Utter boredom as it devolves into rolling dice to decide the winner.

Exactly this, and I believe it's very telling about what such a list offers to the game. It's actually more boring than watching two Fat Han lists face each other, so I suppose that's some sort of accomplishment.

Have you ever watched a TIE Swarm vs TIE Swarm. That is just as, if not more, a dice dependent matchup. At least with the Y-wings, things are likely to be removed in a timely fashion. And maneuvering does play a big part in that.

Swarm movement is way more important than y-wing movement when spamming tlt, aslong as your not in range one your getting a shot.

Given both sides are likely to be zipping around at speed three carparks are unlikely as is never getting a shot.

So as other's have said it'll probably come down to who gets priority.

No. The ability to concentrate fire is just as important as the Swarm matchup. The only reason maneuvering may be a bit more important in the Swarm matchup is that there is a lot more ships on the board, making things a bit more difficult.

A missed attack can be a loss in the TLT matchup. Not trading Fighters in the Swarm matchup can also lead to a loss.

TLT Y-wings are asexual

Only the BTL-A4 ones are neutered. Those without the title go both ways.

No. The ability to concentrate fire is just as important as the Swarm matchup. The only reason maneuvering may be a bit more important in the Swarm matchup is that there is a lot more ships on the board, making things a bit more difficult.

A missed attack can be a loss in the TLT matchup. Not trading Fighters in the Swarm matchup can also lead to a loss.

more ships + arcs + action dependency = more manuevering involved in order to secure success

of course, that goes for both TLTs (doughnut hole) and Swarms. Not sure how anyone could think either are easy to play, unless they haven't played either

Utter boredom as it devolves into rolling dice to decide the winner.

Exactly this, and I believe it's very telling about what such a list offers to the game. It's actually more boring than watching two Fat Han lists face each other, so I suppose that's some sort of accomplishment.

Have you ever watched a TIE Swarm vs TIE Swarm. That is just as, if not more, a dice dependent matchup. At least with the Y-wings, things are likely to be removed in a timely fashion. And maneuvering does play a big part in that.

TIE swarms take significantly more skill to maneuver (more ships + keeping within range 1 of Howlrunner, which is indisputably a higher skill cap) and you actually have to worry about, you know, firing arcs. There's obviously more room for the better player to shine, which is the bottom line for me at least. There's no way it's more dice dependent, but maybe not so different in this respect. I'll agree with you about the time factor, which might be the only reason I'd consider watching TLT vs TLT over a TIE swarm match.

4xTLT is extremely dice independent. Each shot is 3 dice vs 1 die, and so it takes a lot of bad luck to nor do a damage per shot, particularly when you've got a back pocket Focus to mod a bad roll. It's all maneuvering, making sure you can get all 4 turrets on a target each turn.

4xTLT is extremely dice independent. Each shot is 3 dice vs 1 die, and so it takes a lot of bad luck to nor do a damage per shot, particularly when you've got a back pocket Focus to mod a bad roll. It's all maneuvering, making sure you can get all 4 turrets on a target each turn.

oh don't you believe it

play in my shoes and you'll have rounds where you can't land 50% of your shots on one agility to save your goddamn life

obstructions also help; clever use thereof can swing the game easily

Okay, extremely dice independent compared to other types of matchips.

Okay, extremely relatively dice independent compared to other types of matchips.

this is acceptable

See, this is why I can see BTL-A4 TLTs being a thing. Maybe run two with and two without, because those extra shots could really help in a mirror match.

So with all the chatter about TLT lists, what will happen when two of them meet up? If they are a "thing" it will eventually happen in tournies, etc.

Thoughts!

Ok I got this...

One of them will win, and the other will lose

Usually the more experienced player employing better tactics will win

Sometimes hot or cold dice will decide the outcome...

Wait - that pretty much describes every other game of X-Wing!

CRUSH!

This match really doesn't sound all that mindless to me. It's turrets vs turrets, sure, but with the range 1 weakness there is plenty of room for outmaneuvering and making that range 1 primary attack count vs 1 agility targets. I think it would initially be decided by who can get more shots on a single target during the initial approach, with mid-game swing potential if/when someone makes it into that range 1 flanking attack.

Not a match I would like to play often but certainly better than dueling primary turrets.

No. The ability to concentrate fire is just as important as the Swarm matchup. The only reason maneuvering may be a bit more important in the Swarm matchup is that there is a lot more ships on the board, making things a bit more difficult.

A missed attack can be a loss in the TLT matchup. Not trading Fighters in the Swarm matchup can also lead to a loss.

Exactly, so it's still a very tactical game.

What do you want to hear? Why would this be more boring than other matchups? Just because it's more attacks per phase? It still comes out to good maneuvering and dice luck. BOTH as much as in any other matchup.

It's always a little bland when a mirror match ensues, i have played enough Brobots vs Brobots, Phantom vs Phantom and swarm vs swarm to know. But to say TLT vs TLT is more bland is just purely subjective. Maybe it is to you. Maybe not to someone else.

Obviously the most bland would be mirror match with Senators shuttle, resistance wingmate and escape pod. Throw in the rebel transport for some real excitement!

initially i figured whoever had initiative would win, but then Simultaneous attack rule occurred to me as a thing that exists. 4 TLT Y-Wings, if they all pour their fire into one of the other Y-Wings, would kill it in one turn if every attack hit(and let's be honest, it will, 3 reds versus 1 green? Yeah.). But then it'd attack, and then all 4 Y-Wings would do the exact same thing. Then it would be 3v3.

The point is that whichever side misses a TLT shot first is the side that losses.

There are some very valid points made above with; good piloting, asteroids, range 1 doughnut holes, variation in dice rolls etc (not to mention action loss by deliberate bumping) all potentially playing their part, however there is another way...

For this hypothetical scenario i will assume the 2 players are both of equal skill and both have equal luck (i.e. both get to focus all their shots onto one enemy ship each round and, against agility 1 Y-wings, will therefore always hit):

Player A opts for 4x PS2 TLT Y-Wings while player B take 2x PS4 TLT Y-Wings and 2x PS2 TLT Y-Wings. Not that it matters with simultaneous fire but lets assume player A has initiative and shoots first. For the sake of simplicity all hits are standard hits not critical hits (as i'm too lazy to figure out the potential outcomes from them). Here's what would happen;

combat round 1

player B shoots first with his 2x PS4 Y's (for 4x hits) onto one of player A's Y's.

player A shoots all of his PS2 Y's onto one of player B's PS4 Y's (for 8 hits) and kills it

player B's remaining 2x PS2 Y's shoot into player A's damaged Y (for another 4 hits, totalling 8 hits) and kills it

combat round 2

player B shoots his remaining PS4 Y into a remaining player A Y (for 2 hits)

player A shoots all 3 of his remaining PS2 Y's into player B's remaining PS4 Y (for 6 hits)

player B shoots his remaining 2 PS2 Y's into the damaged Y of player A (for 4 more hits totalling 6 hits)

combat round 3

player B shoots his PS4 Y into the damaged Y of player A (for 2 more hits totalling 8 hits) and kills it

player A shoots one of his 2 remaining Y's into player B's PS4 Y (for 2 more hits totalling 8 hits) and kills it

player A's remaining Y shoots into one of player B's remaining (PS2) Y's (for 2 hits)

player B shoots both his remaining (PS2) Y's into one of player A's Y's (for 4 hits)

combat round 4

player A shoots both his remaining Y's into one of player B's remaining (PS2) Y's (for 4 hits totalling 6 hits)

player B shoots both his remaining Y's into player A's damaged Y (for 4 more hits totalling 8 hits) and kills it

combat round 5

player A shoots his remaining Y into player B's damaged Y (for 2 more hits totalling 8 hits) and kills it

player B shoots his remaining Y into player A's remaining Y (for 2 hits)

player B shoots his dying Y into player A's remaining Y (simultaneous fire rule) (for 2 more hits totalling 4 hits)

combat round 6

player A shoots player B's remaining Y (for 2 hits)

player B shoots player A's remaining Y (for 2 more hits totalling 6 hits)

combat round 7

player A shoots player B's remaining Y (for 2 more hits totalling 4 hits)

player B shoots player B's remaining Y (for 2 more hits totalling 8 hits) killing it. player B wins....

initially i figured whoever had initiative would win, but then Simultaneous attack rule occurred to me as a thing that exists. 4 TLT Y-Wings, if they all pour their fire into one of the other Y-Wings, would kill it in one turn if every attack hit(and let's be honest, it will, 3 reds versus 1 green? Yeah.). But then it'd attack, and then all 4 Y-Wings would do the exact same thing. Then it would be 3v3.

The point is that whichever side misses a TLT shot first is the side that losses.

So every TLT will be able to shoot at the sane target every time? Nobody ever gets to range 1 or is out of range? How do you pkay X-Wing, this sounds like a different game.

Also even in thag highly unlikely situation, you have at the very least 4 UNMODIFIED atacks per side. And yet you assume that every attack hits and nobody ever makes his one evade? I think you really overestimate the odds of one squad inflicting 8 damage with 8 shots, of which we have at best 4 focused ones and 4 unmodified, and on each shot 1 evade die with the posdibility to focus defensively if you are the player without initiative. You know, blank reds happen, or only one hit that is evaded. Or 3 focus symbols and no token...

Edit: Double post. No idea why it did that... Sorry!

initially i figured whoever had initiative would win, but then Simultaneous attack rule occurred to me as a thing that exists. 4 TLT Y-Wings, if they all pour their fire into one of the other Y-Wings, would kill it in one turn if every attack hit(and let's be honest, it will, 3 reds versus 1 green? Yeah.). But then it'd attack, and then all 4 Y-Wings would do the exact same thing. Then it would be 3v3.

The point is that whichever side misses a TLT shot first is the side that losses.

That's like saying the first person to lose a checker will lose the game. There's LOTS of strategies that can be implored as has been posted already.

Of course if I'm playing checkers it's an autoloss for sure.

Utter boredom as it devolves into rolling dice to decide the winner.

Exactly this, and I believe it's very telling about what such a list offers to the game. It's actually more boring than watching two Fat Han lists face each other, so I suppose that's some sort of accomplishment.

Have you ever watched a TIE Swarm vs TIE Swarm. That is just as, if not more, a dice dependent matchup. At least with the Y-wings, things are likely to be removed in a timely fashion. And maneuvering does play a big part in that.

Or BBBBZ versus BBBBZ.

The one with BTL-A4 wins.

I disagree with this. While the BTL upgrade gives an awesome attack, its only front arc. Being able to swing the TLTs a full 360° beats BTL. A lot depends on the player's ability but I think the advantage lies with an unrestricted turret. In the 7 games I played with the Ys and TLT I lost the 4 where I had some iteration of BTL. The 3 that I flew with free turrets, I won handily. The build that came closet to beating me was 4 Bs. The outcome may have been different had he not misjudged a move of mine which left 3 of his Bs out of arc/range for 2 turns.

The poor dial, few green maneuvers, and limited upgrades available makes the Y+TLT a gun barge. The donut hole also causes a problem with movement. Anything that breaks the formation or causes the formation to vary from the 2x2 box leaves at least 1 ship exposed. Pick on tail end Charlie and receive return fire from 1 ship.

Fighting a mirror match may be tedious it still requires your attention. It makes for an interesting if prolonged game.

A lot of the opening rounds will depend on maneuvering and formation tactics. Playing the range 1, asteroids, and keeping tighter formations than the enemy. The first couple rounds of shooting are most important for this mirror match. Really is not much different from lots of other matchups.

4 Rec Spec TLT rebel HWK's or 4 Scunthorpe HWK with TLT,Outlaw Tech and Inertial Danpeners might be a nice break. Not as tanky but a different approach.

4 Rec Spec TLT rebel HWK's or 4 Scunthorpe HWK with TLT,Outlaw Tech and Inertial Danpeners might be a nice break. Not as tanky but a different approach.

The Rebel ones have a shot,but scum just being PS 1 hurts them badly, especially in a TLT vs. TLT match.

To answer the thread's title. I'd say in 9 months a little 4 TLT list...