Instead of complaining about it, I killed one of his ships.

Sound advice for all X-Wing players.

In fact, that particular quote is signature worthy.

Instead of complaining about it, I killed one of his ships.

In the end, I lost,

Well, Naturally.

As regards the tediousness of all of the TLT shots:

I played last night against 2 TLTs and 2 Ion cannons, all with BTL-A4. First round of shooting, he got to attack me 10 times with 4 ships. That was annoying. Han was in range 1, so most of his attacks went at my Miranda.

Instead of complaining about it, I killed one of his ships. Now, he only gets a max of 7 attacks -- But WAIT, I got behind one of his ships, so that one isn't shooting. Then I killed his other TLT. Now 4 attacks, but more likely 0 or 1, because I'm flying Han Solo with Engine Upgrade.

Man, was that boring. Wait, no it wasn't. I had to use my SKILL to prevent ships from shooting me multiple times. In the end, I lost, but it was close - had I remembered to use C-3PO on the primary shot from a Y-wing, instead of saving it for the Ion shot that never came because I was range 3, I would have not taken a crit and been just fine the rest of the game.

Obviously, this is not possible, and complete hokum, as it has already been demonstrated that TLT is OPP. :-)

As regards the tediousness of all of the TLT shots:

I played last night against 2 TLTs and 2 Ion cannons, all with BTL-A4. First round of shooting, he got to attack me 10 times with 4 ships. That was annoying. Han was in range 1, so most of his attacks went at my Miranda.

Instead of complaining about it, I killed one of his ships. Now, he only gets a max of 7 attacks -- But WAIT, I got behind one of his ships, so that one isn't shooting. Then I killed his other TLT. Now 4 attacks, but more likely 0 or 1, because I'm flying Han Solo with Engine Upgrade.

Man, was that boring. Wait, no it wasn't. I had to use my SKILL to prevent ships from shooting me multiple times. In the end, I lost, but it was close - had I remembered to use C-3PO on the primary shot from a Y-wing, instead of saving it for the Ion shot that never came because I was range 3, I would have not taken a crit and been just fine the rest of the game.

Obviously, this is not possible, and complete hokum, as it has already been demonstrated that TLT is OPP. :-)

If they didnt all take title your precious Han wouldve been toast. Just sayin.

Instead of complaining about it, I killed one of his ships.

Sound advice for all X-Wing players.

In fact, that particular quote is signature worthy.

And done...

As regards the tediousness of all of the TLT shots:

I played last night against 2 TLTs and 2 Ion cannons, all with BTL-A4. First round of shooting, he got to attack me 10 times with 4 ships. That was annoying. Han was in range 1, so most of his attacks went at my Miranda.

Instead of complaining about it, I killed one of his ships. Now, he only gets a max of 7 attacks -- But WAIT, I got behind one of his ships, so that one isn't shooting. Then I killed his other TLT. Now 4 attacks, but more likely 0 or 1, because I'm flying Han Solo with Engine Upgrade.

Man, was that boring. Wait, no it wasn't. I had to use my SKILL to prevent ships from shooting me multiple times. In the end, I lost, but it was close - had I remembered to use C-3PO on the primary shot from a Y-wing, instead of saving it for the Ion shot that never came because I was range 3, I would have not taken a crit and been just fine the rest of the game.

Have a rematch against 4 TLTs instead of ions/BTLs and see if things go the same way.

As regards the tediousness of all of the TLT shots:

I played last night against 2 TLTs and 2 Ion cannons, all with BTL-A4. First round of shooting, he got to attack me 10 times with 4 ships. That was annoying. Han was in range 1, so most of his attacks went at my Miranda.

Instead of complaining about it, I killed one of his ships. Now, he only gets a max of 7 attacks -- But WAIT, I got behind one of his ships, so that one isn't shooting. Then I killed his other TLT. Now 4 attacks, but more likely 0 or 1, because I'm flying Han Solo with Engine Upgrade.

Man, was that boring. Wait, no it wasn't. I had to use my SKILL to prevent ships from shooting me multiple times. In the end, I lost, but it was close - had I remembered to use C-3PO on the primary shot from a Y-wing, instead of saving it for the Ion shot that never came because I was range 3, I would have not taken a crit and been just fine the rest of the game.

I get so happy when I see people running BTL-A4 TLTs. If I had a K-wing, I'd be there too.

It is colossal fun, and has the nice side bonus of totally trumping regular TLTs.

I really generally laugh at the people who gets but hurt about 4Y TLT's. I can't tell you how ridiculously easy it is to counter that list. Range 1 out of primary arc. All you have to do. And most people will be flying lists with ships that are higher PS than all 2's. This is like the 4Y's w/ion. It can be annoying to tackle sometimes, but seriously, just focus fire one at a time. It's not that big an issue.

Now, to the dudes who put BTL-A4 upgrades on them. HAHA. That first round will be an absolute doozy to play against. 16 attacks. 16 possible damage. Know the only ship that it's going to demoralize right off the bat? A Decimator (boy that would be fun to watch). Run is fast and hard on 4Y TLT's, you will be happy after that. Take some damage, just don't get in range of all of them at the same time and you are good.

EDIT

Ok I may have a little to add to this. I know I dont have alot of posts here. Not all that new to x wing been playing a little over a year.

So here goes....

I played the scum version of the list(unhinged mechs no title) at a small store tourney a few weeks ago. There were 12 players Ill put up the results of each match the best I can remember.

Round 1

Played against scum boba with 2 tlt y wings.

Won 100-50

Round 2

Played a kinkirk with Ysanne build. He also had redline as a missile boat.

Won 100-50

Round 3

Played a 2 a wing build with poe. Dont remember what poe had on him. The a wings were tycho and jake.

Won 100-0

Round 4

Played a kinkirk build with 2 academy pilots and howlrunner. This was the first list that actually gave me a little trouble. I messed up my target selection and went after the decimator first. Only playing 60 minute rounds I was worried about being able to kill a kinkirk with Ysanne build in time.

I lost this match at time

44-75.

Finals

Round 1

This was against a kath and IGB build. Killed kath pretty quick and finally brought down the IG quite a while later. Its a shame with the new scoring the kinda nerfed the big ships in a way because IGs are a real counter to this list.

Won 100-25 (may have lost 2 ys dont remember)

Last round was against the same tie and decimator build from round 4. This time not being worried about time concentrated fire on howlrunner and the academy pilots. Saving the decimater for mainly last just taking shots on it when I had no other shots.

Won 100 to 50.

So first place out of 12 players. I do feel swarms will be good against it along with IGs. I did not however face a fel or phantom so thats to be determined.

I mainly took it just to see what all the talk was about. It does feel really strong but not unbeatable.

Now more importantly what counters it well that will be competive in the new meta. This is still hard to tell as its no where near shaping anytime soon. But if the card and lists are left alone rest assured you will face at least one on the way up the ladder to the top tables.

Iam going to try some swarms against it this week. I feel thats where we may be shifting back to but who knows.

Something like fel with some tie fighters and howlrunner....

I really generally laugh at the people who gets but hurt about 4Y TLT's. I can't tell you how ridiculously easy it is to counter that list. Range 1 out of primary arc. All you have to do. And most people will be flying lists with ships that are higher PS than all 2's. This is like the 4Y's w/ion. It can be annoying to tackle sometimes, but seriously, just focus fire one at a time. It's not that big an issue.

Now, to the dudes who put BTL-A4 upgrades on them. HAHA. That first round will be an absolute doozy to play against. 16 attacks. 16 possible damage. Know the only ship that it's going to demoralize right off the bat? A Decimator (boy that would be fun to watch). Run is fast and hard on 4Y TLT's, you will be happy after that. Take some damage, just don't get in range of all of them at the same time and you are good.

If you think you can stay out of range and/or primary arc of 4x Y's with Unhinged that do not have to fly in formation then I wish you the best of luck in your X-Wing career Sir!

If you think you can stay out of range and/or primary arc of 4x Y's with Unhinged that do not have to fly in formation then I wish you the best of luck in your X-Wing career Sir!

sigh

It amazes me how easy people think it is ships can just zip into range 1 of a target and stay that way like a magnet all game.

If you've got higher PS, a decent dial and any kind of movement shenanigans it's really not that difficult at all.

Plus, you don't need to do it all game - only until the target is dead.

The fact is (and this point actually IS a fact) that as Vorpal pointed out above, the range one blind spot is a big drawback for TLT lists. You don't need to exploit multiple blind spots at the same time; you don't need to exploit them every turn; you don't need to exploit them with the same ship every turn.

But whenever just ONE of your ships exploits a TLT carrier's blind spot, then you're reducing the overall efficiency of the TLT list - in pretty much exactly the same way as you would be by arc dodging a ship with a regular front primary arc.

This point has been made many times, in many ways, in many threads, by many people. Ithe seems like I should probably just start cutting and pasting my version of this.

And then literally the next post is "zomg but you cannot dodge all the doughnut holes at once argle bargle".

If you think you can stay out of range and/or primary arc of 4x Y's with Unhinged that do not have to fly in formation then I wish you the best of luck in your X-Wing career Sir!

sigh

sigh

Short of breath there Monsieur?

Short of breath there Monsieur?

No, just bemused by people who think that repeating faulty logic ad nauseam does their argument any favours.

No, just bemused by people who think that repeating faulty logic ad nauseam does their argument any favours.

Yes, but when you get to range 1 of a Y-Wing there are other 3 shooting at you!

Short of breath there Monsieur?

No, just bemused by people who think that repeating faulty logic ad nauseam does their argument any favours.

Perfectly understandable, I thought it was aimed at yours truly, who was merely poking fun at another man's faulty logic.

I think many posters in this forum lack in understanding others experiences.

OP basically says its not a fun experience to face the list in many setups.

Answers are: Pah! Stop playing so bad, you cant adjust! Just take a list to counter it and you win!

However winning against the list was not the main issue stated here. It was the play experience. The list certainly is extreme. So yeah with an extreme anti-list you easily win against it.

However all those times you accidently run into it with a casual list that features low agility dice and no autothrusters its not very funny to play against it. Of course those experiences don't count... because he shoudve known better... now that ppl test TLT he just cant play such a list...

OH HAI! I was wondering how long it would take you to pop up...

aaaaaaand Godwin's polite nephew has showed up.

I think many posters in this forum lack in understanding others experiences.

OP basically says its not a fun experience to face the list in many setups.

Answers are: Pah! Stop playing so bad, you cant adjust! Just take a list to counter it and you win!

However winning against the list was not the main issue stated here. It was the play experience. The list certainly is extreme. So yeah with an extreme anti-list you easily win against it.

However all those times you accidently run into it with a casual list that features low agility dice and no autothrusters its not very funny to play against it. Of course those experiences don't count... because he shoudve known better... now that ppl test TLT he just cant play such a list...

The OP said, "when ran in multiples, the TLT is overpowered, its boring, its auto play, its slow, its tedious and the list goes on."

His first point was that it is overpowered. He later goes on to say that if you get unlucky and match one in a casual game, your hosed, essentially. The way I read it, the topic is as much about winning/losing as it is about not being fun.

The thing is, this has been true of meta lists since wave 1. People complained about 8-TIE swarms being no fun because there were too many ships and too much blocking. People tend to complain about what is powerful.

Try this one. You have Stealth Device Soontir and a swarm if Interceptors. I have dual IG-88 with Autoblaster. Is it a negativ play experience for you that your investment in defense was countered by my cannon? In my experience, you bet! But nobody complains about Autoblaster. So I get the feeling that this is less about fun and more about winning. Just my perception.

Fel with Autothrusters, Stealth Device, and Push the Limit, by himself, could beat a 4Y TLT list. And that is not an uncommon ship-build. it would take him all day, and he'd have to play extremely patiently, waiting for opponent to make mistakes (land on rocks, split themselves up, etc.), and generally take range 3 shots from a place that only allowed 1 Y to fire back at him at a time. But I think he could do it.

The OP said, "when ran in multiples, the TLT is overpowered, its boring, its auto play, its slow, its tedious and the list goes on."

His first point was that it is overpowered. He later goes on to say that if you get unlucky and match one in a casual game, your hosed, essentially. The way I read it, the topic is as much about winning/losing as it is about not being fun.

...plus of course, the debate has evolved over the 12+ pages of replies since the opening post was made. You know, as conversations on public online forums tend to do.

I think many posters in this forum lack in understanding others experiences.

OP basically says its not a fun experience to face the list in many setups.

Answers are: Pah! Stop playing so bad, you cant adjust! Just take a list to counter it and you win!

However winning against the list was not the main issue stated here. It was the play experience. The list certainly is extreme. So yeah with an extreme anti-list you easily win against it.

However all those times you accidently run into it with a casual list that features low agility dice and no autothrusters its not very funny to play against it. Of course those experiences don't count... because he shoudve known better... now that ppl test TLT he just cant play such a list...

The OP said, "when ran in multiples, the TLT is overpowered, its boring, its auto play, its slow, its tedious and the list goes on."

His first point was that it is overpowered. He later goes on to say that if you get unlucky and match one in a casual game, your hosed, essentially. The way I read it, the topic is as much about winning/losing as it is about not being fun.

The thing is, this has been true of meta lists since wave 1. People complained about 8-TIE swarms being no fun because there were too many ships and too much blocking. People tend to complain about what is powerful.

Try this one. You have Stealth Device Soontir and a swarm if Interceptors. I have dual IG-88 with Autoblaster. Is it a negativ play experience for you that your investment in defense was countered by my cannon? In my experience, you bet! But nobody complains about Autoblaster. So I get the feeling that this is less about fun and more about winning. Just my perception.

I dont really knwo the OPs intentions its just what i took from some of his reactions on the first pages. So lets just stay at our statements, thats also fine to me.

Of course it is a fact that very uneven matches als tend to be a loss. So you can always say its also about winning. I agree to that. I just wonder who has fun in matches that are more or less decided after placing ships. Of course that also isnt always true but there is a tendancy towards that when lists get extreme. I also agree to your statement about Wave 1 TIE swarms. However the same could be said for them.

For my part i like matches that turn out to be pretty close and thrilling. The more extreme lists we get through the game development the less likely this gets in random setups i think. Yes there have always been such lists and i never especially liked them. That doesnt mean at all that they are OP! It just turns out to be less fun to me if a match plays out to be very one sided.