this, it's that much harder to defend against and dice are fickle enough that they will fail when they are most needed.

With Worlds coming up Nov 4, I am interested to see how it comes out.

Will 4 Y-wings make Top 4 or 8? Will a Tie Swarm be in the mix? K-wings?

I've beaten Y-wings with the BTL-A4 title and TLT three times, twice against a pair of them with an ace and once against four of them. It's really not difficult, since they're at low PS and working with the Y-wing dial. (The mixed lists were much stronger, since they required mixed strategies to beat and could cover their weaknesses.) Hit them with a fore element that can take a pounding and/or something you're willing to sacrifice, and at the same time you hit them with a maneuverable flanking element.

In that game against 4Y my opponent lost one Y-wing before it could attack, then lost a second Y-wing to the flanking element on the next round, and then it was just mopping up. I did lose one of the ships in the fore element, but that was more or less by design, and it happened too late to affect the game.

TLT without the Y-wing title are tougher to beat for me, since you have fewer safe approaches and they tend to engage less predictably. But you can also afford to joust with them (especially if you can manage a fast approach), or you can stand off and blow them up from range with ordnance, or you can flank them (as long as you brought AT or Sensor Jammer or a Fel-style stack of tokens).

(Krynn, who's misunderstanding? I'm not sure I follow, sorry.)

So - a lot of theory crafting about what works, but who has actually played against a 4BTL TLT Y-wing squad and won?

The last list I ran across had 2 PS4 Hired Guns and 2 PS2 Syndicate Thugs. He did not worry about stress too much, but ran far enough apart so he usually had at least 1 or 2 ships outside of Range 1 to use the TLT. K-Turn made him effective on turning and shooting the next round.

Assuming an experienced player is running this, it's that much harder to defend against and dice are fickle enough that they will fail when they are most needed.

With Worlds coming up Nov 4, I am interested to see how it comes out.

Will 4 Y-wings make Top 4 or 8? Will a Tie Swarm be in the mix? K-wings?

I've beaten Y-wings with the BTL-A4 title and TLT three times, twice against a pair of them with an ace and once against four of them. It's really not difficult, since they're at low PS and working with the Y-wing dial. (The mixed lists were much stronger, since they required mixed strategies to beat and could cover their weaknesses.) Hit them with a fore element that can take a pounding and/or something you're willing to sacrifice, and at the same time you hit them with a maneuverable flanking element.

In that game against 4Y my opponent lost one Y-wing before it could attack, then lost a second Y-wing to the flanking element on the next round, and then it was just mopping up. I did lose one of the ships in the fore element, but that was more or less by design, and it happened too late to affect the game.

TLT without the Y-wing title are tougher to beat for me, since you have fewer safe approaches and they tend to engage less predictably. But you can also afford to joust with them (especially if you can manage a fast approach), or you can stand off and blow them up from range with ordnance, or you can flank them (as long as you brought AT or Sensor Jammer or a Fel-style stack of tokens).

That's been my experience so far too. If I brought a pair of 3ATK ships I can out-joust the TLTs, and if I brought something with Boost I can outflank the BTLTs.

Mixed lists are the way to go. I've been tinkering with a lot of combos that use two PS4 TLT Y-wings or a pair of TLT/IA Wardens. I've got a lot of points tied up in the turrets but they can make them back relatively well. The Wardens in particular love to see other TLTs since they trade shots at Range 3 and then jump in with both feet to use their Primaries at Range 1 if able. And the Wardens hold up the longest against TLT fire vs Y-Wings or generic HWKs.

I like to use the rest of the list in a few different ways. You can take an Ace (Super Corran!), a solid Large ship (Moralo Eval in a YV-666 with HLC, K4, and Outlaw Tech covers TLT blind spots nicely), or a can of Spam (four Headhunters for me, please).

Again I think your misunderstanding.

It's not about it being hard to beat etc.

I won't argue that it's unbeatable.

However if your not prepared for it, just as he was, well don't expect a very exciting game Imo

My opponent just didn't have fun.

It wasn't that thrilling of a game.

And I'm not talking about one or two ships with tlt.

I mean yes it's a strong squad, and it works well, but for someone to sit there and play against it, it's not fun.

As he put it, it's a nuisance to deal with, and I can see his point.

And we can't make rules changes based on the subjectiveness of a couple people. I mean, hell, if we did that, primary weapon turrets would've been nerfed out of competiveness completely.

Strong list, sure. But it is not going to warp the meta like the Phantom did. Just because it helps take down a lot of what hurts the squads that hurt the TLTs themselves.

I'm repeating myself from this thread, but I think a lot of the current frustration is about the fact that TLTs hit the bests lists of the Wave 5-6 meta really, really hard.

And looking at the time scale, people spent about a year living in a fairly static metagame. Wave 6 didn't do anything really novel; the only high-achieving competitive Scum list was Brobots, which meant the lists to beat were still Wave 5-style two-ship combinations. And those squads (with the exception of Autothrusters + Sensor Jammer Brobots) are what TLT spam loves to face, and will probably take apart without looking like it's very difficult to do so.

That's... not a problem, I guess, but an issue... because a huge portion of X-wing's player base has a set of habits--not just of play, but of thinking about the game--that are based around those small, high-PS lists. I don't say "habit" as a value judgment, because it's the result of identifying a set of effective practices and working with them until they become ingrained. It's a pretty good definition of expertise, actually.

But now that expertise is less valuable, because FFG just heaved a big rock into the relatively calm X-wing pond. Once people have the chance to develop new expertise that's aware of TLT and accommodates it, I think the community will be much more okay with the upgrade. My challenge to the players who have been frustrated by TLT is to try thinking about it as an interesting problem to be solved, rather than a threat to the game--that might help ease the transition from the old metagame to the new one.

I'm repeating myself from this thread, but I think a lot of the current frustration is about the fact that TLTs hit the bests lists of the Wave 5-6 meta really, really hard.

And looking at the time scale, people spent about a year living in a fairly static metagame. Wave 6 didn't do anything really novel; the only high-achieving competitive Scum list was Brobots, which meant the lists to beat were still Wave 5-style two-ship combinations. And those squads (with the exception of Autothrusters + Sensor Jammer Brobots) are what TLT spam loves to face, and will probably take apart without looking like it's very difficult to do so.

That's... not a problem, I guess, but an issue... because a huge portion of X-wing's player base has a set of habits--not just of play, but of thinking about the game--that are based around those small, high-PS lists. I don't say "habit" as a value judgment, because it's the result of identifying a set of effective practices and working with them until they become ingrained. It's a pretty good definition of expertise, actually.

But now that expertise is less valuable, because FFG just heaved a big rock into the relatively calm X-wing pond. Once people have the chance to develop new expertise that's aware of TLT and accommodates it, I think the community will be much more okay with the upgrade. My challenge to the players who have been frustrated by TLT is to try thinking about it as an interesting problem to be solved, rather than a threat to the game--that might help ease the transition from the old metagame to the new one.

I'm stealing that line about "a problem to be solved" because that sums it up perfectly.

that are based around those small, high-PS lists.

Which is ironic really, considering I remember threads 2 or so years ago bemoaning the fact that there was never a reason to take a high PS pilot, the very idea of a 2 ship list was viewed as being nonsense, even the classic HSF was thought of as being a bit lite on number of ships.

that are based around those small, high-PS lists.

Which is ironic really, considering I remember threads 2 or so years ago bemoaning the fact that there was never a reason to take a high PS pilot, the very idea of a 2 ship list was viewed as being nonsense, even the classic HSF was thought of as being a bit lite on number of ships.

A more elegant list for a more civilised age. Before the Dark Times. Before the goldenrod.

that are based around those small, high-PS lists.

Which is ironic really, considering I remember threads 2 or so years ago bemoaning the fact that there was never a reason to take a high PS pilot, the very idea of a 2 ship list was viewed as being nonsense, even the classic HSF was thought of as being a bit lite on number of ships.

Yeah, but we're basically old men where X-wing is concerned. If you guess the game's audience has doubled every year (and I think that's an underestimate), that means about three-quarters of players weren't around for the Wave 3 release.

I'm repeating myself from this thread, but I think a lot of the current frustration is about the fact that TLTs hit the bests lists of the Wave 5-6 meta really, really hard.

And looking at the time scale, people spent about a year living in a fairly static metagame. Wave 6 didn't do anything really novel; the only high-achieving competitive Scum list was Brobots, which meant the lists to beat were still Wave 5-style two-ship combinations. And those squads (with the exception of Autothrusters + Sensor Jammer Brobots) are what TLT spam loves to face, and will probably take apart without looking like it's very difficult to do so.

That's... not a problem, I guess, but an issue... because a huge portion of X-wing's player base has a set of habits--not just of play, but of thinking about the game--that are based around those small, high-PS lists. I don't say "habit" as a value judgment, because it's the result of identifying a set of effective practices and working with them until they become ingrained. It's a pretty good definition of expertise, actually.

But now that expertise is less valuable, because FFG just heaved a big rock into the relatively calm X-wing pond. Once people have the chance to develop new expertise that's aware of TLT and accommodates it, I think the community will be much more okay with the upgrade. My challenge to the players who have been frustrated by TLT is to try thinking about it as an interesting problem to be solved, rather than a threat to the game--that might help ease the transition from the old metagame to the new one.

Well, seeing a wide range of builds getting canned by a rookie running 4 TLT in yesterday's tournament makes me think there's more to this than just "build around it." #2 ran 2x elite TLT and #3 and #4 also featured TLT. The regular scrubs lists not running TLT were at the bottom. And that was a tournament full of rookies and veterans.

Sure you can run glass cannons to take them out, but in a tournament setting you're setting yourself up for a thrashing by everyone *not* running TLT. THAT is the big problem with meta lists. You have to shoot yourself in the opening games to take them on in the finals.

So - a lot of theory crafting about what works, but who has actually played against a 4BTL TLT Y-wing squad and won?

The last list I ran across had 2 PS4 Hired Guns and 2 PS2 Syndicate Thugs. He did not worry about stress too much, but ran far enough apart so he usually had at least 1 or 2 ships outside of Range 1 to use the TLT. K-Turn made him effective on turning and shooting the next round.

Assuming an experienced player is running this, it's that much harder to defend against and dice are fickle enough that they will fail when they are most needed.

With Worlds coming up Nov 4, I am interested to see how it comes out.

Will 4 Y-wings make Top 4 or 8? Will a Tie Swarm be in the mix? K-wings?

I've beaten Y-wings with the BTL-A4 title and TLT three times, twice against a pair of them with an ace and once against four of them. It's really not difficult, since they're at low PS and working with the Y-wing dial. (The mixed lists were much stronger, since they required mixed strategies to beat and could cover their weaknesses.) Hit them with a fore element that can take a pounding and/or something you're willing to sacrifice, and at the same time you hit them with a maneuverable flanking element.

In that game against 4Y my opponent lost one Y-wing before it could attack, then lost a second Y-wing to the flanking element on the next round, and then it was just mopping up. I did lose one of the ships in the fore element, but that was more or less by design, and it happened too late to affect the game.

TLT without the Y-wing title are tougher to beat for me, since you have fewer safe approaches and they tend to engage less predictably. But you can also afford to joust with them (especially if you can manage a fast approach), or you can stand off and blow them up from range with ordnance, or you can flank them (as long as you brought AT or Sensor Jammer or a Fel-style stack of tokens).

What were you running against the 4Ys?

Did your opponent focus fire on a single attacker or split fire on different ships?

My trouble in the one game I played was getting enough firepower on a Y in the initial engagement to be able to knock one out quickly.

I ended up having 16-24 dice rolling at one ship each time.

I was running Soontir, Whisper and Dark Curse. I did not run Sensor Jammer at the time - planning for other lists.

Admittedly, I misjudged a turn and put DC on a rock, but poor green dice took out Soontir's stealth device and then he and Whisper ultimately fell.

I'd like another crack at them - which is why I am looking for winning strategies and builds.

I prefer Empire, but most of the time they can be fragile after the initial hits happen.

that are based around those small, high-PS lists.

Which is ironic really, considering I remember threads 2 or so years ago bemoaning the fact that there was never a reason to take a high PS pilot, the very idea of a 2 ship list was viewed as being nonsense, even the classic HSF was thought of as being a bit lite on number of ships.

Yeah, but we're basically old men where X-wing is concerned. If you guess the game's audience has doubled every year (and I think that's an underestimate), that means about three-quarters of players weren't around for the Wave 3 release.

well, back in the day, we didn't have any of these fancy arc-dodgers with their poltergeists and manual-pullers and what-not

back in my day, we flew nothing but academy pilots and we liked it!

but seriously, scoring changes and new tech (especially thrusters) have provided convincing counters to swarm dominance. FFG just went a tad too far in the other direction with the phantom and Wave 5

we're slowly getting back to an ideal game-state

I'm repeating myself from this thread, but I think a lot of the current frustration is about the fact that TLTs hit the bests lists of the Wave 5-6 meta really, really hard.

And looking at the time scale, people spent about a year living in a fairly static metagame. Wave 6 didn't do anything really novel; the only high-achieving competitive Scum list was Brobots, which meant the lists to beat were still Wave 5-style two-ship combinations. And those squads (with the exception of Autothrusters + Sensor Jammer Brobots) are what TLT spam loves to face, and will probably take apart without looking like it's very difficult to do so.

That's... not a problem, I guess, but an issue... because a huge portion of X-wing's player base has a set of habits--not just of play, but of thinking about the game--that are based around those small, high-PS lists. I don't say "habit" as a value judgment, because it's the result of identifying a set of effective practices and working with them until they become ingrained. It's a pretty good definition of expertise, actually.

But now that expertise is less valuable, because FFG just heaved a big rock into the relatively calm X-wing pond. Once people have the chance to develop new expertise that's aware of TLT and accommodates it, I think the community will be much more okay with the upgrade. My challenge to the players who have been frustrated by TLT is to try thinking about it as an interesting problem to be solved, rather than a threat to the game--that might help ease the transition from the old metagame to the new one.

Well, seeing a wide range of builds getting canned by a rookie running 4 TLT in yesterday's tournament makes me think there's more to this than just "build around it." #2 ran 2x elite TLT and #3 and #4 also featured TLT. The regular scrubs lists not running TLT were at the bottom. And that was a tournament full of rookies and veterans.

Sure you can run glass cannons to take them out, but in a tournament setting you're setting yourself up for a thrashing by everyone *not* running TLT. THAT is the big problem with meta lists. You have to shoot yourself in the opening games to take them on in the finals.

People just may say the hell with it and instead of trying to find ways to counter it. Along with others, and just run 4 ywing

I'm repeating myself from this thread, but I think a lot of the current frustration is about the fact that TLTs hit the bests lists of the Wave 5-6 meta really, really hard.

And looking at the time scale, people spent about a year living in a fairly static metagame. Wave 6 didn't do anything really novel; the only high-achieving competitive Scum list was Brobots, which meant the lists to beat were still Wave 5-style two-ship combinations. And those squads (with the exception of Autothrusters + Sensor Jammer Brobots) are what TLT spam loves to face, and will probably take apart without looking like it's very difficult to do so.

That's... not a problem, I guess, but an issue... because a huge portion of X-wing's player base has a set of habits--not just of play, but of thinking about the game--that are based around those small, high-PS lists. I don't say "habit" as a value judgment, because it's the result of identifying a set of effective practices and working with them until they become ingrained. It's a pretty good definition of expertise, actually.

But now that expertise is less valuable, because FFG just heaved a big rock into the relatively calm X-wing pond. Once people have the chance to develop new expertise that's aware of TLT and accommodates it, I think the community will be much more okay with the upgrade. My challenge to the players who have been frustrated by TLT is to try thinking about it as an interesting problem to be solved, rather than a threat to the game--that might help ease the transition from the old metagame to the new one.

Well, seeing a wide range of builds getting canned by a rookie running 4 TLT in yesterday's tournament makes me think there's more to this than just "build around it." #2 ran 2x elite TLT and #3 and #4 also featured TLT. The regular scrubs lists not running TLT were at the bottom. And that was a tournament full of rookies and veterans.

Sure you can run glass cannons to take them out, but in a tournament setting you're setting yourself up for a thrashing by everyone *not* running TLT. THAT is the big problem with meta lists. You have to shoot yourself in the opening games to take them on in the finals.

That's one thing I'm afraid of actually

People just may say the hell with it and instead of trying to find ways to counter it. Along with others, and just run 4 ywing

Let's be honest, this is what usually happens. Far more people gravitate towards playing the 'easy' meta list than the harder to play counter-list. It's called meta-list for a reason.

Fun story: About 1.5 years ago i tried to teach my little cousin the game.

For his second game ever i gave him Han+3z versus my random squad (i think it was 2 interceptors and some ties). In his second game ever he beat me with Han+3z. That's when i first realized this game was headed towards meta lists. There will always be a handful dominant squads from this point in the game, they will never balance everything to equality with new waves coming out every couple months.

Yeah, I've found myself looking at 4 TLT builds with the ships I currently have. (2 HWK, 1Y, 1K)

A LOT of Y-Wings are being loaned for games at the moment.

Yeah, I've found myself looking at 4 TLT builds with the ships I currently have. (2 HWK, 1Y, 1K)

A LOT of Y-Wings are being loaned for games at the moment.

Right? If you'd asked me a year or more ago (even when they announced the BTL-A4 title!) "would you ever seriously consider fielding four Y-Wings at once" I would've stared at you as though you'd grown a fourth head. Then I would have calmly asked if you'd ever played the game before.

As-is, 4YTLT isn't my play style, but I don't have anything against it. It's solid.

Again I think your misunderstanding.

It's not about it being hard to beat etc.

I won't argue that it's unbeatable.

However if your not prepared for it, just as he was, well don't expect a very exciting game Imo

My opponent just didn't have fun.

It wasn't that thrilling of a game.

And I'm not talking about one or two ships with tlt.

I mean yes it's a strong squad, and it works well, but for someone to sit there and play against it, it's not fun.

As he put it, it's a nuisance to deal with, and I can see his point.

The thing is that you won't see it all the times because the counters are many and easily integrated into your lists. Pure quad TLTs won't stay tournament relevant forever, because when they meet a counter build they fall quickly and painfully. For now they catch people off guard, but once the average tounament player comes to expect them their end has come. Then they will be a solid backbone as single or pairs in mixed lists, whlie full spam won't give you reliability, which is good. The list is not a Phantom and too easily countered to become omnipresent.

What I like about TLT is, a rookie player CAN be competitive with it. Getting a win because a player flew suboptimally is not nearly as satisfying as beating someone who played their list the same or better than you, yourself, would have played their list. Y Wings have a few less movement options, and TLT covers a good, wide, area, so it doesn't take too much for players to become proficient, which is a GOOD thing.

The best part is, there is also room to grow with the 4 x TLT list or lists toting a pair of them. Varying setups based on enemy list, learning when to K Turn or to turn TOWARDS the enemy and use the Range 1 primary, using rock coverage. These are all skills to learn and will set apart good players from great players.

New is good, in that, we have new things to learn to play and beat, which is much better than trying to beat the same old thing, not that I had a problem with the other stuff, haha.

What I like about TLT is, a rookie player CAN be competitive with it. Getting a win because a player flew suboptimally is not nearly as satisfying as beating someone who played their list the same or better than you, yourself, would have played their list. Y Wings have a few less movement options, and TLT covers a good, wide, area, so it doesn't take too much for players to become proficient, which is a GOOD thing.

The best part is, there is also room to grow with the 4 x TLT list or lists toting a pair of them. Varying setups based on enemy list, learning when to K Turn or to turn TOWARDS the enemy and use the Range 1 primary, using rock coverage. These are all skills to learn and will set apart good players from great players.

New is good, in that, we have new things to learn to play and beat, which is much better than trying to beat the same old thing, not that I had a problem with the other stuff, haha.

I think the words skill floor and skill ceiling have been largely missing from the TLT debate. Which is a bit surprising since they're a crucial part of the topic.

Well, seeing a wide range of builds getting canned by a rookie running 4 TLT in yesterday's tournament makes me think there's more to this than just "build around it." #2 ran 2x elite TLT and #3 and #4 also featured TLT. The regular scrubs lists not running TLT were at the bottom. And that was a tournament full of rookies and veterans.

But TLT spam and two elite ships with TLT are fundamentally very different lists. That's like saying someone running five Alpha Squadron Pilots + Autothrusters won, and someone else with loaded Fel/Jax did well, and therefore Interceptors are a problem.

Moreover, what I'm saying is that many veterans--defining "veterans" as "competitive players who have been around for a year or two"--are actually at a disadvantage when fighting TLTs, because they're building lists and playing in ways that play directly to the strengths of TLT spam. Fighting strength with strength, even if you win, is exhausting.

Sure you can run glass cannons to take them out, but in a tournament setting you're setting yourself up for a thrashing by everyone *not* running TLT. THAT is the big problem with meta lists. You have to shoot yourself in the opening games to take them on in the finals.

Again, summarizing this post:

• Given a choice between increasing your list's Agility and increasing its hit points, take the hit points.
• Look at defensive upgrades that work more than once per round.
• Keep your individual ships relatively inexpensive (and, by implication, run more of them rather than fewer).
• Close quickly, forcing the TLT player to adapt and react rather than setting the tempo.
• It only takes a moderate PS bid to take advantage of the PS2 that often accompanies TLTs.
• Use repositioning actions to exploit the donut hole, forcing TLTs to split fire between multiple targets.

What were you running against the 4Ys?

Did your opponent focus fire on a single attacker or split fire on different ships?

My trouble in the one game I played was getting enough firepower on a Y in the initial engagement to be able to knock one out quickly.

I ended up having 16-24 dice rolling at one ship each time.

I was running Soontir, Whisper and Dark Curse. I did not run Sensor Jammer at the time - planning for other lists.

Admittedly, I misjudged a turn and put DC on a rock, but poor green dice took out Soontir's stealth device and then he and Whisper ultimately fell.

I'd like another crack at them - which is why I am looking for winning strategies and builds.

I prefer Empire, but most of the time they can be fragile after the initial hits happen.

It was a while back, but I think it was this:

(It's not a great list; I was experimenting. Also, I have a few versions of this list, so some of the upgrades might be wrong.)

Fel was doing his focus/focus/evade thing out of arc at Range 3 during the initial merge, and the shuttle was standing off at Range 3 while the Advanced was at Range 1 with focus and TL. My opponent went for the shuttle first because he could focus fire on it, rather than splitting. That might have been a tactical error, but Fel wasn't likely to get killed by just two TLTs, and neither was Colzet, so...

In any case, the shuttle survived the round with 3 or 4 hull left (and died later, while I was trying to clean up the last Y-wing). Fel stripped a Y-wing's shields, and Colzet nailed it with his rockets for three or four hits, and Yorr put it away.

My current all-comers list looks like this:

I've only fought mixed TLT lists with this (that is, no 4Y spam), but I plan to surrender initiative to TLTs and force them to deploy first. Then Palpatine deploys so he can (hopefully) hit Range 3 to 1-2 TLTs, Jax deploys to hit Range 1 on the joust (preferably at an angle, for arc-dodging purposes) while Echo floats off to the side ready to pounce. If I screw up and can't place Jax in a donut hole, then it's likely one of the arc-dodgers will get toasted by 4 TLTs on the first turn.

But those seams are pretty easy to find with Phantom + Interceptor, and if I can keep both alive through that first turn I'm hitting them with 10-12 dice and support from Palpatine, so dropping a Y-wing a turn is pretty reliable.

I think the words skill floor and skill ceiling have been largely missing from the TLT debate. Which is a bit surprising since they're a crucial part of the topic.

I'd go so far as to say they are the topic. A lot of the complaints leveraged against quad TLTs amount to "they're boring to fly or face" and I don't think that's fair. If you're new to the game, as phild0 pointed out, they're something you can wrap your head around pretty quickly! Or they seem that way at least. And if you're new to the game and doing moderately okay in your first few games you're probably going to enjoy yourself a bit more! But, there's only so much you can do with four TLTs on the board, and eventually branching out will result in stronger list building.

I think it's no coincidence that the new core set appears alongside the TLT and at the end of the metagame dominated by fully-loaded Large turrets.

Fel was doing his focus/focus/evade thing out of arc at Range 3 during the initial merge, and the shuttle was standing off at Range 3 while the Advanced was at Range 1 with focus and TL. My opponent went for the shuttle first because he could focus fire on it, rather than splitting. That might have been a tactical error, but Fel wasn't likely to get killed by just two TLTs, and neither was Colzet, so...

In any case, the shuttle survived the round with 3 or 4 hull left (and died later, while I was trying to clean up the last Y-wing). Fel stripped a Y-wing's shields, and Colzet nailed it with his rockets for three or four hits, and Yorr put it away.

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

I've only fought mixed TLT lists with this (that is, no 4Y spam), but I plan to surrender initiative to TLTs and force them to deploy first. Then Palpatine deploys so he can (hopefully) hit Range 3 to 1-2 TLTs, Jax deploys to hit Range 1 on the joust (preferably at an angle, for arc-dodging purposes) while Echo floats off to the side ready to pounce. If I screw up and can't place Jax in a donut hole, then it's likely one of the arc-dodgers will get toasted by 4 TLTs on the first turn.

But those seams are pretty easy to find with Phantom + Interceptor, and if I can keep both alive through that first turn I'm hitting them with 10-12 dice and support from Palpatine, so dropping a Y-wing a turn is pretty reliable.

On the first list, it sounds like good flying and some good rolls allowed you to take down the first Y-wing. Not always going to have a range 3 shot taking out 3 shields, but I can see the rockets doing major damage. Still, a few less red dice and 1-2 more green and the Y-wing survives to get a shot on the shuttle.

The BTL upgrade also gives additional dice to the Y-wings, so attempting to take out the shuttle early was likely not a bad choice.

The thing I hate is that a lucky shot can make the game spiral down hill quickly. I have had someone 1-shot Soontir at range 3 due to rolling 4 blanks and getting crits through with double damage. I know it's a chance you take, but happens less often with ships like the Ywings.

4x advanced with AC and clusters is totes gonna be their bane it's simple to use you can have the worst dice rolling day of your life and still hit.

Played them for the first time tonight. Boba/ ig managed to get a modified win but no where near wiping out the other 2 and that was with ig arc dodging well

Definitely hard to play against but bloody boring to play.

Arc dodging?

So they had the Btl upgrade?

32 attack dice? so the turrets were locked?