Rebel wave 2 ships are looking awesome, especially because they both have a lot of shields, they both have two redirect tokens, and they can both take advanced projectors. That's tanky.

With that in mind, I see this upgrade becoming commonplace come wave 2, especially on ships like ISDs. This would severely limit the strengths of the MC30c and the MC80.

These upgrades have been discussed a bit here, but now that Wave 2 is coming I wanted to know if you plan on using xi7's in your lists, given that advanced projectors will be more widely used.

It's still up to 3 damage redirected, so adv proj limits their utility a bit.

Wait, nope.

Only 1 damage can be moved to a hull zone that is not the defending hull zone. It limits adv proj a lot.

1 Damage to each of the 3 other hull zones, as per FAQ/Rules Section Answer from FFG.

I hear that the XI7 only comes in the Neb-B expansion? Is that true?

Only 1 damage can be moved to a hull zone that is not the defending hull zone. It limits adv proj a lot.

1 Damage to each of the 3 other hull zones, as per FAQ/Rules Section Answer from FFG.

This is correct. As clarified by FFG. Which is why all the AFs are running projectors already - it's a great card

yup, projectors > x17s (or xi7s w.e)

which is why Heavy Turbo-laser Turret seems like a nifty alternative (Except against the shrimp; no brace). Redirect all you want, you're still getting a face-full of damage and those shields will have to crumple eventually.

In fact, I think HTT will be the go to generalist upgrade for the Scout Shrimp under Akbar. With 4-5 red dice at range and holywtfbbq amounts of dice at close range, HTT targeting the combined us of brace + redirects will come in handy regardless of which range the shrimp is at.

I have been debating on what would be better.

XI7 will be very effective against these new ships that will have a lot of shields to go through. But I feel that Heavy Turbolaser Turrets (HTT) will also see a lot of play as well, maybe even more than XI7, mainly due to redirects being very good when paired with brace. HTT will force a tough decision, they can either use redirect on its own, suffering all points of damage on shields (multiple sides if they use AP). Or they can only use brace, suffering all points of damage on a single side, potentially leaving that side with no shields.

But both will be very strong, and I can see a lot of play for both upgrades.

yup, projectors > x17s (or xi7s w.e)

which is why Heavy Turbo-laser Turret seems like a nifty alternative (Except against the shrimp; no brace). Redirect all you want, you're still getting a face-full of damage and those shields will have to crumple eventually.

In fact, I think HTT will be the go to generalist upgrade for the Scout Shrimp under Akbar. With 4-5 red dice at range and holywtfbbq amounts of dice at close range, HTT targeting the combined us of brace + redirects will come in handy regardless of which range the shrimp is at.

Not the XI7's are good with the ISD so I see it getting played there a lot.

The new ships with massive shields and access to new, multiple or redundant defence upgrades make me anticipate the rise of the APT in wave 2.

The best way to get around all that defence may simply be to go through it.

The new ships with massive shields and access to new, multiple or redundant defence upgrades make me anticipate the rise of the APT in wave 2.

The best way to get around all that defence may simply be to go through it.

It's going to be harder to get there to deliver those APTs than it currently is. I think an Ackbar gunline is going to be a hard counter to any attempt to run massed APTs. An AFII will have no problem pumping out 6 reds. The MC80 assault can have 7. Now add gunnery teams to those AFIIs and have them concentrate fire. Yikes.

As for the XI7s, I have a feeling XI7s and HTT will be situational. They will both shine against certain targets, but be useless against others. That means they'll likely not make the cut in tournament lists.

General i go intell officer for the brace removal, and x17 for the redirect

Nope, I shoot you in the front, then the side then the rear. Who cares what shields go, sooner or later they pretty much all have to go.

I found there is a counter intuitive problem, by trying to hit you in the same arc over many turns I end up in just as much trouble. Keeping the same arc to the same facing.

Just a friendly reminder to the talk of "situational use of the X17" and "everyone will be running Advanced Projectors" comments.

Imperial Ships with a Defensive slot for the APro, Imperial Star Destroyer 2. Impie ships with double redirects, ISD and VSD, while the GSD has a single Redirect. Versus these ships, the X17 will be very good. These are also the ships with Brace, adding in the Raider, and so ships that can be dealt with by HTTs, of course these ships all have but a single Brace which can be nullified by a single Accuracy, something Home One can be handing out like candy on Halloween.

Rebel Ships without a Defensive slot, NebB. Rebs without a single or double Redirect, NebB. The X17 will have a tough time versus all Rebs but this ship, which also happens to be the Rebel ship the HTT will have the most impact on, and the ship many claim shouldn't be fielded.

The MC80 and Space Guppy each have a single Brace, so this is the crux of the "situational" argument, one (or more) these two ships will find their way in to almost every Rebel list out there, exceptions being CR90 or Kung Pao Shrimp (aka MC30) swarms, and that's when both these Turbolasers become less effective. This means, as I see it at least, that the X17 will be effective versus most Imperial list and less effective versus Rebel list, so they become more "situational" if your area is more Rebel build dominated at cons, but will still be effective versus Impie list at venues that are Impie list heavy or balanced between the two list.

Just a friendly reminder to the talk of "situational use of the X17" and "everyone will be running Advanced Projectors" comments.

Imperial Ships with a Defensive slot for the APro, Imperial Star Destroyer 2. Impie ships with double redirects, ISD and VSD, while the GSD has a single Redirect. Versus these ships, the X17 will be very good. These are also the ships with Brace, adding in the Raider, and so ships that can be dealt with by HTTs, of course these ships all have but a single Brace which can be nullified by a single Accuracy, something Home One can be handing out like candy on Halloween.

Rebel Ships without a Defensive slot, NebB. Rebs without a single or double Redirect, NebB. The X17 will have a tough time versus all Rebs but this ship, which also happens to be the Rebel ship the HTT will have the most impact on, and the ship many claim shouldn't be fielded.

The MC80 and Space Guppy each have a single Brace, so this is the crux of the "situational" argument, one (or more) these two ships will find their way in to almost every Rebel list out there, exceptions being CR90 or Kung Pao Shrimp (aka MC30) swarms, and that's when both these Turbolasers become less effective. This means, as I see it at least, that the X17 will be effective versus most Imperial list and less effective versus Rebel list, so they become more "situational" if your area is more Rebel build dominated at cons, but will still be effective versus Impie list at venues that are Impie list heavy or balanced between the two list.

I might be misunderstanding your point, but HHTs will have no impact on the Neb-B or the Raider. Both do not have a re-direct, so HHTs don't force a choice. Thanks for the correction Lyraeus!

To present your analysis of XI7s in a different format:

No Re-direct (and therefore useless)

Raider

Nebulon-B

Re-direct+Defensive slot (and therefore limited)

ISD 2

MC80

AFII

MC30

Re-direct (and therefore awesome)

Victory

ISD 1

Gladiator

Corvette

So you've nail it perfectly. XI7s are best if you expect to face a lot of imperials, especially those running Gladiator swarms. Against Rebels, they're less useful. Personally, I'd inclined to just save the points or use the slot to get more dice. Those always do something =)

I'm dying to see what Slaved Turrets do and cost. I'm hoping they synergize well into an Ackbar build.

Thank you Truthiness, for boiling down my rambles to a clear to read format. Although you've got the ISD's reversed (I might have as well).

And yes, I'm dying to see the Alaved Turrets as well.

Fixed!

Remember that HTT also activates if ships like the Raider and the Nebulon-B want to use their evades as well (which getting rid of a Defiance's black hit/crit or red die 2 hit die) which can be important.

The goal of the HTT is to force decisions onto your opponent. The more choices they face, the more likely they will make a mistake

all these anti-token upgrades (HTT, x17s, h9s, EA, intel officer etc.) are only really worth it on ships that can fart out an inordinate amount of damage per activation (as they're the ones most stymied by defense tokens)

whichever one you use depends on the ship in question and what exactly it is you're trying to get around

HTT piles on the raw damage to overwhelm redirect shields even through brace. Probably best used with a bunch of other ships that aren't packing anti-token tech (or perhaps squadrons)

that way, you force some very unattractive decisions. Either the opponent braces a weaker attack like a cr-90, or the opponent gets rocked by the HTT shrimpy and has nothing to defend itself with when the cr-90s/squadrons starts piling on

x17s I've noticed are a bit different. You really have to pour on fire onto the same side for them to pay off, and if all you're ships don't have them then there's not much point as the enemy can just save redirects for the ships lacking the upgrade.

there is, however, something to be said about smashing right through smaller, non-projector ships in a single volley.

That is why I like Akbar on a MC80 with flanking Space Whales

XI7s work best in multiples (couple of sniping Nebs) or on ships with very, very high damage output. A single XI7 isn't anything to write home about - you have to follow up with something (or maybe soften up with fighters). So it's a good card, but it works best against some ships, require you to have 2 or more, and/or play in a certain way.