i simply can't believe this last wave was tested thoroughly enough. i mean; i trust the developers to be clever people, and if they spend enough time with the TLT upgrade it would undoubtedly have dawned upon them what a horrible impact the 4y tlt lists would have on the game.

its just so horribly NPE for both players that I've never seen anything like it. I NEVER complain about stuff that is released. I always just suck it up if i don't like something and generally believe in the meta correctifying itself. my answer to those who whine is usually"fly better ships, buy better upgrades". I never complained about pancakes and even though phantoms almost took away my lust for the game i was initially against a fix because at the very least phantoms took skill to fly (i was very happy when the fix came and as they mostly do, FFG solved the issue elegantly). This 4y tlt list, however, is an insult to the game.

when ran in multiples, the TLT is overpowered, its boring, its auto play, its slow, its tedious and the list goes on. it forces you to play in a horribly annoying way and it forces your opponent to do very specific things or loose which is a very bad dynamic. it kills creativity in preparation for tourneys and just having such a list available in the meta sucks the game dry leaving a player who wants to have a shot at the win with very few options.

So dear FFG; make this upgrade unique or scrap it. please. Just admit that it was a wrong call or that you didn't take the time to test it well enough. Thats ok. you've done great so far, you've been busy to get product out and errors can occur. No problem. But please hurry. I really feel this upgrade could really hurt the game.

Play something that isnt a PWT or PS1-2

Do we need another thread on this or could we maybe use one of the other fifteen?

i simply can't believe this last wave was tested thoroughly enough. i mean; i trust the developers to be clever people, and if they spend enough time with the TLT upgrade it would undoubtedly have dawned upon them what a horrible impact the 4y tlt lists would have on the game.

its just so horribly NPE for both players that I've never seen anything like it. I NEVER complain about stuff that is released. I always just suck it up if i don't like something and generally believe in the meta correctifying itself. my answer to those who whine is usually"fly better ships, buy better upgrades". I never complained about pancakes and even though phantoms almost took away my lust for the game i was initially against a fix because at the very least phantoms took skill to fly (i was very happy when the fix came and as they mostly do, FFG solved the issue elegantly). This 4y tlt list, however, is an insult to the game.

when ran in multiples, the TLT is overpowered, its boring, its auto play, its slow, its tedious and the list goes on. it forces you to play in a horribly annoying way and it forces your opponent to do very specific things or loose which is a very bad dynamic. it kills creativity in preparation for tourneys and just having such a list available in the meta sucks the game dry leaving a player who wants to have a shot at the win with very few options.

So dear FFG; make this upgrade unique or scrap it. please. Just admit that it was a wrong call or that you didn't take the time to test it well enough. Thats ok. you've done great so far, you've been busy to get product out and errors can occur. No problem. But please hurry. I really feel this upgrade could really hurt the game.

So, essentially you're saying that you're unable to develop new tactics to deal with the new situation.

There is a big thread that focuses on how to deal with TLTs, might want to have a look at that one?

My name is Chicken Little, for we are many.

Or... fly things that close to range 1, and use Predator, and more than 2 attack dice.

Or panic. Uncontrollably. And run around. In circles. Repeatedly.

Change is apparently very scary. I wonder what the big boogeyman from Wave 8 will be?

Soontir Fel; PTL, Royal Guard Title, Stealth Device, Autothrusters.

Just try not to laugh or upset your opponent when all he can do is take models off.

haha. guys. quit it. I'm not saying the list is unbeatable. far from it. and i love change in the meta. didn't you read the post? Im saying its NPE.

This again! Woo.

haha. guys. quit it. I'm not saying the list is unbeatable. far from it. and i love change in the meta. didn't you read the post? Im saying its NPE.

No, we read your post. We just don't agree.

Edit: Also, what does NPE mean? It's not in the list of slang (I checked).

you think its a cool list that promotes interesting, fun elements of the game? thats the opposite of NPE.

haha. guys. quit it. I'm not saying the list is unbeatable. far from it. and i love change in the meta. didn't you read the post? Im saying its NPE.

And we are saying you are wrong. I mean, the TLT is still new. Things haven't even begun to shake out.

And please, read the huge thread discussing what to do against them. There is hardly one specific way to fight them.

i have read it. all of it.

Oh sorry. It means Negative Playing Experience. I thought it was a well known term. i didn't mean to come off all douchebaggy with silly abbreviations. This list clearly is, though. NPE. for everyone at the table. Just look at the mechanic. having to roll24 dice in one turn is bad design and to me that alone implies way too little testing. That was what this was about. not ways to beat the list.

And most likely, half those attacks will be unmodified. Have you rolled dice in this game?

I love how some people think you don't understand them when you disagree. The game gets better every time more ships and cards come out. Everything seems to get fixed if it is broken in this game. I'm loving it. I can't wait till (if it happens) people complain about ordanance!

I've only used it sparsely, and not with more than one or two in a list. But I like the card, because it's helped open up the meta and bring back a lot of ships that hadn't seen a lot of play. Y-Wings had shown up a bit with BTL-A4, but now they're everywhere. Rebel Operatives have actually started seeing play for the first time ever. With PWTs being a greater risk to fly, low-PS swarms have been showing up again.

TLTs are the nutcracker that this game sorely needed.

And most likely, half those attacks will be unmodified. Have you rolled dice in this game?

this is not about how many hits you'll score. this is about the actual feat of rolling 24 dice per turn. Having to wait for it etc. Thats bad design. i can't believe how everybody sees my post as some sort of attack on their game or what ever. i love this game. i have ten of everything and ill never stop playing it. guess my english is too poor to make my point clear. sorry.

haha. guys. quit it. I'm not saying the list is unbeatable. far from it. and i love change in the meta. didn't you read the post? Im saying its NPE.

this is about the actual feat of rolling 24 dice per turn. Having to wait for it etc.

I read the OP.

You thought the Phantom Meta would correct itself.

You thought the Fat Turret Meta would correct itself.

But the month old upgrade card with obvious weaknesses is, when used 2-4 times in a single list, so out of balance only an errata will bring it in line with everything else?

I need more context, please.

Were you okay with the double tactician stack?

Were you okay with large ship original barrel roll rules?

Or because those games ended quickly, like your other examples, they also weren't a problem?

And most likely, half those attacks will be unmodified. Have you rolled dice in this game?

this is not about how many hits you'll score. this is about the actual feat of rolling 24 dice per turn. Having to wait for it etc. Thats bad design. i can't believe how everybody sees my post as some sort of attack on their game or what ever. i love this game. i have ten of everything and ill never stop playing it. guess my english is too poor to make my point clear. sorry.

Are you seriously arguing that it is the time it takes to roll dice that is the problem?

@Scoundrel: FFG's NDA tells playtesters they can't talk about the process, but in general I don't think it's safe to assume that "I don't see how this is balanced" is the same as "they didn't spend enough time on this one in playtesting".

Change is apparently very scary. I wonder what the big boogeyman from Wave 8 will be?

Ordnance. Thread Tracers are going to be a big change in the way players think about missiles and torpedoes in the action economy.

Don't even know what to say about this.

PTing sounds like it's somewhere in Vietnam.

They don't even go to this school!

Hey, I wonder if I copy my post from the other thread if it'll get popular again... worth a shot!:

4 thugs with unhinged astromech and TLT win the final.

Turret wing...

Dice rolling: The Game

Whining: The Thread

It was bound to happen.

The question is:
What are we all going to do about it?

I think I'm dusting off sensor jammer phantoms.

See, this guy gets it. Something new comes along that can challenge the old guard? Great! After all the complaining about the previous top lists, you'd think people would be a little bit happier to have something shake things up. So instead of jumping on the forums to ***** and moan at FFG, go build some lists, do some testing, and report back when you've found the silver bullet to TLTs!!

@Scoundrel: FFG's NDA tells playtesters they can't talk about the process, but in general I don't think it's safe to assume that "I don't see how this is balanced" is the same as "they didn't spend enough time on this one in playtesting".

Change is apparently very scary. I wonder what the big boogeyman from Wave 8 will be?

Ordnance.

And blaming the playtesters is generally bad form. Unless a designer comes out and says it, we will never know if a problem was genuinely missed in playtesting, or if it was something a designer pushed through. There was some very bad behaviour in the SWLCG over some very bad designs.