Extra munitions instead of ion torps? Shame.

D'oh! How could I forget Ion Torpedoes?

==Snip==

No. Just No. K6 triggers when you spend a target lock. If you fail that first roll, you LOSE THE LOCK. That means you can't roll again to get that 'fantastic action economy'.

I KNOW

My math had 3/8 chance of the second lock, 9/64 of the third, and 27/256 of the fourth.

Each was multiplied by 2, as they generate 2 locks a piece (assuming Dutch has sufficient allies nearby).

My math shows that it's fantastic action economy and perfectly viable even with the 5/8 failure rate.

Do I wish it could be better? Yes. Should "Dutch" get a Fire Control System instead? Not on your life, as that would be too powerful for the cost.

Kir Kanos. It's such a fun looking ability, but his lack of an EPT (thus, lack of PTL), really hampers him. Which is kinda crap, since Kir Kanos is a Royal Guardsman and the generic royal guards get an EPT!!!

BUT, my disagreement with design choice aside...

I think Palpatine turns him into, finally, a plausible pilot. Palp gives him a wee bit of possible dice modification, letting him either hold onto his Evade when he's shot at so he can use it with an attack, or help him get another "crit" in which he can help punch through with his ability.

Bonus points for Palp riding on Jendon's shuttle, as it opens up the possibility for Jendon to pass Kanos a TL to modify his attacks with.

You could also fly Kanos alongside a ship with a Fleet Officer, and use that to pass him a Focus. It's 1-2 compared to Jendon's TL's 1, with the trade-off that he can't hold onto it for later. Of course, you could possibly combine them, flying Jendon with a Fleet Officer... but no Palpatine. Of course, Flight Instructor stressing out a Space Cow isn't super ideal, either.

Maybe

Kir Kanos

Royal Guard Pilot

Autothrusters

Stealth Device

Carnor Jax

Royal Guard Pilot

Push The Limit

Autothrusters

Stealth Device

Colonel Jendon

Emperor Palpatine

ST-321

OR

Kir Kanos

Royal Guard Pilot

Autothrusters

Stealth Device

Maarek Stele

TIE/x1

Predator

Advanced Targeting Computer

Stealth Device

Colonel Jendon

Fleet Officer

Weapons Engineer

ST-321

Fire-Control System

OR

Kir Kanos

Royal Guard Pilot

Autothrusters

Stealth Device

So, related to this line of thinking, I have a question related to an upgrade I see very rarely, and a question as to whether we, as a community, can make this viable. You guys have said some profound things about a couple upgrades I had abandoned. What do you guys think about Autoblaster Turrets?

Here is why it's on my mind:

The Autoblaster Turret was launched in Wave 5 with the Most Wanted upgrade, with it being our introduction to the Scum & Villainy faction. It's a very scummy thing--roll two dice, and your opponent won't be able to block some of the damage. But it only works at range 1, and occupies the slot that would normally grant you a range 2 (and now 3) attack.

Curiously, it was also launched in the same set that gave you the then-new BTL-A4 Y-Wing title, and the Unhinged Astromech. Initially, there was a lot of excitement with this combo--you could equip the unblockable cannon, chase someone down at speed 3 and get into range 1, and perform two attacks.

Where else could we see the Autoblaster turret? Certainly not on the slow HWKs. And is that the turret you necessarily want to be carrying on a K-Wing? I guess you could get into range 1 pretty easily, but not without a Weapons Disabled token, and not when TLT is the king of turrets.

So why didn't the Autoblaster Turret + BTL-A4 Y-Wing + Unhinged Astromech catch on?

I think it is because there are no Y-Wing pilots that have the Pilot Skill to take advantage of their speed. Kavil, your highest PS Scum Y-Wing, does not want BTL-A4 for very obvious reasons. Drea wants it, but her pilot skill is not high enough (even with VI) to allow her to keep up with the competition--with Brobots, TIE Interceptors, TIE Phantoms, A-Wings, Corran Horn, and Dash Rendar. On the Rebel side, Horton Salm doesn't want Autoblaster Turret, and Dutch Vander is somewhat indifferent to it, but he doesn't really have the pilot skill for it (nor the ability to take VI).

Ultimately, what it comes down to, is this is one of the reasons I am an advocate for a Y-Wing (and TIE Bomber) aces pack. Rebel Y-Wings that can take VI, so that BTL-A4 (even with R2 Astromechs) and Autoblaster Turrets become viable. On the Scum side, a relatively high PS pilot (at least above 6, come on) whose ability isn't wasted when taking BTL-A4. (While I'm on the topic, it would be cool to see any pilot ability or Rebel astromech help with bombs.)

So I bring this to you guys:

What can you do to make Autoblaster Turrets competitive?

The autoblaster turret is alright for the cost- but the thing is, I think, what it can do just isn't very interesting. I tried a Kavil build using it(and boost) to try to get in. It's dirt cheap but it still sucks like a lot of the secondary turrets, particularly when used as turrets and not a second shot with the BTL title.

I just have better ways to deny territory to your average Soontir than sticking a Y wing kinda near where he wants to go. If I want a list that has heavy area denial I am going to go with a feedback Z swarm, not autoblaster turrets.

I'm sure I saw 5x Thugs w Autoblaster do reasonably well when Most Wanted first hit.

It's a lot of HP to grind through, and 5x range 1 bubbles can be difficult to get out of the way of.

I'm sure I saw 5x Thugs w Autoblaster do reasonably well when Most Wanted first hit.

It's a lot of HP to grind through, and 5x range 1 bubbles can be difficult to get out of the way of.

That's an interesting comparison. But it begs the question: how does 5x Thugs/Autoblaster Turret stack against 5x Cartel Marauder? I have a friend in my local game group who plays 5x Cartel Marauder, so I may borrow a Y-Wing and play this match up.

Anyone feel like doing some number crunching and seeing which match up should statistically win?

I'm sure I saw 5x Thugs w Autoblaster do reasonably well when Most Wanted first hit.

It's a lot of HP to grind through, and 5x range 1 bubbles can be difficult to get out of the way of.

That's an interesting comparison. But it begs the question: how does 5x Thugs/Autoblaster Turret stack against 5x Cartel Marauder? I have a friend in my local game group who plays 5x Cartel Marauder, so I may borrow a Y-Wing and play this match up.

Anyone feel like doing some number crunching and seeing which match up should statistically win?

Depends on two things.

1. Is BTL-A4 involved?
2. Can the Y-Wings force the fight at R1?

Neither force has repositional abilities, so it becomes which can outfly which. Range 2-3, the Khiraxz wins. Range 1, the Y-Wing has two different methods of winning, depending on whether it has BTL-A4 (out-damage at R1 if no ships are in each others arcs with turret, out-damage in-arc with BTL-A4).

I'm not sure whether it's a better idea to take BTL-A4 or not. I'm pretty confident in my ability to pilot Y-Wings, so I think I can do it. But the thing is, I've never had to line up R1 in-arc shots with Y-Wings. I've always flown Ion Cannons until this point.

But I think, with 5 ships, and even if I'm not at my best, I should be able to line up enough R1 shots. It goes against my instincts, though, which are to fly just past my opponent, or beside my opponent, where I can still shoot them outside of arc. I might need BTL-A4 to maximize my damage though. I dunno.

I'm not sure whether it's a better idea to take BTL-A4 or not. I'm pretty confident in my ability to pilot Y-Wings, so I think I can do it. But the thing is, I've never had to line up R1 in-arc shots with Y-Wings. I've always flown Ion Cannons until this point.

But I think, with 5 ships, and even if I'm not at my best, I should be able to line up enough R1 shots. It goes against my instincts, though, which are to fly just past my opponent, or beside my opponent, where I can still shoot them outside of arc. I might need BTL-A4 to maximize my damage though. I dunno.

A dilemma, 'tis true.

Do you get more damage from the double-attack in-arc, or do you get more damage from the single attack out-of-arc? Depends on how good you are at getting the shot in-arc, and how often you fight foes who can stay out of it at-will.

I think the best option might actually be both. My formation should have a front row of 3 Y-Wings without the title. The rear 2 Y-Wings will have the title. This allows my Y-Wings, after the initial joust, to slow roll around in front of my opponents ships, allowing me to attack out of the side amd getting them set up for the chase in the next two or three rounds. Meanwhile, my BTL-A4s roll up and send R1 shots into the confused mess of bumping ships.

Ultimately, though, I feel a match of 5 Golds vs 5 Marauders would come down to whoever won the initiative roll. That will determine a lot of action-blocking and action-getting economy, which will be critical in landing hits. That one-hard turn maneuver on the Marauder really helps it in the long run, though...

I use expose on keyan farlander with experimental interface and also flew biggs in the squad. It's pretty good, 4 dice with TL and a pseudo-focus - 5 at range 1.

Yeha - I've run that same combo on Keyan - but the trouble is, for 7 points, (Expose + EI) you can just take a heavy laser cannon - it's different at range 1 of course. the AGI penalty feels less painful on Keyan. Opportunist lets you get the same effect for lesser points - but instead of AGI penalty, now you're looking at making sure the target has no tokens...

I'm sure I saw 5x Thugs w Autoblaster do reasonably well when Most Wanted first hit.

It's a lot of HP to grind through, and 5x range 1 bubbles can be difficult to get out of the way of.

That's an interesting comparison. But it begs the question: how does 5x Thugs/Autoblaster Turret stack against 5x Cartel Marauder? I have a friend in my local game group who plays 5x Cartel Marauder, so I may borrow a Y-Wing and play this match up.

Anyone feel like doing some number crunching and seeing which match up should statistically win?

Depends on two things.

1. Is BTL-A4 involved?
2. Can the Y-Wings force the fight at R1?

Neither force has repositional abilities, so it becomes which can outfly which. Range 2-3, the Khiraxz wins. Range 1, the Y-Wing has two different methods of winning, depending on whether it has BTL-A4 (out-damage at R1 if no ships are in each others arcs with turret, out-damage in-arc with BTL-A4).

I can't claim first hand experience, but my gut reaction is that BTL-A4 is too restrictive with a Range 1 only turret. I would run them without the title, and my game plan against 5x Cartel Marauders would be to joust early, then do a lot of crazy hard turns the resulting furball and try to force them to split fire, while using the turrets to focus down 1 at a time.

A point for countermeasures: Vader with Advanced Targeting Computer along with Soontir Fel and 2 AP's vs say Oicunn with Countermeasures.

You move, take your action, etc. Then Vader moves and target locks you, soontir moves and does Soontiry things to get into range 1 of you. Soontir is going to shoot first to strip shields, then Vader is going to shoot and add a crit to the result vs your 0 defense dice.

But you popped Countermeasures at the beginning of the round, so now Vader no longer has a TL on you so no ATC crit, and you raise your agility against those attacks, albeit to a 1, but still.

And generally I don't think you put Engine on Oicunn because it's wasted if you can use his ability. Unless you wanted to throw Daredevil and Dauntless on him and not take the hits for using daredevil, but then you're putting 9 points on him for a possible 1 extra damage and double stress.

Now, Countermeasures vs APL on him, that's a different argument. But in general I like Countermeasures to get rid of Vader TL's and auto crits, at least for one round.

Kir Kanos. It's such a fun looking ability, but his lack of an EPT (thus, lack of PTL), really hampers him.

His ability is really great. You can compensate for the lack of EPT by sticking a fleet officer on a doomshuttle nearby - ofc that increases the points loss, but with focus and evade kir kanos will do 3,25 damage on average, which is generally as good as a missile shot with extra accuracy actions. You have something like a 45% chance of getting 4 hits. That's good for a 26 point 3 agility fighter.

Now, what hasn't been mentioned yet is Fel's Wrath. He is generally on people's "Never Take This" list, and list Juggler proves that.

I took him to the Milwaukee Regional this year, with this list:

Fel's Wrath
Yorr with Fleet Officer and Advanced Sensors
Jax with VI and Autothrusters (yes, no PTL)
Mauler with VI

I found that people generally didn't want to shoot at Fel's Wrath, instead going for the other targets, which left me with a focused 3 or 4 dice attack every round. I ended up going 4-2, with both losses against people that made the top 10 out of 80 something people. My first loss was legit, my opponent flew very well and I flew poorly. My second loss, my opponent flew very well, but I was throwing 70%+ blanks on offense, usually while focused. I was getting lots of 4-dice shots, just rolling a ton of blanks that I couldn't do anything about.

But still, 4-2 with "The 7 Deadly Sins of X-wing" (Fel's Wrath, a shuttle, a shuttle without engine, interceptors without PtL, interceptor without Autothrusters, etc) in a tough field like that, I feel pretty good about.

I didn't use Fel's Wrath's ability,unfortunately for a few reasons:
1. In the games I won, 3 of which he didn't die. But I think his ability was a contributing factor in why people didn't shoot at him.
2. In the game I won where he did die, he was my only ship lost. And I made a mistake by going 3 fwd instead of 2 fwd with him, and Dash Barrel rolled out of his arc and popped him, so I didn't get a shot.
3. In the games I lost, the first one Chewie killed him, so it would have been Simultaneous Fire anyway.
4. I think he didn't have anyone in arc when he died in my other loss, because ships barrel rolled out of his arc.

But still, he was fun to play, and I think he's not as much of an auto-exclude anymore, especially with the right build.

Without reading the entire thread, so it might already be there, i would say Stay on target.

As a 2 point upgrade, it's not even its price that makes it bad but the stress it generates and the slot it takes up.

In the EPT slot it has competition like Lone Wolf, or the 1 point more expensive Predator and Push the limit.

If there was no PTL, i would say it would be one of the most interesting EPTs on high PS ships that don't mind the stress too much, like Soontir, Tycho or Farlander. But unless you find a way to clear stress before next turns maneuver, you always have to skip a turn of using SoT.

Speaking of said Keyan Farlander. He is probably the one pilot i would make an exception for and say that Stay on target is worth it, maybe even better than PTL. The best would be to give him Advanced Sensors with SoT. He can just eat away his stress while shooting, which is very easy considering SoT permitting him to nearly guarantee a maneuver that gives him a shot. With barrel roll before that, it's even easier. I have also seen people combine EU to that, but i don't think its necessary. So he is probably one of the few ships able to use SoT every turn which makes it a good choice for him as he wants the stress anyway. It might even be better than PTL on Farlander

because he's not meant to go head-on (unless you pull the five-speed maneuver to bump your victim). But, I guess let's consider him a jouster, because I just don't know.

Depends on the opposing ship and player. Going head-on can make it easier to block, which...well, if Arvel blocks you, you're going to have a bad time. For high value targets (hi, Soontir!) you absolutely want to be blocking them, and so coming around the back is the wrong idea.

Which isn't to say jousting, necessarily. But putting him where you expect your opponent to move in reaction to the movements of your other ships? Yeah, do that.

Speaking of said Keyan Farlander. He is probably the one pilot i would make an exception for and say that Stay on target is worth it, maybe even better than PTL. The best would be to give him Advanced Sensors with SoT. He can just eat away his stress while shooting, which is very easy considering SoT permitting him to nearly guarantee a maneuver that gives him a shot. With barrel roll before that, it's even easier. I have also seen people combine EU to that, but i don't think its necessary. So he is probably one of the few ships able to use SoT every turn which makes it a good choice for him as he wants the stress anyway. It might even be better than PTL on Farlander

It's a good combo with Intelligence Agent. Fun, too.

I think it is because there are no Y-Wing pilots that have the Pilot Skill to take advantage of their speed. Kavil, your highest PS Scum Y-Wing, does not want BTL-A4 for very obvious reasons. Drea wants it, but her pilot skill is not high enough (even with VI) to allow her to keep up with the competition--with Brobots, TIE Interceptors, TIE Phantoms, A-Wings, Corran Horn, and Dash Rendar. On the Rebel side, Horton Salm doesn't want Autoblaster Turret, and Dutch Vander is somewhat indifferent to it, but he doesn't really have the pilot skill for it (nor the ability to take VI).

I disagree about your assessment with Horton. First off, Horton could take the droid to have VI and get to PS 10. Of course, that does little without Engine Upgrade, and that gets expensive. I think even better is that Horton with Torps is scary, but if they close to range 1 they avoid that threat, and the threat of his ability. Autoblaster Turret is a 2 point insurance against that. No, it doesn't synergize, but it doesn't mean it's bad.

And Kavil can do things with it, but it seems like the Aggromech and Blaster Turret would be better for him.

So, related to this line of thinking, I have a question related to an upgrade I see very rarely, and a question as to whether we, as a community, can make this viable. You guys have said some profound things about a couple upgrades I had abandoned. What do you guys think about Autoblaster Turrets?

Here is why it's on my mind:

The Autoblaster Turret was launched in Wave 5 with the Most Wanted upgrade, with it being our introduction to the Scum & Villainy faction. It's a very scummy thing--roll two dice, and your opponent won't be able to block some of the damage. But it only works at range 1, and occupies the slot that would normally grant you a range 2 (and now 3) attack.

Curiously, it was also launched in the same set that gave you the then-new BTL-A4 Y-Wing title, and the Unhinged Astromech. Initially, there was a lot of excitement with this combo--you could equip the unblockable cannon, chase someone down at speed 3 and get into range 1, and perform two attacks.

Where else could we see the Autoblaster turret? Certainly not on the slow HWKs. And is that the turret you necessarily want to be carrying on a K-Wing? I guess you could get into range 1 pretty easily, but not without a Weapons Disabled token, and not when TLT is the king of turrets.

So why didn't the Autoblaster Turret + BTL-A4 Y-Wing + Unhinged Astromech catch on?

I think it is because there are no Y-Wing pilots that have the Pilot Skill to take advantage of their speed. Kavil, your highest PS Scum Y-Wing, does not want BTL-A4 for very obvious reasons. Drea wants it, but her pilot skill is not high enough (even with VI) to allow her to keep up with the competition--with Brobots, TIE Interceptors, TIE Phantoms, A-Wings, Corran Horn, and Dash Rendar. On the Rebel side, Horton Salm doesn't want Autoblaster Turret, and Dutch Vander is somewhat indifferent to it, but he doesn't really have the pilot skill for it (nor the ability to take VI).

Ultimately, what it comes down to, is this is one of the reasons I am an advocate for a Y-Wing (and TIE Bomber) aces pack. Rebel Y-Wings that can take VI, so that BTL-A4 (even with R2 Astromechs) and Autoblaster Turrets become viable. On the Scum side, a relatively high PS pilot (at least above 6, come on) whose ability isn't wasted when taking BTL-A4. (While I'm on the topic, it would be cool to see any pilot ability or Rebel astromech help with bombs.)

So I bring this to you guys:

What can you do to make Autoblaster Turrets competitive?

What?! People aren't using BTL-A4 + Autoblaster Turret? I have been and I love it. I usually only put it on 1 or 2 Y-wings and then use Z-95s and M3-As to block things into position. It's quite fun.

That R2-F3 is it? Droid. The one that's an action to add an agility. Seems like a waste but since it's an 'action' header card that doesn't take the EPT slot you can use it and PtL another normal action out. I could see some sort of gimmick build where you put him on Biggs with a stealth device and feed him an evade with Kyle focus battery hand off with a conversion to evade via Jan Ors crew, and a Squad Leader Experimental Interface Wedge that feeds Biggs a focus haha. Now you have Biggs at 4/5 agility with both a focus and evade token. XD

Oh, it gets better. Here's the squadron:

Biggs + R2F3 + Stealth Device

Kyle Katarn + predator + TLT + Jan Ors

Esege Tuketu + Recon Specialist + TLT

Biggs has 4 dice, 2 focus tokens and an evade token, so is in essence turtled like PTL soontir. The list does not have a huge damage output and manouvers like a herd of fat cows, but good luck shooting it down.

I think you should title Kyle instead of Predator, you need a bank of focus tokens to start with, as the list is vulnerable to bumping. It looks like a lot of fun. Annoying, but fun.

On the Rebel side, Horton Salm doesn't want Autoblaster Turret, and Dutch Vander is somewhat indifferent to it, but he doesn't really have the pilot skill for it (nor the ability to take VI).

He can via R2-D6 though:

http://xwing-miniatures.wikia.com/wiki/R2-D6

That R2-F3 is it? Droid. The one that's an action to add an agility. Seems like a waste but since it's an 'action' header card that doesn't take the EPT slot you can use it and PtL another normal action out. I could see some sort of gimmick build where you put him on Biggs with a stealth device and feed him an evade with Kyle focus battery hand off with a conversion to evade via Jan Ors crew, and a Squad Leader Experimental Interface Wedge that feeds Biggs a focus haha. Now you have Biggs at 4/5 agility with both a focus and evade token. XD

Oh, it gets better. Here's the squadron:

Biggs + R2F3 + Stealth Device

Kyle Katarn + predator + TLT + Jan Ors

Esege Tuketu + Recon Specialist + TLT

Biggs has 4 dice, 2 focus tokens and an evade token, so is in essence turtled like PTL soontir. The list does not have a huge damage output and manouvers like a herd of fat cows, but good luck shooting it down.

I think you should title Kyle instead of Predator, you need a bank of focus tokens to start with, as the list is vulnerable to bumping. It looks like a lot of fun. Annoying, but fun.

That R2-F3 is it? Droid. The one that's an action to add an agility. Seems like a waste but since it's an 'action' header card that doesn't take the EPT slot you can use it and PtL another normal action out. I could see some sort of gimmick build where you put him on Biggs with a stealth device and feed him an evade with Kyle focus battery hand off with a conversion to evade via Jan Ors crew, and a Squad Leader Experimental Interface Wedge that feeds Biggs a focus haha. Now you have Biggs at 4/5 agility with both a focus and evade token. XD

Oh, it gets better. Here's the squadron:

Biggs + R2F3 + Stealth Device

Kyle Katarn + predator + TLT + Jan Ors

Esege Tuketu + Recon Specialist + TLT

Biggs has 4 dice, 2 focus tokens and an evade token, so is in essence turtled like PTL soontir. The list does not have a huge damage output and manouvers like a herd of fat cows, but good luck shooting it down.

I think you should title Kyle instead of Predator, you need a bank of focus tokens to start with, as the list is vulnerable to bumping. It looks like a lot of fun. Annoying, but fun.

With all those focus tokens, would it be a good idea to swap R2-F2 for R5-P9?

I think you lose the whole fun gimmick of the list, that is a 4 agility x-wing with an evade. (That happens to be Biggs)