Do you think if FFG made a Star Trek space battle game, that it would be better as X-Wing style, or as Armada Style? Or something new altogether?

I used to want an X-Wing style game more, but since playing Armada more I'm starting to think that Armada would be a better fit. My ONLY problem would be smaller highly maneuverable ships like Birds of Prey. They seem almost too small for the Armada bases. Perhaps they coudl do a smaller square type base for some of the more unique ships of Star Trek.

Would you want the two games to be compatible? I would love the idea of being able to take the Enterprise vs a Star Destroyer in a game. And yes, I'd put aside all of the arguments about Lasers vs Phasers, beaming torpedoes onto someone's bridge, etc. Just slug it out in a virtual world of suspended disbelief.

Best part is we'd get FFG's amazing sculpts for Star Trek ships! And a proper sliding scale to boot!

/Fanboymode.

They'd make Star Trek cool

If I had the choice... I'd rather see something Armada scale. X-Wing scale just never made sense to me. It's pretty clear that Wizkids wanted to capitalize on the Flightpath's popularity and shoehorned it into a IP they already had.

If it were me. I'd make things like the Enterprise D about the same size as the ISD. The D was right around 650m long, on the small size you have the Defiant at 150ish and a Klingon Bird of Prey at 110m

The small ships would fit pretty well on small base at that size.

Star Trek ships tend to be a bit more nimble than Star Wars ships, but you could keep the Armada maneuver tool, just give them more clicks.

The problem would be the Borg, a Cube is freaking huge and wouldn't fit. But then again having the Borg in Attack Wing was clearly a marketing ploy in the first place...

I'd comment more but I'm too busy thinking of all the cool possibilities

Armada style would be preferable -- I want Star Fleet Battles with pre-painted miniatures.

A decent Star Trek RPG would be welcome, too. There's a whole "exploration" theme in Star Trek that I think is underrepresented in its games.

I want Star Fleet Battles with pre-painted miniatures.

Quite possibly one of the best video games ever made was Starfleet Command. I loved that game because it seemed to capture the best of both turn based and real time games. You had time to think but it had the action of real time combat

A decent Star Trek RPG would be welcome, too.

It's always amazed me that there hasn't been a good one. There's so much potential for a good ST RPG, that you'd think someone would do one. But maybe the license is an issue.

Well, first I would want them to buy the Fleet Captains game. Put some FFG quality behind that good game despite Wizkids, and boom. Instant winner.

That said, proably Armada style would be best. The Flightpath system would be weird, as 90% of the ships should have primary weapon turrets.

If I had the choice... I'd rather see something Armada scale. X-Wing scale just never made sense to me. It's pretty clear that Wizkids wanted to capitalize on the Flightpath's popularity and shoehorned it into a IP they already had.

If it were me. I'd make things like the Enterprise D about the same size as the ISD. The D was right around 650m long, on the small size you have the Defiant at 150ish and a Klingon Bird of Prey at 110m

The small ships would fit pretty well on small base at that size.

Star Trek ships tend to be a bit more nimble than Star Wars ships, but you could keep the Armada maneuver tool, just give them more clicks.

The problem would be the Borg, a Cube is freaking huge and wouldn't fit. But then again having the Borg in Attack Wing was clearly a marketing ploy in the first place...

I think you are kinda on the money here.

I woudl make the Enterprise D a little bit smaller than the Victory, but similar. Probably about the same total mass but it would feel smaller because of the dish being most of it's mass, and the nacels being smaller. Definetely that medium sized base though.

And I would totally allow a borg cube - but it would play incredibly differently. For starters, it wouldn't be player controlled. It would be an objective, which follows AI and attacks ALL players. You can play co-op to kill it, or PVP to see who does MORE damage to it, whoever does the most damage to it wins. You might be also allow a player to control it for multiplayer games, but this would simply be a "fun" variant and not tournament legal. I would however throw in some upgrade cards in the borg cube package so you still want to buy it - and maybe a small ship also - perhaps a battle damaged Nebula class or something.

Defiant might have to be treated as a squadron, similar to how the Millenium falcon and Slave-1 are squadrons in Armada. I wouldn't call them Squadrons in Star Trek though, I'd call them attack craft or something.

Oh - and considering the Federation has by FAR the most recognizable ships - why not make a starter box that is ONLY Federation ships? Galaxy, Constitution, Miranda, and Oberth. Base set will be mirror matches, designed to represent "Training Simulators" - Klingon and Romulan ships could be in the form of expansions that would launch alongside the base set.

This would allow for a new player to dive right into the game and be able to combine all of his/her ships to have a full (Or near full) federation build.

I think i'd rather see a full blown star trek captain RPG which would scale + use miniatures.

Defiant might have to be treated as a squadron, similar to how the Millenium falcon and Slave-1 are squadrons in Armada. I wouldn't call them Squadrons in Star Trek though, I'd call them attack craft or something.

The Defiant is the same size as CR-90 though, so I would think it would be more suited on a small base.

The biggest problem I see with the game would be balance. The Defiant is a state of the art battleship while e.g. the Galaxy 4x larger is more outdated, and not a combat craft.

I'd say Armada style, the Armada system seems much more thematic than a flight path system for Star Trek. What with there being engineering teams, the ability to stop, re-routing shields etc.

Plus, the sliding scale would let the models more accurately represent differences in ship size, so it'd look quite nice, always a plus.

I think Wizkids made two massive mistakes with Attack Wing. The didn't keep the ships in scale, and they used the flightpath system. For a dogfighting type game the flightpath system works reasonably well, which attributes the success of X-wing. But for large ship combat, a completely different mechanic is required. I'm not sure the Armada system is quite the right fit either, but it's likely to be a much better starting point.

The two differences between Star Trek and Star Wars big ships is the way they move. The ST ships do seem more agile for their size, and this should be reflected adequately. They don't seem to swing their rear end around as much and the Armada movement tool seems to use this as a basis. There's absolutely no reason why, if FFG got a licence to create a new game, that they couldn't use a different game design entirely. And I think if it did eventuate, then a new system would be the best option instead of trying to emulate an Armada style game.

Crucial elements should include: key characters, engineering teams repairing and rerouting shields and power etc, boarding actions by beaming combat teams onto enemy ships, and power management. Kirk was always screaming at Scotty for more power. We didn't see too many "fighters" in Star Trek, so I don't think there should be much of a presence in a new game. Most of the combat was ship-to-ship.

I do like the idea of the Borg being an AI controlled game element. That's got some merit. Cloaked ships could get interesting and I think handling of that should be completely different to the way X-wing does it. You can still shoot at a TIE Phantom that's cloaked, but you shouldn't be able see a Trek ship when it's cloaked, let alone shoot it.

Still, it's not likely to happen. Which is a shame because FFG would make an awesome game of it no matter what the design. They just know how to do things right.

Honestly, I don't think the ST setting is good enough to warrant interest, so regardless of rules quality it's not a game I would ever buy into.

Star trek should be what armada is, imagine replaying wolf 359 or the assault on cardasia during the war with the dominion.

I think Trek would do well to use X-Wing Epic as its starting point. Not quite the same- the average Trek ships would have to be roughly twice as maneuverable as the Epic maneuver tool allows. But ships like the Defiant or the Peregrine fighter would use the Large base combat of X-Wing.

I think I'd also try and break the game into eras, with the Constitution class being one era, the Ambassador class being another, and the Sovereign being another. Each era should cost more points to field (much more powerful) ships, but earlier eras could pay points to retrofit their ships into being at least somewhat combat effective in the later era.

This would actually help keep things at least a bit canon, as Trek ship designs tended to have an incredible service life, with lots of updates.

The Klingon Bird of Prey was in service for the entire Trek run, I think. But it never was OP or obsolete- because regular upgrades.

Also: cloaking would have to be a major, day 1 mechanic. But also very different from how X-Wing does it.

Not sure exactly when the Klingon Bird of Prey entered service but I know the Wrath of Khan novelization refers to the Reliant, which was a Miranda class variant, as elderly and the Mirandas were still in use 90 years later. Also I'm not sure if there were any still in service in the Klingon military fleet but I believe I read somewhere that in the late 24th century some of the private fleets of Klingon houses were still using updated versions of ship classes used in the mid 22nd century. Though honestly in the Legends continuity Star Wars had ship classes that were in service much, much longer.

I want Star Fleet Battles with pre-painted miniatures.

Quite possibly one of the best video games ever made was Starfleet Command. I loved that game because it seemed to capture the best of both turn based and real time games. You had time to think but it had the action of real time combat

A decent Star Trek RPG would be welcome, too.

It's always amazed me that there hasn't been a good one. There's so much potential for a good ST RPG, that you'd think someone would do one. But maybe the license is an issue.

There have been two that I loved at different points in time - the FASA one from the 80's (loved that as a kid) and then in the late 90's the Last Unicorn game. Fun times. Makes me feel old

We didn't see too many "fighters" in Star Trek, so I don't think there should be much of a presence in a new game. Most of the combat was ship-to-ship.

I'd be ok with not including fighters in the base game or with wave 1, but they should be considered eventually. There are several KEY fighter-sized ships that woudl fit into the game very well: Shuttlecraft, Runabouts, The Maquis, the Delta Flyer, and even The Defiant, which is more of a Millenium Falcon type fighter, so larger ship but still functioning in a fighter type role. I think small ships should function differently than large ships, but perhaps not the same as Squadrons in Armada. They could be an altogether new mechanic, or they could funtion with the same basic rules as lareg ships, but instead have a smaller custom base, and simply be more maneuverable.

Also: cloaking would have to be a major, day 1 mechanic. But also very different from how X-Wing does it.

I like the principle of how Fleet Captains handled cloaking. When you cloak, you lay down 3 "cloak" tokens at your current position. When you move, you move all three of them in different directions. One of them is marked underneath as the real ship, while the other two are marked as "Cloak" underneath. Your opponent doesn't know which of the 3 is actually your ship and which of the 3 is a cloaked "echo". When you decloak, you replace the token with your ship, and pick up the ghost cloak tokens.

There were federation fighters but they sucked hard, it was more a case of it's cheaper and faster to make fighters than it is to make a whole starship.

You see them in the best of both worlds where picard becomes locutus, and in later episodes of DS9.

But yeah wouldn't have a major part in the game, but you could include runabouts and ferengi ships.

There were federation fighters but they sucked hard, it was more a case of it's cheaper and faster to make fighters than it is to make a whole starship.

You see them in the best of both worlds where picard becomes locutus, and in later episodes of DS9.

But yeah wouldn't have a major part in the game, but you could include runabouts and ferengi ships.

Peregrine fighters. 2 Pulse phasers and a photon torpedo on a warp capable hovercar pretty much

http://en.memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Federation_attack_fighter

I wish FFG had gotten the license for Star Trek. At the time when both X-Wing and Attack Wing came out I was looking at both of them since they were - at their core - the same game system. I did research on both of them and attended some games and tournaments (as a spectator) prior to investing in either one. Two things that turned me off completely from Attack Wing were the horrible miniatures compared to X-Wing, and the whole "Prize Ship" thing at tournaments.

I had played MechWarrior Clix when it came out and the whole 'prize model' thing totally ruined it for me. All it became was people winning the prizes then sweeping tournaments to get more of them to sell on Ebay as most of the prize models were woefully overpowered. I wasn't going to get suckered into that mess again with Attack Wing. Also I was dutifully impressed with FFGs overall quality of design and production of X-Wing.

IMO I think a Star Trek game would need to be mix of Epic X-Wing and Armada. As pointed out in previous posts, ships in Star Trek don't move as ponderously as a Star Destroyer but they do have to worry about energy allocation. The scale would be more suitable to Armada, or close to it. And I think maneuvering would be more along the lines of X-Wing.

It's an interesting idea think about.

I agree with others: I'd like to see an entirely new game developed around the IP, but Armada is much closer than X-wing. Star Trek battles should have the feel of naval engagements, rather than the WWII dogfights X-wing more-or-less mimics.

Honestly, I don't think the ST setting is good enough to warrant interest, so regardless of rules quality it's not a game I would ever buy into.

Then, quite seriously, why did you bother to reply?

Well, you made the catastrophic mistake of using question marks in your OP.

I want Star Fleet Battles with pre-painted miniatures.

Quite possibly one of the best video games ever made was Starfleet Command. I loved that game because it seemed to capture the best of both turn based and real time games. You had time to think but it had the action of real time combat

A decent Star Trek RPG would be welcome, too.

It's always amazed me that there hasn't been a good one. There's so much potential for a good ST RPG, that you'd think someone would do one. But maybe the license is an issue.

There have been two that I loved at different points in time - the FASA one from the 80's (loved that as a kid) and then in the late 90's the Last Unicorn game. Fun times. Makes me feel old

I played every official Star Trek RPG there was along with all the Star Fleet Universe games and still have at least some of my books for each. In fact the FASA Trek was my second rpg after WEG's Star Wars. Which is odd because I saw Star Trek long before Star Wars. (I literally saw the Wrath of Khan before I saw my first house while I didn't see the OT until I was three.)