I mocked up a template for the MC-80 and to test it and it flew the same way an AFII does at speed 2 even with the bigger base. The issue is it is very easy to block with another ship because it is too big to get past any ship that is in its forward arc. I think the key to this ship is to have another faster ship or squadrons nearby that can sweep around to kill the blocker if it happens. We also tested the fire power of the ISD against it and all kitted out with defensive upgrades and doing Eng ever round it took 3 full rounds of concentrated fire from the ISDs front arc at ranges 2/1/1 and survived even with the Overload Pulse/Avenger combo shutting down its defense tokens. This also became the center piece of the fight and allowed me to pincer the ISD very effectively. It is an interesting ship to fly.

3 turns of concentrated fire eh. . . That is more than anything else

What did the upgrades on both look like?

The ISD II had Avenger and Gunnery team and the MC-80 Assault Cruiser had Ray Antilles,Engineering Team,Redundant Shields and Advanced Projectors. So it had 8 Engineering points to spend 5 + 3 from the Token and a free shield back each turn. So I could repair 5 shields a round if needed. But I typically repaired hull first and then moved shields around.

Forcing your opponent to choose Navigation Commands to mitigate your hypothetical Tractor Beam spam grants him the added benefit of becoming more maneuverable (in terms of Yaw) than he may have originally intended. Meaning, you may just be taking away 'Bad' choices your opponent might have taken to mitigate your Tractor Beams.

Far reaching you think?

Forcing your opponent to choose Navigation Commands to mitigate your hypothetical Tractor Beam spam grants him the added benefit of becoming more maneuverable (in terms of Yaw) than he may have originally intended. Meaning, you may just be taking away 'Bad' choices your opponent might have taken to mitigate your Tractor Beams.

Far reaching you think?

How? (Barring Raymus/Wulff/Tarkin, and even in those cases the beam is nullifying an expensive upgrade)

He has to turn those dials into tokens the turn BEFORE my beam goes off, then spend the tokens to counteract the beam. He's not benefitting from spent navigation dials, he's having to expend them just to maintain speed.

A smart man might forgo the tokens altogether and just stack navigation to speed back up and take a yaw click, sure, but that's all he's doing with his dials unless he likes lazily strolling through strong firing arcs at speed 1, and he certainly isn't going to speed up.

Navigation dials every turn, never being able to change speed?

Yeah, I'll take it.

... I start at Speed 2. During your Activation, you drop me down to Speed 1. During my Activation, I speed up to Speed 2 and take the Extra Yaw, from using a Command Dial: Navigate.

No big deal.

If I even care about going faster than Speed 1 anyway... You'll be in Range of my Guns then.

... I start at Speed 2. During your Activation, you drop me down to Speed 1. During my Activation, I speed up to Speed 2 and take the Extra Yaw, from using a Command Dial: Navigate.

No big deal.

If I even care about going faster than Speed 1 anyway... You'll be in Range of my Guns then.

You're assuming optimal positioning.

If the enemy tractoring you is behind you or even straight ahead rather than wandering through your broadside, he's going to annihilate that big ol squid while keeping him comfortably at range, even with engine techs.

I don't know what game you guys have been playing where speed is such a blase topic, but in my games at least going the wrong speed on the wrong turn gets you killed, particularly when its limited to 2 in the first place.

Regardless, you know what you're definitely NOT doing? Repairing or moving squadrons. (Concentrate Fire with its diminishing returns seems a bit foolhardy off the large ships I admit)

Again, I'll take it.

... I start at Speed 2. During your Activation, you drop me down to Speed 1. During my Activation, I speed up to Speed 2 and take the Extra Yaw, from using a Command Dial: Navigate.

No big deal.

If I even care about going faster than Speed 1 anyway... You'll be in Range of my Guns then.

You're assuming optimal positioning.

If the enemy tractoring you is behind you or even straight ahead rather than wandering through your broadside, he's going to annihilate that big ol squid while keeping him comfortably at range, even with engine techs.

I don't know what game you guys have been playing where speed is such a blase topic, but in my games at least going the wrong speed on the wrong turn gets you killed, particularly when its limited to 2 in the first place.

Regardless, you know what you're definitely NOT doing? Repairing or moving squadrons. (Concentrate Fire with its diminishing returns seems a bit foolhardy off the large ships I admit)

Again, I'll take it.

We're both very blase then.

Because even now with AFMKIIs, I'm deploying parallel with the back table and making my slow circuit.

... I start at Speed 2. During your Activation, you drop me down to Speed 1. During my Activation, I speed up to Speed 2 and take the Extra Yaw, from using a Command Dial: Navigate.

No big deal.

If I even care about going faster than Speed 1 anyway... You'll be in Range of my Guns then.

Tractor Beams are far more annoying against ships that are speed 3 or 4.

A speed 2 ship goes "Oh no. . . I am speed 1, we'll right back to 2 it is"

A speed 3 and 4 ship go" Oh ****, oh **** can't get away! "

... I start at Speed 2. During your Activation, you drop me down to Speed 1. During my Activation, I speed up to Speed 2 and take the Extra Yaw, from using a Command Dial: Navigate.

No big deal.

If I even care about going faster than Speed 1 anyway... You'll be in Range of my Guns then.

You're assuming optimal positioning.

If the enemy tractoring you is behind you or even straight ahead rather than wandering through your broadside, he's going to annihilate that big ol squid while keeping him comfortably at range, even with engine techs.

I don't know what game you guys have been playing where speed is such a blase topic, but in my games at least going the wrong speed on the wrong turn gets you killed, particularly when its limited to 2 in the first place.

Regardless, you know what you're definitely NOT doing? Repairing or moving squadrons. (Concentrate Fire with its diminishing returns seems a bit foolhardy off the large ships I admit)

Again, I'll take it.

We're both very blase then.

Because even now with AFMKIIs, I'm deploying parallel with the back table and making my slow circuit.

Speed is important but we are saying that they can be mitigated. Sure being slowed down can hurt a ton BUT, this is a speed 2 ships with a click and a click at speed 2. That means if I have to Nav to. Pick up speed I am getting a 67.5° turn to bring my huge Nebulon-B like sides into play. If you have to tractor beam me again go. Ahead but there are more targets and this thing can take several hits before getting close to wilting.

In a fleet engagement where I have the list from page 2, you can tractor beam my MC80 but the Assault Frigates can command the squadrons as well and punish the ship you used to get into range of the MC80.

This is not a vacuum game. There are variables.

Also who says I don't mind you making me. Move slow, if you are going speed 3 to. Catch my. MC80 with your ISD and slower to 1, you will need to slow down as well next turn or that turn, or you risk running right into my B-Wings.

That's the game.

If you're putting in Nav commands every turn, that means there's no CF commands going out, no Squadron commands, no Engineering commands. That's a win for the tractor beam player, every single time. You're dictating your opponents choices. That's HUGE in a tactical game based on maneuvering like this one.

If you're putting in Nav commands every turn, that means there's no CF commands going out, no Squadron commands, no Engineering commands. That's a win for the tractor beam player, every single time. You're dictating your opponents choices. That's HUGE in a tactical game based on maneuvering like this one.

The game is fluid and you can't always let yourself follow a single choice.

Sure, but you may not be in activation range for your squadrons next turn. Your MC-30 may have just gotten tagged and now is sitting at medium range from your enemies gunline. Demolisher got tripped up by a Tractor-Beam equipped Raider and now doesn't have his token to activate Engine techs to get inside close range.

The point of Tractor Beams, is that it 100% makes your opponents life more difficult, no matter what, with very little input on your part besides the 6pt investment, and deciding who in range to apply it to. Your opponent, however, has to rethink his entire movement strategy for the next 1-3 rounds depending on his ship size. Even if there's a Leia, or Tarkin, or Veteran Captain, etc. that can nullify the setback from losing a command token or speed decrease, you still made your opponent make a move he didn't want to do. He had to expend actions, which are valuable resources in this game, to counter your passive effect.

That's Sun Tzu, Art of War level stuff.

The context of your typing seems very aggressive.

You are looking at it from that aspect and as I have stated, you are right. However coming from perspective of how I would counter something like that, I would not let it phase me.

Oh no! I have to stack Nav commands for a few turns, that suck's. Oh well that's fine I can survive those attacks and use that to my advantage to advance my plans.

Predictable strategies can be reversed with patience.

You brought up the MC30 which is silly. My entire context is on the list I posted. Each ship has their own needs. The MC30 is speed and movement so Nav commands were likely to be there anyway. The Assault Frigate loves it's speed and likes nav commands, the MC80 enjoys Nav commands as well so me stacking them are I lyrics a minor hindrance.

You also seem to be ignoring the face that the ship that wants to use its tractor beams have to get into range. The VSD will take time to do that for the Assault Frigates and smaller while the ISD will become a HUGE target.

Go test the long range attacks of the posted list and then 1 turn later the Medium range. That ISD dies in 2 rounds

Yup, ISD killed likely in 2 rounds from that list. It can't handle what's being thrown at it.

The context of your typing seems very aggressive.

You are looking at it from that aspect and as I have stated, you are right. However coming from perspective of how I would counter something like that, I would not let it phase me.

Oh no! I have to stack Nav commands for a few turns, that suck's. Oh well that's fine I can survive those attacks and use that to my advantage to advance my plans.

Predictable strategies can be reversed with patience.

You brought up the MC30 which is silly. My entire context is on the list I posted. Each ship has their own needs. The MC30 is speed and movement so Nav commands were likely to be there anyway. The Assault Frigate loves it's speed and likes nav commands, the MC80 enjoys Nav commands as well so me stacking them are I lyrics a minor hindrance.

You also seem to be ignoring the face that the ship that wants to use its tractor beams have to get into range. The VSD will take time to do that for the Assault Frigates and smaller while the ISD will become a HUGE target.

Go test the long range attacks of the posted list and then 1 turn later the Medium range. That ISD dies in 2 rounds

All that's being proposed here is that Tractor Beams, one of the most interesting new gameplay mechanics we've received, is not ENTIRELY useless.

You admit that the tractor beam can be mitigated to being a mild hindrance. Nobody is arguing that it is the end-all-be-all game winning upgrade, what we're arguing is that it has a small, cheap, passive effect that, compounded with making good choices, deploying well, and generally playing to your strengths, can have a lot of interesting effects.

I get that you don't see any particular value in forcing the opponent to stack navigate commands. I personally think that you'll be surprised when you see how big a disruption they can be in the right hands.

Some of us thoroughly enjoy adapting real-world battlefield strategy and theory into our games, and the ability to control, limit, or harass your opponent at a time when they need to be thinking and acting with clarity is generally regarded as a potent weapon. A number of close-shave games that would have been changed entirely by the addition of this upgrade come to mind immediately. I know it's on my mind when I'm building my lists even now, and this is just another tool in the box.

As has been said, we'll see how it fares when it hits the table, and people have had a chance to play with it.

Updated list.

+++ Assault of the MC80's (396pts) +++

++ Rebel Fleet (Standard) (396pts) ++

+ Assault Frigate MkII (190pts) +

Assault Frigate Mark IIB (95pts) [Advanced Projectors (6pts), Enhanced Armament (10pts), Gunnery Team (7pts)]

Assault Frigate Mark IIB (95pts) [Advanced Projectors (6pts), Enhanced Armament (10pts), Gunnery Team (7pts)]

+ MC80 Cruiser (166pts) +

MC80 Assault Cruiser (166pts) [Advanced Projectors (6pts), Redundant Shields (8pts), •Admiral Ackbar (38pts)]

+ Squadrons (40pts) +

Y-Wing Squadron (10pts)

Y-Wing Squadron (10pts)

Y-Wing Squadron (10pts)

Y-Wing Squadron (10pts)

+ Objectives +

Assault Objective [Advanced Gunnery]

Defense Objective [Fire Lanes]

Navigation Objective [intel Sweep]

18 red dice the turn a ship comes in to tractor beam. Unless they come at the rear.

Okay so your one list might not mind as much about tractors. But lots and lots of other builds and strategies might be

The context of your typing seems very aggressive.

You are looking at it from that aspect and as I have stated, you are right. However coming from perspective of how I would counter something like that, I would not let it phase me.

Oh no! I have to stack Nav commands for a few turns, that suck's. Oh well that's fine I can survive those attacks and use that to my advantage to advance my plans.

Predictable strategies can be reversed with patience.

You brought up the MC30 which is silly. My entire context is on the list I posted. Each ship has their own needs. The MC30 is speed and movement so Nav commands were likely to be there anyway. The Assault Frigate loves it's speed and likes nav commands, the MC80 enjoys Nav commands as well so me stacking them are I lyrics a minor hindrance.

You also seem to be ignoring the face that the ship that wants to use its tractor beams have to get into range. The VSD will take time to do that for the Assault Frigates and smaller while the ISD will become a HUGE target.

Go test the long range attacks of the posted list and then 1 turn later the Medium range. That ISD dies in 2 rounds

All that's being proposed here is that Tractor Beams, one of the most interesting new gameplay mechanics we've received, is not ENTIRELY useless.

You admit that the tractor beam can be mitigated to being a mild hindrance. Nobody is arguing that it is the end-all-be-all game winning upgrade, what we're arguing is that it has a small, cheap, passive effect that, compounded with making good choices, deploying well, and generally playing to your strengths, can have a lot of interesting effects.

I get that you don't see any particular value in forcing the opponent to stack navigate commands. I personally think that you'll be surprised when you see how big a disruption they can be in the right hands.

Some of us thoroughly enjoy adapting real-world battlefield strategy and theory into our games, and the ability to control, limit, or harass your opponent at a time when they need to be thinking and acting with clarity is generally regarded as a potent weapon. A number of close-shave games that would have been changed entirely by the addition of this upgrade come to mind immediately. I know it's on my mind when I'm building my lists even now, and this is just another tool in the box.

As has been said, we'll see how it fares when it hits the table, and people have had a chance to play with it.

I mean that I am not letting it control my actions completely. Sure I have to do this for to counter that but that is expected. I am not losing any sleep to this though. Let them tractor beam a ship. Go ahead and get into my favorite range so I can show you the mistake

The context of your typing seems very aggressive.

You are looking at it from that aspect and as I have stated, you are right. However coming from perspective of how I would counter something like that, I would not let it phase me.

Oh no! I have to stack Nav commands for a few turns, that suck's. Oh well that's fine I can survive those attacks and use that to my advantage to advance my plans.

Predictable strategies can be reversed with patience.

You brought up the MC30 which is silly. My entire context is on the list I posted. Each ship has their own needs. The MC30 is speed and movement so Nav commands were likely to be there anyway. The Assault Frigate loves it's speed and likes nav commands, the MC80 enjoys Nav commands as well so me stacking them are I lyrics a minor hindrance.

You also seem to be ignoring the face that the ship that wants to use its tractor beams have to get into range. The VSD will take time to do that for the Assault Frigates and smaller while the ISD will become a HUGE target.

Go test the long range attacks of the posted list and then 1 turn later the Medium range. That ISD dies in 2 rounds

All that's being proposed here is that Tractor Beams, one of the most interesting new gameplay mechanics we've received, is not ENTIRELY useless.

You admit that the tractor beam can be mitigated to being a mild hindrance. Nobody is arguing that it is the end-all-be-all game winning upgrade, what we're arguing is that it has a small, cheap, passive effect that, compounded with making good choices, deploying well, and generally playing to your strengths, can have a lot of interesting effects.

I get that you don't see any particular value in forcing the opponent to stack navigate commands. I personally think that you'll be surprised when you see how big a disruption they can be in the right hands.

Some of us thoroughly enjoy adapting real-world battlefield strategy and theory into our games, and the ability to control, limit, or harass your opponent at a time when they need to be thinking and acting with clarity is generally regarded as a potent weapon. A number of close-shave games that would have been changed entirely by the addition of this upgrade come to mind immediately. I know it's on my mind when I'm building my lists even now, and this is just another tool in the box.

As has been said, we'll see how it fares when it hits the table, and people have had a chance to play with it.

You are misreading what I mean.

I mean that I am not letting it control my actions completely. Sure I have to do this for to counter that but that is expected. I am not losing any sleep to this though. Let them tractor beam a ship. Go ahead and get into my favorite range so I can show you the mistake

It doesn't need to control your actions completely.

But you *will* have to consider it.

That's the point.

Okay so your one list might not mind as much about tractors. But lots and lots of other builds and strategies might be

Assault Frigates and Scout Frigate lists will hate getting dropped to 1...

The list goes on.

It doesn't need to control your actions completely.

But you *will* have to consider it.

That's the point.

Wooooooo! Man, you guys have me convinced. I'm just gonna forfeit my game if I face Tractor Beams. Too stronk for me. Hopefully we get an article from FFG that illustrates how to defeat such a beast of an upgrade. Gonna take up playing Hello Kitty Island Adventures until then, cuz, like, what's the point. Amirite? /sarcasm off. This type of ish is settled on the table...preferably served with healthy portions of crow.

Yeah Dano! Quit! Then sell me your stuff for cheap!

This type of ish is settled on the table...preferably served with healthy portions of crow.

But we can't settle it yet! Till then, I'm okay to take stands. We're right until we're not, eh?

Wooooooo! Man, you guys have me convinced. I'm just gonna forfeit my game if I face Tractor Beams. Too stronk for me. Hopefully we get an article from FFG that illustrates how to defeat such a beast of an upgrade. Gonna take up playing Hello Kitty Island Adventures until then, cuz, like, what's the point. Amirite? /sarcasm off. This type of ish is settled on the table...preferably served with healthy portions of crow.

I think it is best when you have several of them and amazing against ships going speed 3+. Raiders can take them for instance and stop CR90 and MC30 swarms. They may even mess with placement and formations which is an advantage but I am wondering how often it will be taken

Don't get me wrong. I have a healthy respect for tractor beams on my opponent. But I think it's easy to play smart enough to overcome the issue.

That and right now it's only in the ISD pack (I could be wrong...I'm a little poped up on cold meds). I don't think too many smart fellas are going to run more than 2 and unless you've got deep pockets, probably won't buy more than that anyways.