Interesting stuff Blue, thanks. I should clarify I don't dislike the new canon I just feel there needs to be a justifiable reason why the A wings aren't in wide use pre RotJ.

Maybe they were. There just weren't any at Yavin.

When it comes to the old canon, you need to unlearn what you have learned. It's all starting from scratch again.

That would be cool, but I hope they don't steal any thunder from the Rogue One movie.

It's set after Yavin, but in Heir to the Jedi, Luke encounters some pirates flying a mix of fighters, including cloakshape fighters and B Wings. If pirates were using them, I can only assume the B Wing had been in service for some time by then.

I'd put that one down to lazy research.

Even I'll admit that my assertion that they were R-22s Spearheads, way back when, was wrong.

I do love them being KSE though. They've got similar lines to a Firespray, really.

KSE made the Delta-7.

It's set after Yavin, but in Heir to the Jedi, Luke encounters some pirates flying a mix of fighters, including cloakshape fighters and B Wings. If pirates were using them, I can only assume the B Wing had been in service for some time by then.

I'd put that one down to lazy research

Doesn't matter though. It got a pass from the story group, and it's now canon.

Could have been an oversight. What I'm getting at though is that it's unlikely that pirate B-wing use is going to be developed.

I agree, but when we get the new backstory for the development of the B Wing, I think it will have been created some time before the battle of Yavin.

Interesting stuff Blue, thanks. I should clarify I don't dislike the new canon I just feel there needs to be a justifiable reason why the A wings aren't in wide use pre RotJ.

The reason now is that they are in use before RotJ.

I'd love to know where they were during the Battle of Yavin. Like: if the A-Wings were off on another mission, that's a story I'd love to learn.

The canon explanation is that there were multiple rebel fleets, not just one.

Interesting stuff Blue, thanks. I should clarify I don't dislike the new canon I just feel there needs to be a justifiable reason why the A wings aren't in wide use pre RotJ.

The reason now is that they are in use before RotJ.

I'd love to know where they were during the Battle of Yavin. Like: if the A-Wings were off on another mission, that's a story I'd love to learn.

You're assuming the entire Rebel Alliance is packed into one tiny temple.

They had X-wings and Y-wings at Yavin because those were the fighters stationed at the Yavin IV base, where High Command is. A galactic scale rebellion's not going to fit in one temple.

If you assume Yavin IV is all they've got, then you assume that they have a grand total of four squadrons of starfighters in the entire rebellion. Two if you go by film alone.

A group that small wouldn't warrant any Imperial attention. Maybe one Star Destroyer, but certainly not their flagship battlestation.

You're assuming the entire Rebel Alliance is packed into one tiny temple.

They had X-wings and Y-wings at Yavin because those were the fighters stationed at the Yavin IV base, where High Command is. A galactic scale rebellion's not going to fit in one temple.

If you assume Yavin IV is all they've got, then you assume that they have a grand total of four squadrons of starfighters in the entire rebellion. Two if you go by film alone.

A group that small wouldn't warrant any Imperial attention. Maybe one Star Destroyer, but certainly not their flagship battlestation.

Oh sure! I mean: it's possible that Akbar- knowing that Leia would be able to lure the Death Star to Yavin- sent away a group of A-Wings and B-Wings and the smaller capital ships. That way the Alliance would still have military assets left over even if Yavin was destroyed.

I can just picture the gleem in Akbar's eyes as he realizes Leia was successful at getting the Death Star where he wanted it to be. I can almost hear him grin and mutter "it's a trap."

Pfft, you're all missing the obvious answer! Why weren't Awings in use during the Battle of Yavin? They can't carry proton torpedoes! When you can only shoot a torpedo assuming my range 2-3 in a small vent a proton rocket that can only hit range 1 won't do the job, it's be like bringing a hammer to take out a screw.

Again just because there weren't any A-Wings and B-Wings at that one base doesn't mean the rebellion didn't have them elsewhere. That would be like claiming the rebellion didn't have any MC80s, A-Wings, and B-Wings during ESB because they weren't part of the fleet we saw at the end of the film.

Interesting stuff Blue, thanks. I should clarify I don't dislike the new canon I just feel there needs to be a justifiable reason why the A wings aren't in wide use pre RotJ.

Maybe they were. There just weren't any at Yavin.

When it comes to the old canon, you need to unlearn what you have learned. It's all starting from scratch again.

Also if it bothers you that A-wings (and B-wings) are not in wide use in ANH and TESB then think about Leia's rebels as a separate cell that used different ships than the ones in Rebels and that the big fleet we see in ROTJ is where all the rebels have finally come together, so all the sudden we see huge Mon Cal ships and new fighters, even though these had been part of the alliance for some time.

This makes a lot of sense actually, although I believe the Mon Calamari hadn't joined the alliance by the time of the battle of Yavin. I'm hoping that eventually in rebels the ghost crew will have something to do with the original theft of the Death Star plans.

That would be cool, but I hope they don't steal any thunder from the Rogue One movie.

Actually in Legend Mon Calamari was officially neutral until 9 months after Yavin but even when they were neutral they slipped the Alliance some ships and crews and other Mon Cal ships which had escaped the initial Imperial invasion had joined the Alliance fleet

At the very least, Ackbar was present and participating in the rebellion at Yavin, perhaps during but certainly immediately after the battle. Take this scene from the Princess Leia comic for example:

This conversation takes place during the evacuation of Yavin after the battle.

The legends timeline is really really complicated if we can both be right. My head hurts now!

At least X-wing PC had the B-wing after Yavin. Rebels will mess that up though I guess.

It's set after Yavin, but in Heir to the Jedi, Luke encounters some pirates flying a mix of fighters, including cloakshape fighters and B Wings. If pirates were using them, I can only assume the B Wing had been in service for some time by then.

Ackbar was rescued by a rebel Y wing squadron just before the construction of the first Death Star. It was supposed to be an assassination attempt on Governor Tarkin but he got away. He helped the rebels and commanded their forces at the battle of Turkana before returning home around the time of the battle. He returned to attack the imperial fleet shortly after the battle to slow them down which gave time for the bulk of the rebel forces on Yavin to escape.

In my current head canon (which will continue to evolve as we hear more about rogue one and see more rebels) the Ghost crew will steal the plans from some secret facility and rogue one will cover the extraction and subsequent space battle which facilitates getting the plans away.

My radio show recordings of ANH and ESB are on cassette and I no longer have a player, I'm trying to remember if they name the planet where the Tantive IV picks up the plans prior to getting caught over Tatooine.

and.. maybe Darth Vader blows em all up eventually on Rebels and it takes a few years to build more.

I'm trying to remember if they name the planet where the Tantive IV picks up the plans prior to getting caught over Tatooine.

Toprawa?

Yavin was the 'main rebel base', and it is part of Legends that the Rebels had taken several heavy losses before that. Most of their fighters were lost with the Fortressa and Operation Skyhook. There still may have been fighter squadrons around the galaxy but I doubt they were full strength and they mostly operated on their own. Only Leia's group and maybe a few others had more than a handful of ships to launch major raids. Also the Empire was probably very focused on wiping out any rebel forces, and it appears that by the time ANH happens the rebel numbers were dwindling rapidly.

I agree, but when we get the new backstory for the development of the B Wing, I think it will have been created some time before the battle of Yavin.

So much for them being a replacement for the Y-wing.

Consider that the Y was decades old in the 5 years before Yavin. Maybe a cell with some fighter expertise thought that a Rebellion couldn't endure on 20 year old cast-off ships for every role. So they started work on a heavy mom be to carry out hyperspace dependent raids on big targets that Ys and Xs didn't have the endurance to carry out. They're a rebellion, though, they're on the run, with crummy resources, so it takes a while to get a working prototype, and it takes a little longer to work out the kinks and make it easier to produce. Maybe only when a big shipbuilding power joined the Rebellion did the B get off the ground in meaningful numbers.

So much for them being a replacement for the Y-wing.

The B-wing never truly replaced the Y-wing. It was meant to, but considering the Y-wing was such a rugged and reliable starfighter that it's second only to the Z-95 in longevity you're not going to remove Y-wings overnight.

Even if the B-wings come in in 4 BBY (if the first prototype is then it's unlikely), the Y-wing's already been in service since the Clone Wars.

Most of their fighters were lost with the Fortressa

Ah, the Fortressa. One of the worst conceived and daft pieces of Legends. I cringed reading that sequence.

Pfft, you're all missing the obvious answer! Why weren't Awings in use during the Battle of Yavin? They can't carry proton torpedoes! When you can only shoot a torpedo assuming my range 2-3 in a small vent a proton rocket that can only hit range 1 won't do the job, it's be like bringing a hammer to take out a screw.

I'm not sure if you're serious with this post, but that all depends on which game mechanics you consider canon. in the X-Wing miniatures game, and the first X-Wing computer game, starfighters could only carry set warhead types. In TIE Fighter and subsequent computer games, you could load any type of ordnance into any starfighter (although swapping concussion missiles for space bombs meant you didn't carry very many )

Interesting stuff Blue, thanks. I should clarify I don't dislike the new canon I just feel there needs to be a justifiable reason why the A wings aren't in wide use pre RotJ.

If you haven't read any of the new "Journey to The Force Awakens" novels you might want to. Disney has done their homework are are doing alot that falls during the original trilogy timeline that foreshadows TFA. They are introducing characters that could have been there off screen that will be a major players in the new movie. As for that they may use these ships in future books that give them a reason for being there.

Also if you noticed the A-Wing in the Rebels episode were in the paint scheme of the prototype version. Those could be the first batch and with most shipyards during that period being controlled by the Empire the production of new ships would be very low. Also via the new novels we see that the Rebels even as of the battle of Endor were not a huge group, but were made up of small group through out the galaxy. The fleet that took down the second Death Star was made up of the 3 largest of those groups. So in theory the group that we see in the animated series could have been on the far side of the galaxy and not part of the famous X-Wing and Y-Wing group we know from the first 2 movies. They just happened to join in the assault in the RotJ.

Also if you noticed the A-Wing in the Rebels episode were in the paint scheme of the prototype version.

Actually, the colors are inverted - blue where the classic McQuarrie picture was white and vice versa.

Also if you noticed the A-Wing in the Rebels episode were in the paint scheme of the prototype version.

Actually, the colors are inverted - blue where the classic McQuarrie picture was white and vice versa.

Go back and actually watch the episode......

Around the :30 sec mark of the trailer, and again around the :50 sec mark.

There were two color schemes used in the episode....the classic McQuarrie was used as squad leader colors.

Fair enough - I was going by the preview pic of a single Phoenix Squadron ship.

Given all the debates on A-Wing sizes - and given that the Droids A-wings were exceptionally roomy (even the single-seat cockpit version could fit pilot, R2, and 3PO) - maybe the A-wings in this game, are "Droids-pattern" rather than ROTJ pattern.

Maybe despite what we're told, Yavin wasn't a big base. Remember, Leia already lied once about the location of the rebel base, and now some strangers rescue her from a space station the size of a moon and she's going to lead them into her most secret base? Remember, she already suspects that the Empire allowed them to escape. So she's motivated to make another sacrifice like Tantooine. The reason why there's only two squadrons of fighters and no capital ships is because this is a tiny, meaningless, instillation.

Or development cycles take decades when you're on the run so A-wing prototypes were deployed literal years before being actually produced.