I've been trying to build some fleets for Sullust and I just don't think that 400 is enough points. I think that either they should raise it to 450 or 500 or do something like you get a pool of points to spend on squadrons only equal to 5 times a ships squadron value. Thoughts?

While I'd love to have more stuff on the board because it's always fun to be able to just about build anything you want.... the point limitation helps me make interesting choices because I can't have most things I want and this makes it even more fun for me. Finding those good combinations with cards/ships/objectives is a good chunk of the fun of this game for me.

Sullust is 300 unless you mean the final round. I think 400 is plenty. You have to be forced to make some difficult decisions when list building in any game.

300 feels cramped for normal games :\ I can't wait for the increase to 400.

A limit always forces interesting choices, whether that limit is 300, 400, or 2,000. To say that the choices at 400 are more interesting is a bit blinkered, IMO. I think they'd be just as interesting at 600, and I fully intend to make 1,000 point games a regular thing.

I have felt like 300 is too little.

I already feel like 400 is too little.

So I'm cramming as much good stuff on, and making tough calls, and wrangling all sorts of upgrades, and ships. And it is a lot of fun. Many more points wouldn't be as fun, because you wouldn't be forced to cram, and strategize as much in the list-building phase.

You are just as forced to cram, no matter the size of the limit. Be that 400 points or 14,000 points, there are always things you want to include that you won't have points for and there are always hard decisions to make about how to spend your points.

You are just as forced to cram, no matter the size of the limit. Be that 400 points or 14,000 points, there are always things you want to include that you won't have points for and there are always hard decisions to make about how to spend your points.

Yes and no...

it's A LOT easier to cram the higher up you go with total fleet points because you can outfit some ships exactly how you want them and still have enough points to do some of the other things you wanted.

You can't always get what you want. >:[

Also, remember your opponent has the same issue to deal with, so it's still fair.

I've been trying to build lists lately and honestly I've felt the exact same way. I thought 400 points would be great because 300 always felt cramped but with the increase in ship prices and the unavoidable desire to deck out the big ships to get the most out of them I'm landing in the exact same boat. If I do the ships I want then I don't have room for fighters, if I do the fighters I want I'm severly limited on ships. I don't think tournaments are going to change but when I'm playing with friends I'm going to suggest going to 450 or 500.

just limit your self to 2 cards on a ship and you will find the game plays better and you have the points for your fighters and have more fun.

I'm a firm believer that the Sacrifices you have to make to build a list defines your playing style.

If using the larger ships the new 400 point standard is actually a reduction in model count from current situation as the two new big ships are both weighing in way over 100 points plus upgrades. I only get to play once a month and want to be able to use more interesting fleets. I can see us increasing to 500 as standard.

300 you can do 3 vsds. At 400 you can do 5. Easy. Lol so. Nope. 400 doesn't feel too small.

I am in the 500 boat as well.

400 is a big increase for what we have now. But factoring in wave 2 and just how pricey those ships are, it actually makes the game look smaller.

Also at 500 points more of the table would likely be in use at one time (another complaint that has popped up from time to time).

Lastly, 500 is a much prettier number than 300 or 400.

Think 400 is fine. At 500 it start getting bogged down. Think no matter how many poiny it nevet be enough. Atleast at 400 you won't have to buy to much more

I feel you, OP. I've been messing around on Fab's the last few days, and I'm feeling a lot more cramped at 400 points than I thought I would. I certainly wouldn't hate an increase to 500. I think the biggest thing I want to be able to do that I don't feel like I can is make two capable battle groups. Two 200-ish point groups just doesn't feel effective.

That being said, there are three stipulations I'm trying to keep in mind:

1. Will Large ships feel necessary? Aside from swarm strategies, if you really feel like you need a large ship to be able to properly control the battlefield, then 400 will certainly feel too low. If Large ships aren't brought all the time, 500 could feel too high. Do you really want to play against an 11-13 ship CR90 swarm? However, since we haven't actually played any of these new ships yet, it's hard to say.
2. Can rogues work as a poor man's replacement for a small ship? If you can get similar effectiveness from a rogue as say a CR90 for half the price, then that will add more list flexibility. Again, haven't played or even seen yet, so definitely all speculative at this point.
3. More ships could theoretically fix this issue. Right now, we don't have much flexibility when it comes to how we want to chunk out our points. More ships with varied capabilities for varied costs will allow for more granularity in list building. Take for example my desire for two battle groups:
   • For Imps, a Vic with a couple Raiders feels too expensive, but a Glad feels too limited in its capabilities to replace the Vic (don't want the key ship in the group primarily throwing black dice), though the price is right. In a future world where we the Imps have a Glad-priced ship that has more flexible dice, or Raider cost ships that have red dice, that group could work.
   • For Rebs, MC30 could work, but it's pretty pricey and I'm not sure what I'd support it with. Plus, the low squadron value limits what it can do, as I'd definitely want to run at least some squads in both groups. The Neb-B feels good--good price, flexible titles, passable squadron value--but it's currently the odd man out in Reb lists as it's a forward arc ship instead of a side arc like the rest. A theoretical battlegroup of 2 MC30s + Neb-B I think would feel great from a gameplay perspective, but it's cost-prohibitive. Cheaper MC30-like sluggers would really compliment a Neb-B, or a 70-80 point Neb-B style ship would work well in tandem with a single MC30.

I think the game will increase to 500 points as standard with wave 3, but I am starting to like 400 points. I like the idea that if you have a large ship, you have to make sacrifices somewhere to fit it in. 500 points will mean 1 large as standard.

I'm feeling your pain about the Neb B. It's a great ship in a great price range, but it's combat focus is opposed to the rest of the rebel ships so it's very hard to synergise it with the rest of the fleet.

Imposing a 400 point limit forces people to stick to a cohesive strategy and a definite play style. It also helps keep the financial cost of playing competitively down to a more friendly level.

if you want to play 500 point games, ask around for people if they would like to partake. Chances are you will find a few that would love the experience.

I'm actually surprised they didn't go to 450, it makes the 1/3 points spent on fighters a lot easier to figure out. It also helps deal with the fact that you have to spend 20-40 points on your commander.

The big ships are quite expensive, even with only a few upgrades. I wouldn't mind a modest point increase.

We already occasionally play 400 and are planning a 1000 point game once wave two comes out. 300 is definitely best for short evening games, but for a full day game and wine marathon you need to go big.

having a large mega battle can be fun but I would want to do it all the time half the fun is building the list and trying to work with in the points allowed.

I too expect to see the Wave III expansion increase the point total to 500, but I don't think they'll be going bigger in terms of the ships they'll be adding. That should give everybody the opportunity to play smaller games at 400, at at 500 step up the fleets.