Clones were bred for all roles.
In my opinion, limiting to those isnt fair. though I would say they wouldnt make a good diplomat as, as we all know, they were not bred for that.

I do think aswell that Cunning should be at 2 as they were bred to be tactically smart.

Hmm...how about Knowledge (Warfare)?

Looks like a good start.

I do think aswell that Cunning should be at 2 as they were bred to be tactically smart.

They were bred to follow orders, and often in TCW they ask "why are we retreating?" which speaks to their priorities. Cunning can be bumped up with XP...this is where the Rex's and Cody's come from. Same with Presence.

I would add 10 more XP (70 total)...it allows you to get to the "four 3s", which most other species can do, and I'm not sure the 2 non-combat ranks makes up for it. But if you added a rank of Knowledge (Warfare), then 60 might be enough.

I don't see a problem limiting the careers...if the game is roughly canonical, I'm sure the Kaminoans would have terminated any "defective" clone that showed an interest in diplomacy.

I think any AoR career makes sense, with Diplomat maybe being the most of a stretch. There were clones that served in officer roles also. You could make the argument that the officers and clone commanders buy into those specs later on, but that would prohibit a player that's focused on that style from picking up Signature Abilities.

I personally don't think they need to be anything more than a human variant, but since the intent is distinct stats, I think what you have is decent enough. Knowledge Warfare is a good suggestion.

I personally don't think they need to be anything more than a human variant...

Admittedly that was my first thought. But if I take a step back and think about their controlled development by the Kaminoans, they would have probably been most concerned about Brawn (carry the equipment), Agility (accurate shooting), and Willpower (follow any order), and leave the rest to whatever happens in the growth tank...aka, player decisions during chargen.

So I like that it's a variant.

I think any AoR career makes sense, with Diplomat maybe being the most of a stretch. There were clones that served in officer roles also. You could make the argument that the officers and clone commanders buy into those specs later on, but that would prohibit a player that's focused on that style from picking up Signature Abilities.

I personally don't think they need to be anything more than a human variant, but since the intent is distinct stats, I think what you have is decent enough. Knowledge Warfare is a good suggestion.

Don't forget that Quartermaster is under Diplomat

Make the Clone Trooper a Human variant with Brawn 3 and Presence 1. Make the background fluff say that their initial training raise their Agility and Willpower and they learn Athletics and Ranged Weapons (heavy). This leaves your average Clone Trooper with 50 XP for further training.

Isn't this also technically a Mandolorian sub-species build as well? Seeing as the Clones are basically a bunch of little Jango's

Thanks guys, this give me lots to ponder...

A human variant is the best way to incorporate clones in my opinion. Don't change the stats, players will do that. Clones were meant to be smarter than droids. The clones are also individuals, so let a player choose the stats as normal.

As for skills, clones get one rank of knowledge warfare and ranged heavy.

They are done.

Don't overthink things, keep it simple enough that a binary loadlifter can understand.

So, if I could add my 2 cents - I don't think that the Willpower 3 accurately reflects what the Clones were bred for. Remember, they were designed to follow orders blindly, but also to be subject to force powers to allow them to be better controlled (though initially brought up in the EU stuff, this is supported through the idea of Jedi Generals in the Clones Wars assisting the clones with Battle Meditation). Due to this, it would probably be more accurate to give the Clones ranks in Discipline (which would be used to allow a trooper pinned by heavy weapons fire to attack normally per the example) and Cool (which is used when trying to resist Charm or Negotiation to stop a Clone from carrying out his order) specifically as opposed to giving them high a Willpower to begin with. Also, Clones weren't ignorant or simple, so a 1 Intellect might be a little low - especially with how knowledgeable it portrayed them (knowing information about species, field training other clones as needed, knowledge of planets and areas in both the Outer Rim and Core Worlds - that's Knowledge Xenology, Outer Rim, Core Worlds and Education right there).

With the introduction of the subspecies of Nikto, it might benefit the same application for Clones, with sub-types for Clone Commander, Clone Pilot, Clone Trooper, and Advanced Reconnaissance Clone. I think this tailors them a little better to the roles they are designed for. The idea of restricting careers and specializations I think fits better as a Campaign or Story effect than it does a "species" aspect. This means that if you had a Clone Pilot that was needed in the motorpool, you would of course be trained as a mechanic, but your genome would be inherently geared to the purpose of flying it not necessarily fixing it.

As a suggestion;

I'm not really a fan of the "rank 3 at chargen" rule, I'd never take a Corellian human over a normal human for example.

I'll disagree with Kyla over Willpower, it's central to fear control, and clones don't let their personal fears interfere with orders. Discipline only goes so far with Willpower 1.

I do, however, like the idea of special Talents depending on their focus. You could also throw Knowledge Specialization, Burly, etc as other options.

IMO, "special talents based on focus" is pretty much covered by Career and Specialization(s) rather than by species. At heart, a GAR clone is human.

IMO, "special talents based on focus" is pretty much covered by Career and Specialization(s) rather than by species. At heart, a GAR clone is human.

The idea behind the different clone "subtypes" comes as a direct result of needing a mechanic that shows flash training that went into their creation effectively creating "instincts" beyond their experience.

There are two underlying mechanics that can be used to represent this, the first is start them with more experience than most beginning characters - but that inherently creates the opportunity at character generation of buying stats higher than game balance allows, or you can "spend" that experience on applicable talents and skills.

This second approach is the most common one used by the established races (Duros, for instance, begins with a rank of Skilled Jockey representing their natural aptitude in piloting). This approach I think best captures the intention of the flash training. This allows for the most accurate portrayal of the inherent breeding the Kaminoans did to produce the best "genetically engineered" soldier, pilot, commander, etc, while not restricting story or player expectations.

Imagine a PC's whose backstory is that their parents - who couldn't conceive - found an small abandoned mobile cloning facility that had a a program for a clone and the raw materials for a single "son" and activated it, raising the child as their own. This child was then trained by his smuggler father to be a smuggler, but the flash programming of, say, the Pilot Clone, meant that the child already had the instinctual reactions of a pilot, and knew a few maneuvers without ever sitting in a cockpit. While the GAR clone is fundamentally human, it's also raised above in certain aspects.

Corellians when they were written up in Sons of Fortune had the same unique aspects added to them, losing the "two free ranks" and having expenditures more suited to the wild piloting nature of Corellians instead.

I'll disagree with Kyla over Willpower, it's central to fear control, and clones don't let their personal fears interfere with orders. Discipline only goes so far with Willpower 1.

*pffbltltlttltltltttt* Poo on you.

Seriously though, agree to disagree, but looking over the stat line, having 3 stats at 3 seems too much to me, and generally has no analogue in a written species so far. I tend to get very nervous about setting precedents like that. Generally, every species published so far (save a couple of exceptions) have 12 points spread amongst the 6 characteristics, a format which I kept above, and I really feel that 2 Intellect fits Clones better than a 1 to reflect Astrogation, the Knowledge they portray them having, and the presence of Clone technicians and medics.

I would totally buy a 3 Brawn, 3 Agility, 2 Intellect, 1 Cunning, 2 Willpower, 1 Presence statline, though.

Seriously though, agree to disagree, but looking over the stat line, having 3 stats at 3 seems too much to me, and generally has no analogue in a written species so far.

There's no analogue because other species don't come out of a bottle, and genetic variation is allowed. Any clone that wasn't capable of handling the rigours of what they were bred for would be terminated...or be relegated to janitorial duties like "bad batcher" 99...

Although it might be a fun story to have a bunch of bad batchers escape from Kamino...

Intellect 2, Willpower 2 might fit better. Thanks Kyla!

Although it might be a fun story to have a bunch of bad batchers escape from Kamino...

Run it like a "Time Bandits" style adventure as they make off with a copy of the Clone Flash Training program that includes details on the Inhibitor Chip installed for Order 66 (from the Order 66 Quadrology in the Clone Wars cartoon). The PC's have to bumble their way through the Galaxy while being hunted by Jedi, Clone Troopers (who think the bad batchers are insane and rogue) and Separatist forces (who at Darth Tyranus' command want the truth of the chips contained and hidden from the Jedi).

Kyla, i would love to read your posts, but the combination of your font choice and colour on the grey backgrpund makes it a tough read.

I don't think Jango had any 1's so I wouldn't give the clones any.

The idea is that you are a copy of an already developed character, so you should have many char-gen choices already made for you. I would start with Human and then spend their starting XP on stats. Their combat training comes in through their career. So something like:

Brawn: 3 Agility 3 Intellect: 2 Cunning: 2 Willpower: 3 Presence: 2

Free rank in Resilience or Athletics

Starting XP: 20

Wound and Strain, same as Human.

I don't think Jango had any 1's so I wouldn't give the clones any.

While they were clones of Jango the Kaminoans used him as a "template" - by definition meaning that adjustments were made to it that resulted in a deviation from the base to both "trim out" unnecessary things (such as reducing his individuality to make him more obedient - which represents a reduction in Presence from 2 to 1) and heighten desired traits on a genetic level (such as increased agility and durability represented by 3's in Brawn and Agility).

The idea is that you are a copy of an already developed character, so you should have many char-gen choices already made for you. I would start with Human and then spend their starting XP on stats. Their combat training comes in through their career.

Kyla, i would love to read your posts, but the combination of your font choice and colour on the grey backgrpund makes it a tough read.

I'm sorry to hear that, I like it, personally (obviously!) - I have migraines from time to time and the lack of massive contrast in this font/color match helps with my light sensitivity when it trips. This is really important when I have to proof read a long post I make.

Kyla, i would love to read your posts, but the combination of your font choice and colour on the grey backgrpund makes it a tough read.

I'm sorry to hear that, I like it, personally (obviously!) - I have migraines from time to time and the lack of massive contrast in this font/color match helps with my light sensitivity when it trips. This is really important when I have to proof read a long post I make.

You may consider switching to the lighter background. The black text on it doesn't scream the same way the light text on dark grey does.

(also the pink is almost illegible on the lighter background).

That's the narrative reason, the functional reason is that Experience at character generation allows a player to go from a starting point and create a "space" in their character's head that they enjoy telling a narrative from. If the experience is "pre-spent" for them, then it will be very difficult for a player to put personal style into it or tailor it to fit into a group concept (at least in my opinion).

See, I believe that this is more of a feature than a bug for clone characters. They all start from the same place, and it is experience that starts to differentiate them. For me this fit right in with the narrative.