Just watched the siege of Lothal ep 1 of Rebels season 2. In it we see Phoenix squadron piloting what looks like either an R22s or A-Wings fighting ties as well as a certain Dark Lord of the Sith. My question is; with rebels being set several years before the Battle of Yavin are we seeing a retcon to the A-Wing's development timeline or are these R22s?

Personally I'm not familiar enough with either ship to say conclusively. What's the consensus among the fan base?

From the vitriol that spewed when it aired, yes it is a retcon. They are A-Wings.

Old canon had RZ-1 A-wings as a Rebel homebrew starfighter project under Jan Dodonna (hence Prototype Pilot), with A-wings coming in after Yavin. Thing is, pretty much every game defied that so the R-22 Spearhead was invented as a retcon.

New canon has the RZ-1 A-wing as a product of KSE (Kuat Systems Engineering, same manufacturer as the Delta-7), and it's the RZ-1 they're flying. Whether or not post-Yavin A-wings get upgraded to TIE interceptor level by the Rebels hasn't been defined yet.

Old canon had RZ-1 A-wings as a Rebel homebrew starfighter project under Jan Dodonna (hence Prototype Pilot), with A-wings coming in after Yavin. Thing is, pretty much every game defied that so the R-22 Spearhead was invented as a retcon.

New canon has the RZ-1 A-wing as a product of KSE (Kuat Systems Engineering, same manufacturer as the Delta-7), and it's the RZ-1 they're flying. Whether or not post-Yavin A-wings get upgraded to TIE interceptor level by the Rebels hasn't been defined yet.

Kinda sad they dropped the ball and didn't make pheonix squad R22s, never mind thanks for clearing this up!

R-22s were a retcon to start with. Rebels is also set to give the B-wing prototype a new origin.

If anything, I think making the A-wing a KSE starfighter is genius.

EDIT: A bit more digging revealed how the interceptor level A-wings make sense: the new canon has the A-wing as highly modifiable starfighter, much like the Z-95. The Rebel Alliance strips them down, removing most of their armor, which is what makes them so blindingly fast.

Funnily enough, with the same goal of saving weight, they often remove the missile launchers.

Interesting stuff Blue, thanks. I should clarify I don't dislike the new canon I just feel there needs to be a justifiable reason why the A wings aren't in wide use pre RotJ.

Old canon had RZ-1 A-wings as a Rebel homebrew starfighter project under Jan Dodonna (hence Prototype Pilot), with A-wings coming in after Yavin. Thing is, pretty much every game defied that so the R-22 Spearhead was invented as a retcon.

New canon has the RZ-1 A-wing as a product of KSE (Kuat Systems Engineering, same manufacturer as the Delta-7), and it's the RZ-1 they're flying. Whether or not post-Yavin A-wings get upgraded to TIE interceptor level by the Rebels hasn't been defined yet.

Well the only reason the R-22s were created was because WEG decided to ignore the fact that the Droids cartoon showed A-Wings despite being set before A New Hope and later many of the PC game designers felt free to ignore WEG stating that the A-Wings were post Yavin designs.

Another interesting thing is that in the Legends continuity the designer of the A-Wing worked for KSE and designed the Delta-7 and Eta-2 classes before going underground in the aftermath of the Empire rising and eventually joining the rebellion, So I wonder if they are keeping the same designer but shifting things so he designed the A-Wing before going undergroynd rather then afterwards.

Interesting stuff Blue, thanks. I should clarify I don't dislike the new canon I just feel there needs to be a justifiable reason why the A wings aren't in wide use pre RotJ.

The reason now is that they are in use before RotJ.

RZ-1s are A-wings.

R-22s are A-wings.

T-65s are X-wings.

T-70s are X-wings.

If any of this bothers you just use head-canon.

Also if it bothers you that A-wings (and B-wings) are not in wide use in ANH and TESB then think about Leia's rebels as a separate cell that used different ships than the ones in Rebels and that the big fleet we see in ROTJ is where all the rebels have finally come together, so all the sudden we see huge Mon Cal ships and new fighters, even though these had been part of the alliance for some time.

Even I'll admit that my assertion that they were R-22s Spearheads, way back when, was wrong.

I do love them being KSE though. They've got similar lines to a Firespray, really.

Also if it bothers you that A-wings (and B-wings) are not in wide use in ANH and TESB then think about Leia's rebels as a separate cell that used different ships than the ones in Rebels and that the big fleet we see in ROTJ is where all the rebels have finally come together, so all the sudden we see huge Mon Cal ships and new fighters, even though these had been part of the alliance for some time.

This makes a lot of sense actually, although I believe the Mon Calamari hadn't joined the alliance by the time of the battle of Yavin. I'm hoping that eventually in rebels the ghost crew will have something to do with the original theft of the Death Star plans.

Maybe the Ghost can be part of the space battle that was occurring while the plans were being stolen. Even better if Rogue One sows a different part of that battle.

As for the A-Wings and B-Wings not being seen in ANH maybe that particular base didn't have any or they were there just among the fighters we never saw. I could be wrong but I don't think we actually see 30 different rebel fighters at the battle after all, or 29 if you count the falcon as one of the 30 rebel ships reported to Vader which seems iffy to me.

Also if it bothers you that A-wings (and B-wings) are not in wide use in ANH and TESB then think about Leia's rebels as a separate cell that used different ships than the ones in Rebels and that the big fleet we see in ROTJ is where all the rebels have finally come together, so all the sudden we see huge Mon Cal ships and new fighters, even though these had been part of the alliance for some time.

This makes a lot of sense actually, although I believe the Mon Calamari hadn't joined the alliance by the time of the battle of Yavin. I'm hoping that eventually in rebels the ghost crew will have something to do with the original theft of the Death Star plans.

Yavin iirc was Rebel HighCom, not FleetCom, so it sort of works in the sense that they wouldn't have the specialised fighters, but rather jack-of-all-trades X/Y-Wings.

Any existing a-wings and b-wings might have been lost in he battle to get the DS plans before ANH even opens. Near complete or complete losses of starfighter forces is a pattern for early rebel battles, such as Fortressa vs DS, the battle of Yavin itself, and the loss of Renagade flight immediately before the battle of Hoth. Vader wasting almost all of Pheonix squadron holds to this pattern.

Ah never been sure of this but it did always seem small to be THE rebel base rather than A rebel base. IIRC the Death Star plans are stolen during the Rebellions first pitched space battle victory. I'm not sure if it's still (or ever was) canon but in the ANH radio drama there is a conversation between Leia and Bail Organa about the battle before Leia heads off under the guise of a mission of mercy to receive the plans in a transmission. They get intercepted by the Devastator which they successfully flee from but it catches them up above Tatooine which is the point the film picks the story up.

Yavin iirc was Rebel HighCom, not FleetCom, so it sort of works in the sense that they wouldn't have the specialised fighters, but rather jack-of-all-trades X/Y-Wings.

I assume FleetCom would have been on the Independence (or Home One) with the good Admiral Ackbar...because the Mon Cal fleet was part of the Alliance well before ANH.

Actually in Legend Mon Calamari was officially neutral until 9 months after Yavin but even when they were neutral they slipped the Alliance some ships and crews and other Mon Cal ships which had escaped the initial Imperial invasion had joined the Alliance fleet

Yavin iirc was Rebel HighCom, not FleetCom, so it sort of works in the sense that they wouldn't have the specialised fighters, but rather jack-of-all-trades X/Y-Wings.

I assume FleetCom would have been on the Independence (or Home One) with the good Admiral Ackbar...because the Mon Cal fleet was part of the Alliance well before ANH.

I'm pretty sure that although there were some strengthening ties between the Mon Calamari and the rebellion before the battle of Yavin they didn't officially join until afterwards, their first fleet action for the rebellion was to distract the imperial fleet on their way to Yavin which allowed the rebels time to evacuate.

I seem to recall a lot of Mon Cal ships present well before Yavin in the original X-wing game. Like Ackbar's ship was the main rebel base for launching hit and run strikes. But I guess if Legends says they weren't there, then I guess it was some look alikes.

IIRC X-wing and Tie fighter ignored most canon timelines when including ships. Although apparently the battle of Turkhana featured a few mon cal star cruisers (these were the combat refitted commercial craft, the purpose built military craft were built later)

on loan to the rebellion commanded by Akbar who owed the alliance a bit of a favour so in a way we're both right.

The legends timeline is really really complicated if we can both be right. My head hurts now!

At least X-wing PC had the B-wing after Yavin. Rebels will mess that up though I guess.

Also if it bothers you that A-wings (and B-wings) are not in wide use in ANH and TESB then think about Leia's rebels as a separate cell that used different ships than the ones in Rebels and that the big fleet we see in ROTJ is where all the rebels have finally come together, so all the sudden we see huge Mon Cal ships and new fighters, even though these had been part of the alliance for some time.

That's exactly what i was thinking. The galaxy far far away is big, and the Rebels are not an organized unified front. They scramble whatever they get working at a certain time and place, especially when on the defensive. So Yavin had a complement of X-Wings and Y-Wings at the time of the attack of DS1, so they sent them. If they had had anything else they would probably have sent it in too...

R-22s were a retcon to start with. Rebels is also set to give the B-wing prototype a new origin.

If anything, I think making the A-wing a KSE starfighter is genius.

EDIT: A bit more digging revealed how the interceptor level A-wings make sense: the new canon has the A-wing as highly modifiable starfighter, much like the Z-95. The Rebel Alliance strips them down, removing most of their armor, which is what makes them so blindingly fast.

Funnily enough, with the same goal of saving weight, they often remove the missile launchers.

You mean the Chardaan refit?