Is there any way to increase a character's Force Rating other than taking the Force Rating talent?

If the answer is "no", then how are any specializations that don't have the Force Rating talent in their tree even remotely viable as starting specializations?

To the best of my knowledge the answer is no. As for how specializations with out are viable .... likely because you're not meant to take just one. And likely because you aren't going to buy all the way down to the Force Rating talent during character creation so it ultimately doesn't matter. I mean sure you could spend all of your XP on working all the way down you could do it, thought that means you likely didn't improve anything else.

Thus overall ..... for a starting specialization it's kinda moot. You can move out to get that Force Talent later.

If the answer is "no", then how are any specializations that don't have the Force Rating talent in their tree even remotely viable as starting specializations?

Why wouldn't they be viable? You can play the game with a mix of characters from the other two game lines, they don't get a Force Rating (though they can develop one). The game scales really well.

Because anybody can buy a Universal spec i.e. Exile or Emergent and get a FR+1 talent pretty easily. Actually depending on the type of game you are in, the Exile and Emergent trees hold up really well when you compare them to the new F&D stuff.

Because anybody can buy a Universal spec i.e. Exile or Emergent and get a FR+1 talent pretty easily. Actually depending on the type of game you are in, the Exile and Emergent trees hold up really well when you compare them to the new F&D stuff.

I'll second this.

I'm playing a Seeker/Ataru Striker, and took Force Emergent as my second spec for the character as it offered a fairly quick path to Force Rating (which I wound up not taking) but also ranks in Grit and Toughened (thinks you desperately need as an Ataru Striker) as well as Uncanny Reactions and Uncanny Senses.

Exile's pretty good too if you want a Force user that's got some fairly esoteric abilities related to Force use in addition to talents related to surviving on the fringes.

Also consider that, despite being the Force user book, not every F&D character NEEDS a high Force Rating, especially while they're going through their first specialization. I'm playing an Artisan that works perfectly well without any Force powers as a purely awesome Mechanic type character. I use the one Force die for Imbue Item and that's a 15 point talent.

Because anybody can buy a Universal spec i.e. Exile or Emergent and get a FR+1 talent pretty easily. Actually depending on the type of game you are in, the Exile and Emergent trees hold up really well when you compare them to the new F&D stuff.

It's still 75 points to get a +1 Force Rating this way, not even including the cost of the specialization. That's not really better than purchasing any other second specialization.

If the answer is "no", then how are any specializations that don't have the Force Rating talent in their tree even remotely viable as starting specializations?

Why wouldn't they be viable? You can play the game with a mix of characters from the other two game lines, they don't get a Force Rating (though they can develop one). The game scales really well.

Sorry, I guess I should have been more verbose.

The only people I ever roleplay with are extreme min-max number cruncher types. (As in, they've won the D&D national championships, several of them work on the D&D line for WotC, etc.). When I say "viable", I mean "competitive against the other players in my group so I am not noticeably weaker than they are".

I also should have been more explicit that I as specifically talking about a traditional Jedi as depicted in the movies and Clone Wars: wields a lightsaber, uses multiple force powers, etc.

My bad for using shorthand that would only have been understood by my friends.

In terms of pro-from-dover character design:

Mystic: Seer and Consular: Scholar both have two force rating talents in their trees.

They will take you to FR 3 even with the FR being absent from (most) saber specs.

If you take Consular: Niman Disciple as your saber spec, you do get a FR bumb.

So, Scholar + Niman Disciple is a (relatively) fast road to FR 4. Add Seer for FR 6!

I don't think FR should be the sole, or even key, concern though.

Basic Jedi: FR 3, sense-enhance-move with some mods, and dug into a saber spec.

Let me be a ninja-leaping psychic with a laser sword and I'm happy....

In terms of pro-from-dover character design:

Mystic: Seer and Consular: Scholar both have two force rating talents in their trees.

They will take you to FR 3 even with the FR being absent from (most) saber specs.

If you take Consular: Niman Disciple as your saber spec, you do get a FR bumb.

So, Scholar + Niman Disciple is a (relatively) fast road to FR 4. Add Seer for FR 6!

I don't think FR should be the sole, or even key, concern though.

Basic Jedi: FR 3, sense-enhance-move with some mods, and dug into a saber spec.

Let me be a ninja-leaping psychic with a laser sword and I'm happy....

I'm sure you meant Consular: Sage

And yes, FR is only a priority if you want to play a "sorcerer" type of Jedi. For a Saber Duelist or even for a more average one, FR 2 is fine (and you'll probably end up with FR 3).

As for Emergent and the 75 xp down to the FR talent, well... if you have a look, there's more than a pair of trees that need more than 75 xp to get down to it, and probably they're in-career (Universal specs are).

I'm a big fan of Exile: Universal spec, +1 melee/ranged defense, Intense focus, removing/adding black/blue dice...

In terms of pro-from-dover character design:

Mystic: Seer and Consular: Scholar both have two force rating talents in their trees.

[snip]

I'm sure you meant Consular: Sage

[snip]

I stand copy-edited!

The only people I ever roleplay with are extreme min-max number cruncher types. (As in, they've won the D&D national championships, several of them work on the D&D line for WotC, etc.). When I say "viable", I mean "competitive against the other players in my group so I am not noticeably weaker than they are".

Ah, my condolences jk, you can still have fun. You don't have to have a high Force rating to get a lot out of the Force. Focus on Enhance, the left side of Sense, the Seek Control upgrade...basically anything else that lets you Commit a Force die rather than roll. Sure, it's harder to do flashy stuff, but who needs flash? Meanwhile they will be lacking in the areas you are strong in: many of your skills will be boosted; your Agility or Brawn can be increased as needed; you'll gain significant mobility; and enemies will roll more Threats and Despairs against you. Not to mention, all the non-Force-rating specs have Lightsaber as a career skill, meaning you won't waste XP on boosting it.

Seriously, none of the non-Force rating specs are at a disadvantage.

Edit: also, basic powers like Move are still useful for moving small objects, retrieving dropped items, etc. If you're not afraid to swallow a dark pip now and then, it's a very useful utility.

I also should have been more explicit that I as specifically talking about a traditional Jedi as depicted in the movies and Clone Wars: wields a lightsaber, uses multiple force powers, etc.

About this: the game scales so that mixed groups of all types can play together. What this means is that such Jedi have earned a considerable amount of XP. There are varying opinions on how much XP you need to emulate what you see in TCW, but you can get pretty far with Enhance, Sense, and basic Move. Your GM might let you start at "Knight Level", which is basically starting with an extra 150XP after chargen, after which (and again, opinions vary on this) you might be close to an Ahsoka-Season 1 character.

Sorry, I guess I should have been more verbose.

The only people I ever roleplay with are extreme min-max number cruncher types. (As in, they've won the D&D national championships, several of them work on the D&D line for WotC, etc.). When I say "viable", I mean "competitive against the other players in my group so I am not noticeably weaker than they are".

I also should have been more explicit that I as specifically talking about a traditional Jedi as depicted in the movies and Clone Wars: wields a lightsaber, uses multiple force powers, etc.

My bad for using shorthand that would only have been understood by my friends.

What do you even mean by competitive? This isn't a contest. There aren't Force and Destiny tournaments. This isn't a good game to min/max in and playing a Force User is not a good way to min/max. You'll be splitting your xp between more things than non Force users. They'll be more specialized but you'll have more tricks up your sleeves.

To play a Jedi as seen in the movies and Clone Wars is going to require a fair amount of xp to buy up the Force powers they use in the show. Starting characters kinda have to settle for being less flashy. You'll build to it, but it takes time and investment.

I am thinking a better analogy to how a Force user starts and then progresses in FaD/EotE/AoR would be Luke in the OT and eventually beyond, rather than how, say, Anakin or Obi-Wan were in the PT and/or TCW. Force users are not the powerhouses of the PT and the Old Republic, though they may well get there eventually and after they have gained a considerable amount of XP to spend on Specializations, Talents, Skills and Force Powers.

You wanna be the very best? Like no one ever was....to Min-Max is my real test, to win the game is my caaaauuuuuusee.

Are you required to play a Jedi? Cause honestly, if it is about dominating in combat, you're looking in the wrong area, if you aren't restricted to F&D, what you really wanna do then is build an auto-fire monkey. Start with a droid, max out his agility, be a Bounty Hunter Gadgeteer, buy a Light (or heavy if your brawn is high enough) repeating blaster, take the Jury Rigged talent, put a bunch of ranks into Ranged Heavy and I guarantee you'll wipe the floor with your meatbag jedi friends. You won't be real good at talking, or....anything else really, but by god you'll be the scariest mutha-frakking combat droid in all the galaxy.

You wanna be the very best? Like no one ever was....to Min-Max is my real test, to win the game is my caaaauuuuuusee.

Are you required to play a Jedi? Cause honestly, if it is about dominating in combat, you're looking in the wrong area, if you aren't restricted to F&D, what you really wanna do then is build an auto-fire monkey. Start with a droid, max out his agility, be a Bounty Hunter Gadgeteer, buy a Light (or heavy if your brawn is high enough) repeating blaster, take the Jury Rigged talent, put a bunch of ranks into Ranged Heavy and I guarantee you'll wipe the floor with your meatbag jedi friends. You won't be real good at talking, or....anything else really, but by god you'll be the scariest mutha-frakking combat droid in all the galaxy.

This. Every time someone seems absurdly offended by some rule which appears to be totally unacceptable, I think about this sh*t. If you haven't fixed this in your game, then all the rest doesn't really matter.

[Preface] ... how are any specializations that don't have the Force Rating talent in their tree even remotely viable as starting specializations?

Because the specs without Force Rating talents are lightsaber form combat monsters.