As for how to play around it, of course there are many ways to do so, but in general without specific squad choices you are still often on the back foot. Yes, just like with the phantom it is possible to hard counter the TLT swarm, but that reduces list diversity where everyone needs to use specific counters in order to beat the big beast.

Yes, specific counters. If you're trying to fight TLTs, you can only choose from TIE Fighters, TIE Advanced, TIE Interceptors, Firesprays, TIE Bombers, Lambdas, TIE Phantoms, TIE Defenders, Decimators, TIE Punishers, X-wings, Y-wings, A-wings, YT-1300s, B-wings, HWKs, E-wings, Headhunters, YT-2400s, K-wings, StarVipers, Scyks, Aggressors, YV-666s, and Kihraxz fighters.

I can seriously think of lists and builds for every ship in the game that I would confidently take against TLT spam. They don't like jousters, because they're not efficient enough. They don't like arc dodgers, because they can't maneuver well. They don't like ordnance, because they're easy to hit. They don't like high-PS ships, action-efficient ships, ships with the sensor slot, ships with boost, or ships with the illicit slot.

It's not like the Phantom, which had one really prominent strategy for countering it. Everything in the game can be built as a TLT counter.

You list every ship in the game, but some of those would have a very difficult time dealing with TLTs.

Only the HWKs and Scyks, imo. The others, I definitely see doing well. Getting Scum Boba into the mix, and woo boy.

As for how to play around it, of course there are many ways to do so, but in general without specific squad choices you are still often on the back foot. Yes, just like with the phantom it is possible to hard counter the TLT swarm, but that reduces list diversity where everyone needs to use specific counters in order to beat the big beast.

Yes, specific counters. If you're trying to fight TLTs, you can only choose from TIE Fighters, TIE Advanced, TIE Interceptors, Firesprays, TIE Bombers, Lambdas, TIE Phantoms, TIE Defenders, Decimators, TIE Punishers, X-wings, Y-wings, A-wings, YT-1300s, B-wings, HWKs, E-wings, Headhunters, YT-2400s, K-wings, StarVipers, Scyks, Aggressors, YV-666s, and Kihraxz fighters.

I can seriously think of lists and builds for every ship in the game that I would confidently take against TLT spam. They don't like jousters, because they're not efficient enough. They don't like arc dodgers, because they can't maneuver well. They don't like ordnance, because they're easy to hit. They don't like high-PS ships, action-efficient ships, ships with the sensor slot, ships with boost, or ships with the illicit slot.

It's not like the Phantom, which had one really prominent strategy for countering it. Everything in the game can be built as a TLT counter.

There is always the hope that the fear of running into a hard counter prevents people from running Tiny Lasers but we didn't really see that happen with the phantom, it still got used (and won) even with PS11 Han running around, for example. At Australian Nationals there were hardly any, maybe 2, 3 if you count Morgan's Jake with 3 Tiny Lasers. Can't wait to see the list distribution for Worlds. Will be very telling. I don't necessarily think the Tiny Laser will have the same adoption rate as Phantoms which were very much "if you can't beat them join them", probably because Tiny Lasers feel pretty tedious to play with and against.

Only the HWKs and Scyks, imo. The others, I definitely see doing well. Getting Scum Boba into the mix, and woo boy.

Roark boosts PS, which can help you pick up an early kill without paying too much for it. Dace doubles ion damage, which can be especially nasty if you've got a Warthog or two in your list. Neither would be my first choice, but they can fit.

Scyks are where I agree with you most: they're fragile and relatively expensive. But I'd run Serissu in the middle of a pack of Headhunters, and if run a cheap generic with Mangler as a flanker in a list otherwise filled with jousters--looking to dive in close and pick up a lucky crit.

Seriously, any ship can be used against TLT spam. Maybe not every pilot, but at least one pilot in every single ship.

Now I really want to take some Scyks against 4 TLT Y-wings. Challenge accepted!

Change is apparently very scary. I wonder what the big boogeyman from Wave 8 will be?

I vote for the tractor beam.

As for how to play around it, of course there are many ways to do so, but in general without specific squad choices you are still often on the back foot. Yes, just like with the phantom it is possible to hard counter the TLT swarm, but that reduces list diversity where everyone needs to use specific counters in order to beat the big beast.

Yes, specific counters. If you're trying to fight TLTs, you can only choose from TIE Fighters, TIE Advanced, TIE Interceptors, Firesprays, TIE Bombers, Lambdas, TIE Phantoms, TIE Defenders, Decimators, TIE Punishers, X-wings, Y-wings, A-wings, YT-1300s, B-wings, HWKs, E-wings, Headhunters, YT-2400s, K-wings, StarVipers, Scyks, Aggressors, YV-666s, and Kihraxz fighters.

You list every ship in the game, but some of those would have a very difficult time dealing with TLTs.

The OP's point was that they are boring, not that they can't be beaten. I agree with that entirely. It is remarkably boring playing against TLT swarm (or even only 3) when you have only 1 or 2 green dice, because all you do is take damage. They put out 8 Damage a turn against low agil ships, which means the YV, K-Wing, Punisher, Decimator, B wing, Firespray, Y-Wing, Bomber, Lambda, X Wing, Y Wing, Falcon (not fat ones), HWK, Viper and Khiraxz have MAX 2 turns to live. Nearly all of those ships will struggle to kill a single Y wing in 2 turns.

But what about the rest of the your ships? Fair question....thing is that most of the ships listed cost more than the single Y you are focussing on. So, unless you take low pilot skills, and stripped down ships, you aren't going to get 4 3 attack dice ships into your own list.

Like the OP I think that the TLT needs some form of restriction - not for tournament level play, but for all us casual players who like taking 1 or 2 agil ships with named pilots and cool stuff!

I beat a 3 TLT Ys (One as a Warthog Stressbot) and TLT Roark with my Triple Slavers (K4 and Damps on each). Rushed him right out the game after making it look like i was going to slow roll him. When we played in the finals, however, he learned quickly how to deal with them and beat me.

Laetin with HLC might be really good against TLT lists. Or he might die after the second shot... Poor Scyks...

Sounds like a campaign against the warthog.

the TLT should never be paired with the BTL-A4 title since you lose a significant amount of shots/targets by doing so.

Stresshog loves the TLT.

I can seriously think of lists and builds for every ship in the game that I would confidently take against TLT spam. They don't like jousters, because they're not efficient enough. They don't like arc dodgers, because they can't maneuver well. They don't like ordnance, because they're easy to hit. They don't like high-PS ships, action-efficient ships, ships with the sensor slot, ships with boost, or ships with the illicit slot.

Making an anti-TLT list is easy. Making an anti-TLT list that's not going to get run over when it meets anything else is somewhat more challenging.

Anyway, after a few test games today I'm reasonably comfortable taking Dash against TLTs. Assuming you don't do what I did and fly in front of the Y-Wings like a moron, you can reasonably control the range and ensure that only a couple of the TLTs have shots. And in the meantime you're HLCing something and your wingman is shooting it and, really, you should win the exchange.

Im just annoyed that I cant run Ruthlessness on my IG's, Ruthlessness feels S&V orientated to me, and a great TLT hoser.

P.S. While where at it, surely rebel captive could be errata'ed For S&V as well seriously they are bounty hunters!!!

sorry, got a little sidetracked, Im all for TLTs as now the format is wide enough that you cant make a list that has a 75% chance of beating everything regardless of play ability (somewhat exaggerating) and I like it.

where the **** were all you cave-dwellers when PWTs were running rampant?

could'a used the QQ back then

where the **** were all you cave-dwellers when PWTs were running rampant?

could'a used the QQ back then

Seriously?

Half the bloody forum has been QQ'ing about PWTs for at least six months now. Where have you been?

where the **** were all you cave-dwellers when PWTs were running rampant?

could'a used the QQ back then

Seriously?

Half the bloody forum has been QQ'ing about PWTs for at least six months now. Where have you been?

QQing about PWTs!

The crying and cancer on this forum is F-ing pathetic.

I can't wait till (if it happens) people complain about ordanance!

You must be new here. People complain about ordnance all the time.

I think paper is totally balanced and fun to play with and against.

However rock is boring and bad design. I don't understand how it went thru playtesting.

- Darth Scissors
________________________________________________

My Fleet: 8< 8< 8< 8< 8< 8< 8< 8<

The crying and cancer on this forum is F-ing pathetic.

Welcome to the forums, I can see you will be a great asset!

I can understand the frustration and tediousness of going up against 4 TLTs but making it a unique card is horrible idea as alone it does not bring enough threaten fat PWTs and high PS arc dodgers. There are some strong lists out there that have little to fear from TLTs. Brobots immediately comes to mind; they have the health and agility to almost completely blunt those TLT shots and in the time it takes for you to eat through their shields they'd probably have taken down 2 TLTs already. The remaining 2 would have little chance of punching through those AT fortified green dice.

The other list is Dual Decis. Despite TLTs being the answer against fat PWTs I think this particular build may be the exception. Admiral Chirenaeu with EU and Pred has the speed and fire power to get right into that range 1 donut hole and compelety decimate those Y-wings and followed up by Oicunn with title who should also be able to bulldoze through them.

where the **** were all you cave-dwellers when PWTs were running rampant?

could'a used the QQ back then

Seriously?

Half the bloody forum has been QQ'ing about PWTs for at least six months now. Where have you been?

Not nearly enough! 1/2 years and 3 complete waves of turret dominance, and two world titles before FFG even admitted there was a problem!

SCREAM MORE. I HATE TURRETS.

where the **** were all you cave-dwellers when PWTs were running rampant?

could'a used the QQ back then

Seriously?

Half the bloody forum has been QQ'ing about PWTs for at least six months now. Where have you been?

Not nearly enough! 1/2 years and 3 complete waves of turret dominance, and two world titles before FFG even admitted there was a problem!

SCREAM MORE. I HATE TURRETS.

Yet Xwing is a game about Star Wars space combat and turrets are featured in all the films. With the Millenium Falcon one shotting TIE Fighters in the first (4th movie)! It's a game get over it.

To be honest, the more FFG hold to their no erratas policy, the more I think it's just the wrong decision to stick with. It really bites them in the ass over time. Yes they've bent that policy recently. But to correct this item, I really want them to just come out and smack it with ban or restrictions or erratas. I agree with many of the OP's points. I think twin laser turrets are bad, and sloppy, design. I've been struggling to muster up the will to play another game but an finding it difficult. I don't want to quit, but I just don't want to bother with these things. Same way I felt with the Phantom.

Funny story while we're on the subject. I still have this funny conspiracy theory that FFG some how got the fire power on the Phantom and the Defender switched, then didn't find out about it till it was too late, so just went with it to cover the mistake, which then threw everything in to chaos for awhile. Imagine what it would have been like if the Defender had the 4 Firepower and the Phantom only had the the 3. The more I think about it the more it makes sense. It would have been a completely different game right now if those stats were somehow switched at birth.

To be honest, the more FFG hold to their no erratas policy, the more I think it's just the wrong decision to stick with. It really bites them in the ass over time. Yes they've bent that policy recently. But to correct this item, I really want them to just come out and smack it with ban or restrictions or erratas. I agree with many of the OP's points. I think twin laser turrets are bad, and sloppy, design. I've been struggling to muster up the will to play another game but an finding it difficult. I don't want to quit, but I just don't want to bother with these things. Same way I felt with the Phantom.

Funny story while we're on the subject. I still have this funny conspiracy theory that FFG some how got the fire power on the Phantom and the Defender switched, then didn't find out about it till it was too late, so just went with it to cover the mistake, which then threw everything in to chaos for awhile. Imagine what it would have been like if the Defender had the 4 Firepower and the Phantom only had the the 3. The more I think about it the more it makes sense. It would have been a completely different game right now if those stats were somehow switched at birth.

I also think the HWK was designed as a large base ship but got shrunk to small base. It would make a lot more sense as a cheap large base, especially when you consider the dial. Much more a Shuttle counterpart.

But the TLT can be worked around, and with greater ease I think than for instance the Phantom Menace.

Just so we're clear guys, I don't think OP was complaining that TLT's are broken or hard to beat. I think he was saying they're boring to use and boring to play against.

Which is a fair opinion, in my opinion.

Well he did call them overpowered and requiring your opponent to do very specific things to counter them.