Have you noticed a sudden increase in local Thug activity? Or do you perhaps fear that, in these uncertain times, Gold is the only safe store of value? Maybe you just want to see some pretty diagrams? Good news; you've come to the right post.

When a quad-TLT list flies in formation, it has to make a tradeoff between maximizing focus fire and minimizing blind spots. The decision isn't all-or-nothing; it varies with the distance between the ships in formation, and can be adjusted on the fly, but the most important thing to remember if you panic when facing one is that quad-TLT cannot do both well.

Let's take a look at two points on this axis, a relatively tight formation (Fig. A), and a loose formation with no blind spots* (Fig. B).

Click images to enlarge

Fig. A "Tight Formation"

Fig. B "Loose Formation"

When checking for blind spots (the black portion marked "0"), keep in mind that the entire ship doesn't need to fit in the blind spot; range measurement for turrets is between nearest points, so even the tiniest sliver of plastic can get you in the black, so to speak. Notice in Fig. A how small, relatively, the death zone (4-turret coverage, in orange) is. Tightening up the formation further can expand the death zone, but comes at the cost of enlarging the blind spot and making maneuvering somewhat trickier. Notice just how large the combined 1- and 2-turret coverage area is. Even when focus-fire coverage is maximized, it's not terribly difficult to find a spot where you aren't taking more than 2 TLT shots, meaning that the list's jousting value gets halved (or quartered).

As a formation transitions from something like Fig. A to something like Fig. B, the blind spot and death zone shrink, becoming more area for 1-, 2-, and 3-turret coverage, until they're practically gone. Fig. B shows minimized blind spots; everywhere within R3 is getting shot by somebody. This is actually pretty great for the TLT list's opponent because the 1-2 TLT coverage area is tremendously generous.

Live, on the table, formations aren't going to stay perfect, even before banks, turns, and bumps. Just remember that, no matter how they're positioned, there's no way to keep range with all 4 TLTs unless the opponent lets it happen.

^{* The four black wedges in Fig. B are technically blind spots, but you can get rid of them by tightening up the formation a bit; this was an easy-to-setup-in-Vassal 6-base approximation.}

Other Formation Types

Click images to enlarge

Fig. C "Firing Line" with 5-Straight Template

The Y-Wings are arranged just far enough apart to maintain formation through banks. A combined approach adding up to a 5 Straight (taking into account how far the Y-Wings will move) will get you from just outside of R3 into the blind spot. An approach from the side is less risky unless you can reposition.

Fig. D "Diamond Formation"

The ships are touching, but the diamond pattern will let them bank in formation without bumping, similar to a pinwheel formation.

Fig. E "Crescent"

I like you so much. I've been putting off doing something like this, and now I don't have to. It gives a clear image of how to avoid the 4x TLT overlap area if you're flying against them. I wish I could "like" it more.

Because I'm being greedy, and you're clearly good at making nice figures, it would be interesting to see lines or crescents designed to maximize the 4xTLT coverage in a particular area.

I like you so much. I've been putting off doing something like this, and now I don't have to. It gives a clear image of how to avoid the 4x TLT overlap area if you're flying against them. I wish I could "like" it more.

Because I'm being greedy, and you're clearly good at making nice figures, it would be interesting to see lines or crescents designed to maximize the 4xTLT coverage in a particular area.

I second your praise!

Great analysis, this is the kind of 'math wing ' I want to see. These diagrams will help a lot of folks to understand what's going on with all those overlapping ranges.

Awesome work, thanks a lot randolph! So now we know not only how to fly them to maxjmum effect but also how to approach them if we fly against them. Come diagonally, fringing R3 and you get shot by 1 only!

What i woukd love to see is the overlapping fire arcs for a diamond shaped formation. Well i guess similar to 1 but a little rotated. But i still would like it visualized.

Edit: Also, as everybody says that TLT might be the new meta, i would suggest to put this into the "useful threads" compil asap!

Solid work! Those two pictures are REALLY informative.

It's hard to stay mad at TLTs when there's so much beauty in the world!

Amazing post, thanks!

Great work! Only problem is I normally see TLTs run in a line of 4.

Great work! Only problem is I normally see TLTs run in a line of 4.

That's easy, come at it from the side and don't let him collapse the line onto you. And don't fly off the edge. And eat your vegetables.

Start your ships at an odd angle to the starting edge instead of straight or 45 degrees. It might throw them off by seeing something unusual like that.

Finally! A purpose for Venn diagrams.

Very interesting post.

Thanks

Glad you guys are finding these useful!

Because I'm being greedy, and you're clearly good at making nice figures, it would be interesting to see lines or crescents designed to maximize the 4xTLT coverage in a particular area.

What i woukd love to see is the overlapping fire arcs for a diamond shaped formation. Well i guess similar to 1 but a little rotated. But i still would like it visualized.

Great work! Only problem is I normally see TLTs run in a line of 4.

Added these diagrams to the original post!

The diagrams are lovely, but--if I'm thinking about this correctly, and that's far from certain at 10pm with a dose of industrial-strength cough syrup in my system--I'm not quite sure it's right. You're looking at the attacker as a point, not as a base.

Look at Figure B again for a moment. What happens if I'm a ship with a small base, straddling any pair of the interior zones marked as accessible to 3 turrets? I'm at Range 1 of two TLTs, meaning only two can fire at me.

The diagrams are lovely, but--if I'm thinking about this correctly, and that's far from certain at 10pm with a dose of industrial-strength cough syrup in my system--I'm not quite sure it's right. You're looking at the attacker as a point, not as a base.

Look at Figure B again for a moment. What happens if I'm a ship with a small base, straddling any pair of the interior zones marked as accessible to 3 turrets? I'm at Range 1 of two TLTs, meaning only two can fire at me.

The shaded areas are coverage, so your example is correct; a given zone's coverage applies to a ship iff the respective points on the ship closest to each TLT are all within that zone. (If you know of a better way to visually represent coverage, please let me know.)

The diagrams are lovely, but--if I'm thinking about this correctly, and that's far from certain at 10pm with a dose of industrial-strength cough syrup in my system--I'm not quite sure it's right. You're looking at the attacker as a point, not as a base.

Look at Figure B again for a moment. What happens if I'm a ship with a small base, straddling any pair of the interior zones marked as accessible to 3 turrets? I'm at Range 1 of two TLTs, meaning only two can fire at me.

The shaded areas are coverage, so your example is correct; a given zone's coverage applies to a ship iff the respective points on the ship closest to each TLT are all within that zone. (If you know of a better way to visually represent coverage, please let me know.)

No, I don't think I do. (Especially not right now, vis a vis cough medicine. I just wanted to point out that, as helpful as these diagrams are, the picture for TLT is actually a little worse than you've put it here.

Glad you guys are finding these useful!

Because I'm being greedy, and you're clearly good at making nice figures, it would be interesting to see lines or crescents designed to maximize the 4xTLT coverage in a particular area.

What i woukd love to see is the overlapping fire arcs for a diamond shaped formation. Well i guess similar to 1 but a little rotated. But i still would like it visualized.

Great work! Only problem is I normally see TLTs run in a line of 4.

Added these diagrams to the original post!

Yay, thanks again!

The diagrams are lovely, but--if I'm thinking about this correctly, and that's far from certain at 10pm with a dose of industrial-strength cough syrup in my system--I'm not quite sure it's right. You're looking at the attacker as a point, not as a base.

Look at Figure B again for a moment. What happens if I'm a ship with a small base, straddling any pair of the interior zones marked as accessible to 3 turrets? I'm at Range 1 of two TLTs, meaning only two can fire at me.

The shaded areas are coverage, so your example is correct; a given zone's coverage applies to a ship iff the respective points on the ship closest to each TLT are all within that zone. (If you know of a better way to visually represent coverage, please let me know.)

No, I don't think I do. (Especially not right now, vis a vis cough medicine. I just wanted to point out that, as helpful as these diagrams are, the picture for TLT is actually a little worse than you've put it here.

This is true, and it might be a saving grace for big boosting ships. They'll be in Range 1 of even more stuff (although will probably be blocked out of the middle of formations. A boosting Falcon might be able to negate 2 TLTs a turn just by being close and large based.

I love the yellow-for-death-zone, but I almost wish the triple-TLT areas were a little clearer too. It might not be full jousting value, but it's definitely somewhere you want to be careful of parking your X-wings and Interceptors anyway.

Still, it's striking just how much line formations gain instead of flying boxes. I'd understood it intellectually, but that really is rather dramatic!

My games involving 4x TLTs have been all about spacing and range control and this kind of subtle formation stuff can be the difference between a jousting list starting at range 3 only taking 2 TLTs on the entry and shooting back a lot more and getting focus-fired down hard.

People always talk about all four TLTs being able to shoot the same thing but it just rarely ends up working that way if you don't play into the TLT player's hands. So much can happen.

Excellent post. Explaining, in pictures, what people have been talking about really puts into perspective where a TLT list is strong and where it falls down, allowing us to progress past whining and get on to actually flying our ships, and having fun!

My games involving 4x TLTs have been all about spacing and range control and this kind of subtle formation stuff can be the difference between a jousting list starting at range 3 only taking 2 TLTs on the entry and shooting back a lot more and getting focus-fired down hard.

People always talk about all four TLTs being able to shoot the same thing but it just rarely ends up working that way if you don't play into the TLT player's hands. So much can happen.

But, but, but... "good players".

My games involving 4x TLTs have been all about spacing and range control and this kind of subtle formation stuff can be the difference between a jousting list starting at range 3 only taking 2 TLTs on the entry and shooting back a lot more and getting focus-fired down hard.

People always talk about all four TLTs being able to shoot the same thing but it just rarely ends up working that way if you don't play into the TLT player's hands. So much can happen.

But, but, but... "good players".

... play ships other than Arc dodgers

Great work with the second round of diagrams. 'Firing line' is very useful as a warning, as imcan now see that that formation has some pretty nasty deadzones.

Great work with the second round of diagrams. 'Firing line' is very useful as a warning, as imcan now see that that formation has some pretty nasty deadzones.

Those diagrams look fun and all until you realize he didnt account for the primary firing arcs.

Which means if you enter the 'deadzone' of the firing line it will still be 6-12red dice shooting at you.

Plus, there is the fact that you are trying to hit the dead zones of moving targets. And the "dead zones" in many cases are too small to actually fit a small base, let alone actually hit with the finite number of moves on your dial, even with boost, barrel roll, Daredevil shenanigans (all of which detract from offensive and defensive power unless you have Outmaneuver... against Y-Wings).

There is 1 problem with your graphics. You didn't add the normal firing arc of the ships. Because even if there is a donut hole at R1, they still can shoot with 3 dices in front arc.