I would like the community input on this.

To anyone who has played using/against someone using the dice app or if you have ran an event where someone used it.

Has anyone ran into any "strange" things happening?

I'll give an example.

My last tournament I played the final round and my opponent was using the app, he was Imp with no fighters and I had B-wings. During the game he attacked the B-wings and only had the 1 blue dice but it never missed, ever. He won due to B-wing points. (I explained this a bit bad but over the 6 game turns everytime he shot at the B-wings it was always a hit, should have missed at least once)

The other strange thing was a B-wing was inbetween the 1 and 2 on the dial so when it took damage we rolled to see if it died, he asked me what I wanted so I said evens it lives odds it's dead. Well he changed that real quick to evens it's dead. Seemed strange but whatever. App came up a 4 :/

Also he mentioned that at a regional event they made him stop using the app due to complaints. (I also failed to mention that I offered him some dice to use as I have 3 sets and he declined)

Anyway, sorry for the rambling, my question is would or do you like the app being used? I know it's official but apps can be tampered with plus it's not the same as rolling dice (hitting the table, each other, ect).

I am worried with the Sullest event coming up that there may be some unfair advantages going on. I am going to talk to the TO about it but what do you think?

Thanks.

Don't the rules state that if your opponent requests it, you have to stop using the app?

The odds of rolling 10 hits (which he would need to splash two B-wings) in a row (which I'm assuming from your "never missed, ever" statement) with a blue dice are slightly worse than 1 in 1000. Far from impossible, but suspicious enough that I may have asked the TO to check the app. And though I doubt there's anything wrong with FFG's app, in a tournament environment I would always insist that both players use the same RNG - whether it's dice, an app, cards or any other randomizer.

The app on an iOS device can not be hacked or altered, It is the app certified by FFG. On Android the app can be hacked and altered.

I would not approve of a computer dice app in a tourney unless all devices and software for all games were provided by the venue. I would especially not approve if a player wanted to use the app but then did not also allow me to use his app on his device. He might as well write "cheater" on his forehead.

I'm a big fan of one set of dice between both players and "rolled" using a dice tower.

The odds of rolling 10 hits (which he would need to splash two B-wings) in a row (which I'm assuming from your "never missed, ever" statement) with a blue dice are slightly worse than 1 in 1000. Far from impossible, but suspicious enough that I may have asked the TO to check the app. And though I doubt there's anything wrong with FFG's app, in a tournament environment I would always insist that both players use the same RNG - whether it's dice, an app, cards or any other randomizer.

The problem likely isn't FFG's app, but the possibility that it may have been altered.

The app on an iOS device can not be hacked or altered, It is the app certified by FFG. On Android the app can be hacked and altered.

I would lend them my dice or tell them to **** off.

I can't stand mobile phone dice rollers. If you can't roll 6 dice on a 6x3 surface without hitting anything or having the dice land on the floor, then you should be playing collectible card games.

This must be an American thing right, I have never heard of anything as ridiculous as rolling dice on a phone haha.

The odds of rolling 10 hits (which he would need to splash two B-wings) in a row (which I'm assuming from your "never missed, ever" statement) with a blue dice are slightly worse than 1 in 1000. Far from impossible, but suspicious enough that I may have asked the TO to check the app. And though I doubt there's anything wrong with FFG's app, in a tournament environment I would always insist that both players use the same RNG - whether it's dice, an app, cards or any other randomizer.

The problem likely isn't FFG's app, but the possibility that it may have been altered.

I got that - just saying that, whether or not there's suspicion of hacking (say, even if the person downloaded the app from the iOS app store right in front of you), I'd still insist that both players use it.

I'm a software developer (keep in mind I've never done mobile development) and the Randomize key word in code is not actually random. You have to do a bunch of other crazy stuff to make it actually be random. I would never trust an app the "claims" to be random.

You constantly get things like the situation you are explaining here.

Not trying to get banned or anything, but it would be fiendishly clever of them to make the app "seem" better. Like maybe 53% chance over 50, etc. I don't mean to offend techies or anything, but I really hate waiting for people to do things on their phone/tablet for gaming. Whether that's keeping track of army lists, damage, or dice rolling, if I have to stop and wait for you to pull it back up or plug it in because it's dying then that's no good. Warmachine at times has a similar problem thanks to their official list building and in game app. I use it for list building all the time, but never in an actual game.

The rule in X-wing is, if one uses the Official Dice app, then your opponent can demand that you both use his app.
If the oppo doesnt want you touching his phone, dice it is then.

Guess its the same with Armada, and all other FFG games?

Dice apps are not random, they are a mathematical equation, producing a result based solely on the probability of each result. That, in my opinion, is not random.

I do find dice towers to be a bit overblown. If it were possible to learn to sling dice to a desired face, Craps would be listed as a game of skill. If it really seems like someone is trying to cheat rolls, a dice cup takes care of that, and is easier to have on hand or improvise.

By cheat rolls, I am referring to the ever so obvious, slow palm roll.

I'm a software developer (keep in mind I've never done mobile development) and the Randomize key word in code is not actually random. You have to do a bunch of other crazy stuff to make it actually be random. I would never trust an app the "claims" to be random.

In what way are randomize key words in code not actually random? What algorithm do they use that would be useful to a person who had not altered the code?

Personally, I think an app would take away from the experience, but I would not complain too much about one being used or force someone to stop using their app. Also, if they spent their time hacking an app to win a game of plastic spaceships, they probably need the win more than I do. I've got a life.

Dice apps are not random, they are a mathematical equation, producing a result based solely on the probability of each result. That, in my opinion, is not random.

I really am curious about this.

Why would producing a result solely on the probability of each result not be random? Don't our octahedrons also produce a result that is purely based on the p=0.125 chance that any given side will appear faced up?

Dice apps are not random, they are a mathematical equation, producing a result based solely on the probability of each result. That, in my opinion, is not random.

I really am curious about this.

Why would producing a result solely on the probability of each result not be random? Don't our octahedrons also produce a result that is purely based on the p=0.125 chance that any given side will appear faced up?

Actually, no. Unless rigorous effort is made during quality control to ensure there are no air bubbles, and the symbols aren't engraved, dice don't actually show each face evenly. Casino dice don't have this problem, but they're also $30 for 6 dice that you have to be pretty gentle with.

There's also the issue of players trying to exert some degree of control over the dice- Not a problem in Craps because of how dice need to be rolled, but on a small tabletop the tricks are more viable.

Electronic randomization, on the other hand, is kind of weird, but suffice it to say, it's trickier than you'd think.

In the end, a lot of players are more suspicious of a dice app being hacked than regular dice being manipulated because you can always demand dice be shared or call over a judge if a player is rolling suspiciously, but checking a dice app can be a hassle, I imagine.

Dice are maths.

Dice are maths.

Dice are Chaos, tiny imperfections in the dice, the surface, the roller's hand, air pressure, humidity & temperature all contribute to the randomness of the roll.

Dice Apps are maths.

I would not approve of a computer dice app in a tourney unless all devices and software for all games were provided by the venue. I would especially not approve if a player wanted to use the app but then did not also allow me to use his app on his device. He might as well write "cheater" on his forehead.

I'm a big fan of one set of dice between both players and "rolled" using a dice tower.

Agreed on all of that except sharing dice, no one rolls my dice, bad luck to share dice. If a TO want's to check they're not weighted that's fine. It's all old D&D mumbo jumbo, but I've never liked sharing them. I've even gone out and purchased a set or two for my friends so we each had our own set if they were new to the game.

Dice apps are not random, they are a mathematical equation, producing a result based solely on the probability of each result. That, in my opinion, is not random.

I do find dice towers to be a bit overblown. If it were possible to learn to sling dice to a desired face, Craps would be listed as a game of skill. If it really seems like someone is trying to cheat rolls, a dice cup takes care of that, and is easier to have on hand or improvise.

By cheat rolls, I am referring to the ever so obvious, slow palm roll.

The thing with the tower is it is easy to drop a single dice in the thing. Easy to make sure dice aren't flung all over the table. It speeds things up since you pick up the dice and put them in the tower. Cocked dice are significantly reduced with regards to dice rolling up against scenery or the bases of models. Dice end up on the floor a lot less.

It isn't just a eliminate the "slow palm roll" or other attempts at chicanery (which somehow you're the unfun one for pointing out are not acceptable) but just cleans up the whole process.

I personally also find the tower impersonal when the dice don't roll my way.

Not to put this thread back on track or anything, but yes. I have seen some strange rolls on my FFG dice app. But only in Armada. I played a whole campaign in IA and the dice app appeared to perform fair. Although it seemed like the white defense dice landed more on dodge than they should, but not enough that anyone mentioned it (I also may be have over sensitive to it since it was benefiting me). However, in Armada I have noticed that rolls with 1 or 2 dice (esp. blue) tend to be more skewed toward damage. Once I roll 3 or more then the distribution appears to be more even.

And, as I've been typing this I've been rolling 2 blue die on my phone and I would say that it's still holding true. Many damage, several crits, and very few accuracy. I just 4 double damage in a row, then a crit/accuracy. This is all conjecture of course. But I'd like to hear from someone else who has the app and can test with it.

EDIT: So I'm really bored at work and ran 2 simulations of 50 rolls using the app. I realize this is very unscientific, but the results didn't surprise me:

1 Blue

Accuracy Critical Damage

14 15 21

2 Blue

Accuracy Critical Damage

18 20 62

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1agkXxkE1RwYzvcFnJNtULUBtuupDc1gtKTwyFVV8jZs/edit?usp=sharing

The dice app is legal according to Star Wars Armada tournament rules.

So there are only two things you can do if you don't want your opponent to use it....

1. Nothing

2. Like it

BTW...I use it sometimes. I like the dice app. I'm an Android user, and no you cannot use my phone. Tournament rules do not allow for you to decide to use it or force me to use dice or a tower.

That may sound dickish, but I know I don't cheat. If someone accuses me of cheating with a hacked device...I leave it to them and their paranoid machinations to prove it.

FFG seems to agree with my side of this arguement. It's something that has already been hashed out in X-Wing tournaments. Like it or not, the Dice App is legal.

Armada tournament rules only bring up the dice app in one part....and I quote....

"Only official Star Wars: Armada components are legal for use

app must be displayed in full view of both players at all times."

Kaine is either a germaphobe or just incredibly superstitious.

Really, there is a dice App?

Ridiculous.

Come on people, rolling dice is fun!

Which phone has a battery to allow the Dice App to be displayed in full view of all players, at all times for a whole tournament?

If your screen times out do you concede because you have violated this rule?

If your battery dies, do you switch to dice? If so, why not just use the dice?

If your opponent is suspicious of the App, you would really insist on still using it?

Is there any actually good reason to use the App instead of dice?