And in all honesty it wasn't that fun.

My opponent wasn't prepared for it and conceded during the game because he knew he wasn't going to win.

Frankly flying it didn't seem all that fun and I felt kind of bad for springing that on him, but wanted to see how it flew.

There really isn't much thought if any needed to fly this.

Idk but I am a little disappointed with this.

It's a strong list yes

All same ps.

Does decent dmg

A lot of hp

Etc. Etc

But even flying it, I can easily see how this would not be fun to fly against.

You have to get into that range one but even so a smart player will spread them put so he'll alway have something shooting

I know I know the age old argument, build something new, sensors jammer, autothrusters etc etc, and they have a weak spot

Even so sensors jammer and autothrusters isn't always going to work

I roll 3 hits you change one to a focus but one hit still gets through, or some with autothrusters eventually fel will have no more focus or evades and with 8 consecutive attack he's bound to roll all focus/blanks when out of modifier

As was stated in another thread it's not just the fact that it does do good dmg, it wasn't fun for my opponent to sit there and watch me roll 32 dice, plus have to eat through 32 hp,

I was really sick of the two ship meta and turrets to be honest, but is this something worse?

I wonder at the next store championship how many people will fly 4ys

I mean instead of trying to come up with ways to beat it, along with other lists, for some it just be easier to fly four ys

Then it's just a dice fest.

I mean if you want to win it's a good strong list.

Not unbeatable I'm sure but it does work well, so I can see the desire to use it

I haven't flown against it, but I can see what some people mean.

So you caught someone with a list for the first time. That sounds like a good way to assess the quality of a list, how it stands up to the unprepared.

Well as I mentioned even flying it didn't seem that fun.

Like I said little to no thought was required when setting dials.

Every round I had my dials set rather fast as I didn't have to put in a lot of thought of what I was going to do.

Also for my opponent it wasn't just the fact I caught him off guard with it

Just the fact of sitting there while someone else rolled 24 dice wasn't that much fun.

I only have a couple of people here to play with and this I believe is just one of those lists that'll be avoided (unless going away for tournament) as it's just not fun.

Even if I had given him a heads up I don't think it be much fun to fly/against

I just wonder what will this do for the game?

I've seen lots of debate about it which is why i decided to try it.

Is it like people say?

While it was only one game it did seem like others have said

In a tournament you can do 1 of two things

Build a list to try to counter it plus other lists, or do the easy way and fly 4 tlt.

Not everyone is going to fly 4 ys I know that, but i can understand why a lot may

So you caught someone with a list for the first time. That sounds like a good way to assess the quality of a list, how it stands up to the unprepared.

Exactly. Competitive players knew this was going to be a thing for people with no skill. It can be beat....and easily. Did it change the meta....a little. If a player doesn't make a list that has some countermeasures for a 4 TLT then they deserve to be bent over. This is a list that will go as quickly as it came because they only have 1 defense die each and they will go pretty quick to high PS focus fire.

My obsidian tie swarm and I hope and pray to see many TLT Ys.

The list is pretty solid, nobody is doubting that. But just like the first time someone hits Brobots or even Fat Han, it all seems insurmountable.

People said Fat Han wasn't fun to play, I've enjoyed flying it and flying against it.

It's all in the eye of the beholder.

What was your opponent fielding?

Storm Squadron Pilot — TIE Advanced 23 Cluster Missiles 4 Accuracy Corrector 0 TIE/x1 0 Ship Total: 27 Storm Squadron Pilot — TIE Advanced 23 Concussion Missiles 4 Accuracy Corrector 0 TIE/x1 0 Ship Total: 27 Storm Squadron Pilot — TIE Advanced 23 Accuracy Corrector 0 TIE/x1 0 Ship Total: 23 Storm Squadron Pilot — TIE Advanced 23 Accuracy Corrector 0 TIE/x1 0 Ship Total: 23

Hit first, hit harder kill one ship before it ever fires and cripple a second.

Sure if your not ready for it then it's a nasty shock but it's really not that hard to counter.

My obsidian tie swarm and I hope and pray to see many TLT Ys.

The list is pretty solid, nobody is doubting that. But just like the first time someone hits Brobots or even Fat Han, it all seems insurmountable.

People said Fat Han wasn't fun to play, I've enjoyed flying it and flying against it.

It's all in the eye of the beholder.

Good.....good.

Has anyone had experienced pitting 4x TLT Y-Wings against 4x Y-Wings with BTL-A4, Agromech, and ICT? The TLTs will have better range, but if the warthogs can avoid a range 3 engagement on the first round and close range the ion turret would make staying at range 1 of the TLTs very easy.

Well as I mentioned even flying it didn't seem that fun.

Like I said little to no thought was required when setting dials.

Every round I had my dials set rather fast as I didn't have to put in a lot of thought of what I was going to do.

Also for my opponent it wasn't just the fact I caught him off guard with it

Just the fact of sitting there while someone else rolled 32 dice wasn't that much fun.

I only have a couple of people here to play with and this I believe is just one of those lists that'll be avoided (unless going away for tournament) as it's just not fun.

Even if I had given him a heads up I don't think it be much fun to fly/against

I just wonder what will this do for the game?

I've seen lots of debate about it which is why i decided to try it.

Is it like people say?

While it was only one game it did seem like others have said

In a tournament you can do 1 of two things

Build a list to try to counter it plus other lists, or do the easy way and fly 4 tlt.

Not everyone is going to fly 4 ys I know that, but i can understand why a lot may

In the end, your local meta is the only one that matters if you only ever play in that meta (which is perfectly cool). If your local folks aren't fans, there's nothing wrong with not playing that squad, but it's probably not a good way to judge the quality of the squad.

What was your opponent fielding?

Can't remember all the upgrades but he had tlt advanced slam, some bombs and missles on marinda, and Poe had the Droid let's you regen for focus and some other upgrades.

It was a bad match up to start with but even so I can understand his feeling when he said he didn't want to fly against that again

What do you want to tell us Krynn?

That the list is OP?

That it's not fun to fly?

That your opponent wasn't good/lucky enough to beat it?

What do you want?

A nerf?

To remove it from game?

A counter to it?

Just general ranting?

I don't see the point of your post. You seem to have a negative attitude to the list but you don't go as far as to say what you like or don't, except that you say it's not fun. Well thats subjective. I flew against it and it was fun to me.

I saw a thread yesterday where someone took the pain to show the different donuts of all the Y-Wings involved in a 4 TLT list. That was helpful! And shows us ways to play and to beat 4 TLT.

no it's not worse than the 2-ship spam if said 2-ship involves a PWT

TLTs can objectively be outplayed. That fact that you can limit their shots at all (Either via doughnut whole or keeping at range, because a "Smart player" spread out for doughnut holes won't be able to effectively concentrate fire if you don't dive right in)

At PS 2 with no post-manuever actions, 4 TLTs represents a squad in which the player has to make decisions with actual gameplay consequences and rely on some honest foresight rather than reactive large-ship boosts. I know we're all used to turrets having their cake and eating it too, but TLTs were expertly designed with actual trade-offs and weakness to things besides simply throwing more dice at them.

this idea that TLTs are just a dice-fest comes form an incomplete understanding of how positioning affects minimum range turrets, or possibly trauma from playing against turrets that literally cannot be dodged and are guaranteed dice fests

TLTs will not be replacing 2-ship builds. Their impact on the meta is, thus far, predicated on nothing but a massive overreaction and a single victory at a nations which, turns out, didn't even involve 4 tlts.

It does, however, promise to be a solid card that may challenge the idiocy of fat PWTs and encourage meta diversity by bringing up the stock of higher-than-PS-2 generics

not that I disagree with the idea that they might be boring, though. Fun is entirely subjective, and I personally couldn't fly 4 TLTs for the life of me. THat has nothing to do with TLTs, however, and more to do with my OCD which renders me unable to fly lists without at least one boost/roll/de-cloak/SLAM ship

I much prefer TLT Ks

What was your opponent fielding?

Miranda and Poe

Can't remember all the upgrades but he had tlt advanced slam, some bombs and missles on marinda, and Poe had the Droid let's you regen for focus and some other upgrades.

It was a bad match up to start with but even so I can understand his feeling when he said he didn't want to fly against that again

Well you're not wrong, quad TLT loves to see two-ship lists. Too many points in one ship and you lose the damage efficiency you can field over the TLTs.

And if possible, respectfully suggest to your opponent that perhaps they should learn to counter the quad TLT list instead of asking to not fly against it. Or have them fly it and try to understand both sides of the list.

What do you want to tell us Krynn?

That the list is OP?

That it's not fun to fly?

That your opponent wasn't good/lucky enough to beat it?

What do you want?

A nerf?

To remove it from game?

A counter to it?

Just general ranting?

I don't see the point of your post. You seem to have a negative attitude to the list but you don't go as far as to say what you like or don't, except that you say it's not fun. Well thats subjective. I flew against it and it was fun to me.

I saw a thread yesterday where someone took the pain to show the different donuts of all the Y-Wings involved in a 4 TLT list. That was helpful! And shows us ways to play and to beat 4 TLT.

Maybe he just wanted to talk about it and see how others felt about his experience

What do you want to tell us Krynn?

That the list is OP?

That it's not fun to fly?

That your opponent wasn't good/lucky enough to beat it?

What do you want?

A nerf?

To remove it from game?

A counter to it?

Just general ranting?

I don't see the point of your post. You seem to have a negative attitude to the list but you don't go as far as to say what you like or don't, except that you say it's not fun. Well thats subjective. I flew against it and it was fun to me.

I saw a thread yesterday where someone took the pain to show the different donuts of all the Y-Wings involved in a 4 TLT list. That was helpful! And shows us ways to play and to beat 4 TLT.

Maybe he just wanted to talk about it and see how others felt about his experience

I just wanted to chime in with my two cents now that I've at least seen it on the table.

It's definitely not something I'd use against a new player, or anyone that I play against.

Don't really see how I'm coming off negative.

I'm just saying that my opponent didnt find it fun to fly against. And I didn't find it all that thrilling to be flying it, but that the way it is for some now

no it's not worse than the 2-ship spam if said 2-ship involves a PWT

TLTs can objectively be outplayed. That fact that you can limit their shots at all (Either via doughnut whole or keeping at range, because a "Smart player" spread out for doughnut holes won't be able to effectively concentrate fire if you don't dive right in)

At PS 2 with no post-manuever actions, 4 TLTs represents a squad in which the player has to make decisions with actual gameplay consequences and rely on some honest foresight rather than reactive large-ship boosts. I know we're all used to turrets having their cake and eating it too, but TLTs were expertly designed with actual trade-offs and weakness to things besides simply throwing more dice at them.

TLTs will not be replacing 2-ship builds. Their impact on the meta is, thus far, predicated on nothing but a massive overreaction and a single victory at a nations which, turns out, didn't even involve 4 tlts.

It does, however, promise to be a solid card that may challenge the idiocy of fat PWTs and encourage meta diversity by bringing up the stock of higher-than-PS-2 generics

not that I disagree with the idea that they might be boring, though. Fun is entirely subjective, and I personally couldn't fly 4 TLTs for the life of me. THat has nothing to do with TLTs, however, and more to do with my OCD about not flying any boost/roll/de-cloak/SLAM ships

I much prefer TLT Ks

Ah yes you got 100/100 there fickle.

I tried Warden squadron and Miranda with TLTs and that was a ton of fun. Slam is really cool there to arc-dodge some turns after dropping a bomb, especially with Miranda.

Here's my question: of the points you mention in your post, which ones are true about quad TLT but not about BBBBZ, and why?

What do you want to tell us Krynn?

That the list is OP?

That it's not fun to fly?

That your opponent wasn't good/lucky enough to beat it?

What do you want?

A nerf?

To remove it from game?

A counter to it?

Just general ranting?

I don't see the point of your post. You seem to have a negative attitude to the list but you don't go as far as to say what you like or don't, except that you say it's not fun. Well thats subjective. I flew against it and it was fun to me.

I saw a thread yesterday where someone took the pain to show the different donuts of all the Y-Wings involved in a 4 TLT list. That was helpful! And shows us ways to play and to beat 4 TLT.

Maybe he just wanted to talk about it and see how others felt about his experience

That's pretty it

I just wanted to chime in with my two cents now that I've at least seen it on the table.

It's definitely not something I'd use against a new player, or anyone that I play against.

Don't really see how I'm coming off negative.

I'm just saying that my opponent didnt find it fun to fly against. And I didn't find it all that thrilling to be flying it, but that the way it is for some now

I think you sounded pretty salty about it. At least in your first few posts.

But i will not insist on the fact you should have posted it in battle reports rather than here to share your experience only, since i tend to get anecdotical too from time to time.

Ion's are the counter to TLT list that I have been using. Last night I hit the lead Y-wings with Ion Pulse Missiles from 2 Z-95's. Both front y's went forward since ION'ed and the other two had to break formation. Then I rushed forward to close the range, I was able to take out 2 y-wings, that got ioned. Then I chased down the two that broke formation. But even with that I barely won.

It's interesting to me that the thing Y-wings were originally known for are now their bane. ION's

Ah yes you got 100/100 there fickle.

I tried Warden squadron and Miranda with TLTs and that was a ton of fun. Slam is really cool there to arc-dodge some turns after dropping a bomb, especially with Miranda.

ah, the TLT warden

so inefficient

but so **** fun that it doesn't matter

Ah yes you got 100/100 there fickle.

I tried Warden squadron and Miranda with TLTs and that was a ton of fun. Slam is really cool there to arc-dodge some turns after dropping a bomb, especially with Miranda.

ah, the TLT warden

so inefficient

but so **** fun that it doesn't matter

Try 3 with just recon and TLT and add a bomb or two for the remaining few points.

Then don't fly them in formation all the time like 4Y TLT but use Slam a lot. I know it sounds illogical, but i have managed to outmaneuver much more nimble ships in avway that they could not react to, even the turn after. Then the list is not at all so bad anymore. And still fun!

Here's my question: of the points you mention in your post, which ones are true about quad TLT but not about BBBBZ, and why?

Well bbbbz required at least to have things in their arc

Were much more susceptible to succumb to arc dodgers.

Also unlike bbbbz if you got behind them they had no shot.

Flying the tlt y, I just felt Meh

Like so long as I didn't fly straight at my opponent, and etc it wasn't all that hard to fly.

At least with bbbbz it's a list that does require some practice. I've seen it torn apart by fel and chireaneau.

I wonder if fel and chireaneau could tear four tlt y

Not saying it can't, but could it?

That I really don't know

Either way, to use it, wasn't a whole lot of fun and I can see the argument to those who flew against it

Has anyone had experienced pitting 4x TLT Y-Wings against 4x Y-Wings with BTL-A4, Agromech, and ICT? The TLTs will have better range, but if the warthogs can avoid a range 3 engagement on the first round and close range the ion turret would make staying at range 1 of the TLTs very easy.

I haven't tried 4v4, but I played a game with 2 Warthogs plus help against 2 TLT Ys plus help. The Warthogs wreck TLT Ys if you get them in arc, because you do more average damage and you can avoid return fire & very very easily keep them in arc once they're ioned.

At my store last night 5 players 3 4 TLT lists. Agh!!!

I went 1-1, never played my third game. Frankly I was bored after facing it. I think it's worse then the Pancake list in boredom.

After I dropped, 2 players with TLT played each other. It was like watching grass grow. It was possibly the most boring game I have ever watched. Both players deployed in corners and both place all the roids in the middle. Then each turned hard and started the Merry Go Round around the outside of the board. Passing each other broad side the whole time each had the same list 4 tlt's with the Scum mech that makes your 3 hard turns green. The store owner was great he had recorded a Merry go round music set and played it in a loop the entire game. Awesome!!!

Yuck! Overall one of the guys one, but I left at watching two grown men afraid to engage each other in the game. Because let's face it, why should they

Update:

My friend just told me the game ended in a draw, both sides kill 1 y-wing. Ha!