I've read 9 pages of this thread and come to the following conclusions.

1) This thread is boring and accomplishes nothing. Definitely NPE.

2) I like flying and flying against 4 x Ys with TLT. They're a challenge either way. For me that's a fact.

3) Because of #2 some consider me not a nice person. The phrase I prefer is "rude, crude and socially unacceptable".

4) After 9 pages I had hoped for some concrete examples of Y + TLT counters and not generalizations.

5) I'll need more Tums and Tylenol to read this thread to ths end.

Thanks for your kind attention.

Against a list without/with few turrets it would be an interesting experiment to open with a 4-straight followed by a straight decloak and a 4-k .

I've done that with Shadow Squad pilots with Stygium before and it works ok. The problem is high PS turrets of course.

Honestly, for a counter to TLTs... Red dice.

That's it. Red dice.

make a list that has a lot of red dice in it.

This is because the most green dice they can throw at your red dice is 2.

(Thank you Lingula for the correction earlier).

So, pick your poison for mass red dice. B-wings, obsidian swarm, black squadron with ruthless or calculation. autoceptors. Z-95s. Non turret y-wings.

Just don't bring 2 superevasive ships. It was great in yesterdays meta apparently, I never liked the idea myself. If you really want, you can try corran, flying in shooting up, flying away, recharging shields for a bit, flying in etc... Otherwise yeah, red dice.

Funny story while we're on the subject. I still have this funny conspiracy theory that FFG some how got the fire power on the Phantom and the Defender switched, then didn't find out about it till it was too late, so just went with it to cover the mistake, which then threw everything in to chaos for awhile.

Except the Defender has 4 lasers, and the same attack as every other 4 laser fighter in the game, while the Phantom has 5 lasers.

Yes. And Tractor Beams should have been System upgrades instead of Cannons.

Funny story while we're on the subject. I still have this funny conspiracy theory that FFG some how got the fire power on the Phantom and the Defender switched, then didn't find out about it till it was too late, so just went with it to cover the mistake, which then threw everything in to chaos for awhile.

Except the Defender has 4 lasers, and the same attack as every other 4 laser fighter in the game, while the Phantom has 5 lasers.

Devils advocate mode:

Yeah but amount of lasers doesn't equate firepower.

/Devils Advocate mode.

Honestly I go with the 5 laser, 4 firepower thing too. just wanted to put it out there before someone else does.

T/D should have had the system slot though.

Devils advocate mode:

Yeah but amount of lasers doesn't equate firepower.

/Devils Advocate mode.

Not always, but most of the time, it does.