This has so many potential uses, although it does happen after defense tokens are spent which means the no redirect crit only works on additional attacks. However there's discard token potential and possibly even better reduce speed. Catch an mc80 going speed 1 with that and now its defenseless. Probably one of the top 3 new revealed cards from this wave in both power and balance to other cards.

Tis good that the MC30c dosnt have an ion slot. Leading shots? Rofl.

Then again, OE is a thing...

I still think ACM is better for Screed builds. 2 damage vs 1 damage with an effect which doesn't matter once you're dead.

I still think ACM is better for Screed builds. 2 damage vs 1 damage with an effect which doesn't matter once you're dead.

That is long term thinking. I like to think along the lines of "If that crit weakens them, they could die in this one attack. . .", which is possible when you have crits that drop entire shield zones and other nasty effects

I thought this topic was going to compare Dodonna's Pride and APT. I am surprised that we now have two cards with similar effects but one cost a point more and has requires cancellation of all other attack dice.

Mostly because of the Difference in Range.

But the fact its also Unique as a Title is another balancing point...

I still think ACM is better for Screed builds. 2 damage vs 1 damage with an effect which doesn't matter once you're dead.

The difference is direct shield bypass for one face up or 1 adjacent sides that may have shields

I still think ACM is better for Screed builds. 2 damage vs 1 damage with an effect which doesn't matter once you're dead.

That is long term thinking. I like to think along the lines of "If that crit weakens them, they could die in this one attack. . .", which is possible when you have crits that drop entire shield zones and other nasty effects

I'm not sure I agree, at least for imperial fleets featuring Screed. I'm not sure I disagree, either.

At least for heavily-shielded targets (MC-80, AFs, now MC-30s), +2 damage is nice, but damage taken to a shield is, by definition, not damage to the ship's hull. The problem is amplified if the defender has advanced projectors, and is spacing that damage out between multiple hull-zones (instead of you drilling through the shields to the hull). An assault MC-80 can sport advanced projectors and advanced shielding. If coupled with a repair dial and token, that's four shields coming back each turn (on top of fifteen to start with). Even with ACM's knocking off an extra two shields each turn, it will be a chore trying to chew through those shields to get to the hull.

For two points less, it seems to me that the chance of putting a critical damage directly on the opponent's hull is worth at least considering changing out ACMs. With Screed, that's basically a guarantee once per round (barring an unfortunate Mon Mothma re-roll), and you have the chance of doing it twice per round if you can set-up a double-arc shot. An imperial fleet with Screed, two Raider Is with APTs and two Glad Is with APTs runs just under 250 points (246), but that's eight chances each turn to peg an opponent with a face-up damage card, and you can guarantee four face-up cards per round with Screed (again, barring an unfortunate Mon Mothma re-roll). Add 16 points of Ordnance Experts, and another 10 for Demolisher, and you have four ships with excellent chances to peg one or more targets with eight face-up damage cards per round, regardless of shields... plus just under 130 points left to spend on an ISD, two more Glads, extra goodies, etc.

The alternative is to pay slightly more to have ACMs, and try to win the war through attrition by doing more overall damage (in an attempt to out-pace shield regeneration). Those same four ships still have the same odds of rolling a crit, so there's a potential for sixteen bonus damage (four guaranteed ACMs with Screed, barring MM; four more chances at ACMs if there's a double-arc shot that rolls a crit). Even among four targets, that's a significant amount of damage in a single round.

The problem, of course, is the durability of these ships, and whether they'll be able to stand up against sustained fire from an MC-30, MC-80, or AFII long enough for the ACMs to vaporize shields and damage the hull. Given how Glads tend to fare against AFIIs in prolonged combat (where their evade is useless), I can only imagine that dealing with the MCs will be even more difficult. Thus, it seems it would benefit me far more to end the engagement as soon as possible by getting quick damage on the hull. The ship is that much closer to destruction, and hull damage costs more engineering to remove, plus each hull damage removed means two less shields are being regenerated. This, plus the nastiness of the crit effect itself (lose shields, no restoring shields, bonus damage, discard your command dial or take damage, etc.), seems the easiest and quickest way to end the fight.

That's my initial impression, at any rate. Again, if this cost more than ACMs, or even the same price, I would probably feel differently. But if I can get faster kills and pay less... that seems hard to pass up.

APTs are awesome. When more people start rolling dice they are going to see your point. ACM are great as well but the dice and effects don't lie. Was easy to stop trying to squeeze 13 points for EL when for so many points less you get these bad boys with screed. Screed is still the man in my opinion. Just can't justify any other admiral for any radon except to mix it up. Ok I gain hull with Motti, how about the best offensive becoming the best defensive. With the wedges you need to make those passes count and the glads and raiders will weeken them for the VSDs at both short range and long once they arrive. Funnel the damaged ship toward the VSDs with the squadrons and bombers. Once the ships hit the VSDs the Glads and Raiders and Squadrons pushing them their wil have the rear flank on the pass. This of course is obviously one man humble opinion.

But you have +1 for APT all day long ...in fact I'm going to call the All Day Torpedoes instead of APT.

ADT--my #1 home security seystem.

Bugger and I thought Mr Corvette had returned...

The real beauty is they cost only 5 points. You can stick them on 3 ships for a bargain 15 points. ACM on those same ships cost 21. Not a huge diff, but enough to matter.

My new Dodonna list is this:

MC80, Dodonna, XX9s

MC30, APTs

MC30, APTs

I had APT's on Demolisher last night (yes I played Imperials. .) and it was amazing! In one of my games we played Precision Strike. . . Let me tell you, when you roll 4 damage and they have a brace, I had compunction about spending a hit to flip a card and then APT's. . . In the end I ended up with 10 Victory Tokens. . . I tabled my foe as well so a great 550 win for me!

Bugger and I thought Mr Corvette had returned...

Me too.

But hope springs eternal...

I'm playing around with a list containing 2 mc30s with APT, a Dodonas pride, and 3 generic CR90 missiles with engineers. Dodona as the top guy.

the ships are so fragile, fast and deal so much damage strait to the hull the game is played out it very quickly one way or the other.

I'm learning this list to see if I can consistently win, as fast lists would play well in competitions ( giving you plenty of rest and a potential high margin of victory).

So far I've discovered, first player is best, the MC30s are best played as an anvil/ trap, using activation in the same way as you do for Yavaris B wings. With the CR90 missiles being the hammer....

If you have first player And the other guy has four our less ships and you've worked you MC 30 trap (using your activations to sculp the board) you should be able to get three MC30 black range activations in a big ships face before it activates....including up to:six APT chances, six MC30 arcs ( three side,three front) and three Rams. if it's got anything left after that work it over with CR90 missiles or if your second MC30 was left on the board you should get rear arc shoot on as he activates passed you......

I'm playing around with a list containing 2 mc30s with APT, a Dodonas pride, and 3 generic CR90 missiles with engineers. Dodona as the top guy.

the ships are so fragile, fast and deal so much damage strait to the hull the game is played out it very quickly one way or the other.

I'm learning this list to see if I can consistently win, as fast lists would play well in competitions ( giving you plenty of rest and a potential high margin of victory).

So far I've discovered, first player is best, the MC30s are best played as an anvil/ trap, using activation in the same way as you do for Yavaris B wings. With the CR90 missiles being the hammer....

If you have first player And the other guy has four our less ships and you've worked you MC 30 trap (using your activations to sculp the board) you should be able to get three MC30 black range activations in a big ships face before it activates....including up to:six APT chances, six MC30 arcs ( three side,three front) and three Rams. if it's got anything left after that work it over with CR90 missiles or if your second MC30 was left on the board you should get rear arc shoot on as he activates passed you......

I'm playing around with a list containing 2 mc30s with APT, a Dodonas pride, and 3 generic CR90 missiles with engineers. Dodona as the top guy.

the ships are so fragile, fast and deal so much damage strait to the hull the game is played out it very quickly one way or the other.

I'm learning this list to see if I can consistently win, as fast lists would play well in competitions ( giving you plenty of rest and a potential high margin of victory).

So far I've discovered, first player is best, the MC30s are best played as an anvil/ trap, using activation in the same way as you do for Yavaris B wings. With the CR90 missiles being the hammer....

If you have first player And the other guy has four our less ships and you've worked you MC 30 trap (using your activations to sculp the board) you should be able to get three MC30 black range activations in a big ships face before it activates....including up to:six APT chances, six MC30 arcs ( three side,three front) and three Rams. if it's got anything left after that work it over with CR90 missiles or if your second MC30 was left on the board you should get rear arc shoot on as he activates passed you......

Extremely ambitious but honestly. . . This scares me if played right. ..

My favorite kind of list. You've made me reconsider Dodonna

APT might be the first card in Armada I think is overpowered, mostly because of its price. I've lost two ships to the crit it generates, either because it fouled my shields or flipped structural damage and I couldn't survive. I can't believe these things are only five points.

APT's served my demolisher very well today. Crit effects did some seriously bad things to the ships being hit. Loss of command tokens / shield did a lot of good that 2 more wrap around damage may not have. I still love me some ACM's but APT's are a very solid card especially on the Large ships, slipping past contains.

I'm playing around with a list containing 2 mc30s with APT, a Dodonas pride, and 3 generic CR90 missiles with engineers. Dodona as the top guy.

the ships are so fragile, fast and deal so much damage strait to the hull the game is played out it very quickly one way or the other.

I'm learning this list to see if I can consistently win, as fast lists would play well in competitions ( giving you plenty of rest and a potential high margin of victory).

So far I've discovered, first player is best, the MC30s are best played as an anvil/ trap, using activation in the same way as you do for Yavaris B wings. With the CR90 missiles being the hammer....

If you have first player And the other guy has four our less ships and you've worked you MC 30 trap (using your activations to sculp the board) you should be able to get three MC30 black range activations in a big ships face before it activates....including up to:six APT chances, six MC30 arcs ( three side,three front) and three Rams. if it's got anything left after that work it over with CR90 missiles or if your second MC30 was left on the board you should get rear arc shoot on as he activates passed you......

Extremely ambitious but honestly. . . This scares me if played right. ..

My favorite kind of list. You've made me reconsider Dodonna

I played the two titled MC30s with APT and ordinance experts and title cards. CR90b engine tec, CR90b Dodonna Pride. Leading shots, doddona on one MC30. a singly Y wing a and a five point bid.

Got fist player and picked hyperspace assault. He was playing glad (the shoot move shoot move version) vic 2 (with two extra dice and all the trimmings) raider and boba fett.

Round two He hyper spaced in his vic right into my pack ( mc 30s in from, CR90 right to one side and pride a bit ( out of range ) to the other side) I activated and double shotted with one MC30, left him with no front and side shields, a crit and two hits) he activated, full front arc with 2 extra blue, into an MC30 , rolled very well, downed two shield facings and gave me 3 damage, shot the CR90 it survived with 1 hull left.i activated the wounded CR90, took the vics last shields away and ran away at high speed ( this guy just kept running for the rest of the game, speed 5 all the way). He activated his glad ( to far to do any damage)second MC30, demolished the VIC and flew throught the remains at speed three to set up on the glad. His raider sped in setting up for next round, Pride came in to set up a first strike on the glad.

Round three, pride activated and put a nasty crit on the Glad then sped off out of harms way, Glad activated Long front shoot on wounded MC30, then in for a black side with assault concussion, to kill my wounded MC30 ( glass cannon my ass it took a full front arc from a full load VIC then a front and side from a fully loaded glad ( those title cards work...). I'd set the second MC30 as a Trap, so activated a full side arc into the Glad delivering 9damage + APT crit and an accuracy to knock out the brace ( glad went boom...who needs a double arc). All that was left was the raider and the fat lady......

What I've learnt is that the MC30s are even better than I thought.... They out fight Glads..... can stand up to a full star destroy front arc ( 8 dice) in the face, can kill a VIC with a side arc and two front arc shoots ( fine if you have a pair or activate first and have more ships, two allow a last first activation sequence) they are very fast and manoeuvre well for redeployment ( very important for setting you traps). Doddona pride works well with them, i may change out the last CR90 and y wing for a neb b of some flavour.........

I played a game with Dodonna Saturday. Two MC30s with APT, Dodonna's Pride, Yavaris with Scurrgs, and then Luke. I played an Ackbar list of a MKII, an MC30, and Home One. I went first and chose Advanced Gunnery. I figured learning to beat that objective could be handy. He chose Home One, and I chose an MC30.

I set my MC30s to swing out and come at the front of the conga line, my Yavris to dive right to the middle, and my Dodonna's Pride to aim for the MC80 itself, but he moved his MC30 to intercept, so that became my target. On turn two I activated first, and used the Veteran Captain on Dodanna's Pride to activate Luke. Luke got a hit/crit, and I managed to get a Structural Damage, and the MC30 already had three cards. One crit from the Pride and the MC30 was down. He then one-shotted Dodonna's pride with his Home One, but totally worth it.

The next couple turns were a slug fest. We both rolled really hot, and both lost our objective ships. It was very intense and fun. I think Dodonna is still very relevant in Wave 2.

I don't think any Commander is irrelevant currently. This game is well balanced.