Just because I'm somewhat devious.... with your example it's not obliged to move over 6 pit squares .. only 4 are enough, by going diagonaly up then down or down then up ! ;-P
OK, if you put walls in place of empty spaces on your first and last row there it has no choice but "flying" over the big pit of 6 quares long !! ;-)

But I understand what you mean, and I also think that's not really logical..
but with such games I have learn to put logic aside because the rules are here for balance and not for really, even If I think the conceptors try thier best to stay as logical as possible.. they don't always succeed !

I have question here triggered by your conclusions.

I assume that a large monster may more or less "jump" over a pit if ending its movement in at least one space not being a pit. But do we consider that its movement is ended at the end of it first action or second one ?

Because generally when i move large monsters it is as follows :

action 1: move 3 spaces + expand

action 2:move 3 spaces + expand
Which would be less permissive for Large Monsters to jump over a pit.

But perhaps we may have the choice and play it that way :

action 1 : move 3 spaces

action 2 : move 3 spaces

expand

if so i agree that it would give some kind of flying ability to large monsters.

I have question here triggered by your conclusions.

I assume that a large monster may more or less "jump" over a pit if ending its movement in at least one space not being a pit. But do we consider that its movement is ended at the end of it first action or second one ?

Because generally when i move large monsters it is as follows :

action 1: move 3 spaces + expand

action 2:move 3 spaces + expand

Which would be less permissive for Large Monsters to jump over a pit.

But perhaps we may have the choice and play it that way :

action 1 : move 3 spaces

action 2 : move 3 spaces

expand

if so i agree that it would give some kind of flying ability to large monsters.

The concept of the movement pool is never explicitly covered in the rulebook, however as I understand it you would be allowed to perform either of the two scenarios you presented.

Say a monster has a movement of 3 and two actions available.

Scenario 1: They may, if they wish, immediately spend both move actions at once to put a total of 6 movement points in their pool. They may then spend all 6 movement points, without expanding throughout the movement.

Scenario 2: Alternatively, should they wish to cover more ground, they may spend 1 move action, add 3 movement points to their pool, move anywhere from 1-3 spaces, and then spend another move action to add 3 more movement points to their pool. At the time they perform their 2nd move action, they must expand first, as interrupting or ending an action results in the monster's expansion. They may then resume spending movement from their expanded position, essentially giving them 'free movement'.

Through this technique, large monsters can perform all sorts of interesting contortions to avoid terrain/heroes/etc and cover great distances. It is one of the stranger and more confusing parts of the game.

I have question here triggered by your conclusions.

I assume that a large monster may more or less "jump" over a pit if ending its movement in at least one space not being a pit. But do we consider that its movement is ended at the end of it first action or second one ?

Because generally when i move large monsters it is as follows :

action 1: move 3 spaces + expand

action 2:move 3 spaces + expand

Which would be less permissive for Large Monsters to jump over a pit.

But perhaps we may have the choice and play it that way :

action 1 : move 3 spaces

action 2 : move 3 spaces

expand

if so i agree that it would give some kind of flying ability to large monsters.

The concept of the movement pool is never explicitly covered in the rulebook, however as I understand it you would be allowed to perform either of the two scenarios you presented.

Say a monster has a movement of 3 and two actions available.

Scenario 1: They may, if they wish, immediately spend both move actions at once to put a total of 6 movement points in their pool. They may then spend all 6 movement points, without expanding throughout the movement.

Scenario 2: Alternatively, should they wish to cover more ground, they may spend 1 move action, add 3 movement points to their pool, move anywhere from 1-3 spaces, and then spend another move action to add 3 more movement points to their pool. At the time they perform their 2nd move action, they must expand first, as interrupting or ending an action results in the monster's expansion. They may then resume spending movement from their expanded position, essentially giving them 'free movement'.

Through this technique, large monsters can perform all sorts of interesting contortions to avoid terrain/heroes/etc and cover great distances. It is one of the stranger and more confusing parts of the game.

Both scenarios are legal, and they are both covered in the rule book on page 8. I highlighted the rules that pertain directly to this discussion in bold and underline, ill repost the rules reference it for an easy reference.

Move

Question: When a large(3x2) monster enters a pit space during a move action and does not otherwise interrupt to perform another action, which of the following MUST it do, if any? a) suffer 2 damage b) stop spending MP until it has left the pit c) interrupt its movement as a result of entering the space Thank you again!

Answer:“Large monsters suffer the effects of entering and being in a pit space only if their movement ends or is interrupted so that each space they occupy is a pit space.” (FAQ v1.5) They must do neither "a" nor "b" so long as they do not end or interrupt or their movement through pit spaces so that each space they occupy is a pit space, and "c" entering a pit does not interrupt their movement. These are very big monsters and do not squish into pits easily

Thanks,
Kara Centell-Dunk
Game Developer
Fantasy Flight Games

I'm not sure I understand well this " or their movement through pit spaces so that each space they occupy is a pit space, and © entering a pit does not interrupt their movement."

Does this means that the monster on the example can 'fly' or not ?

I'm not sure I understand well this " or their movement through pit spaces so that each space they occupy is a pit space, and © entering a pit does not interrupt their movement."

Does this means that the monster on the example can 'fly' or not ?

Sorry for the lack of clarity. I just pasted my question in along with the answer. I also put quotation marks around the letters in reference to the letters in the sub-questions.

What it means is that a large monster can effectively walk across a pit with no consequences unless it stops in the pit (ending or interrupting,) and when it expands, all of the spaces its base covers are pit spaces.

While I agree that Charmy's example of a 6x6 pit takes this result to a ridiculous conclusion, that's alright because there are no pits larger than 2 spaces in there smallest dimension.

If a small Flying monster

(1) end turn in a pit space

(2) start turn in a pit space

(3) be moved into a pit space

this monster will be effected by pit ?

If a small Flying monster

(1) end turn in a pit space

(2) start turn in a pit space

(3) be moved into a pit space

this monster will be effected by pit ?

As odd as that sounds. Yes.

My personal interpretation of this is that monsters "land" when they are not moving, or - given that you'll practically never throw yourself into a Pit - if you are forcibly moved into a pit, you are "knocked down" from your flight, and tumbling down.

But yes, as far as I'm aware, I see no reason why a monster with Fly would not suffer the effects of a Pit space if it for some reason stops in one. The same is true for all terrain. Fly only ignores Terrain during movement.

The flying monster would not suffer pit effects when "moved into" a pit space- it would need to deal with getting out, though. "Landing" or not is a non-issue. The important distinction is it ignores all the bits of the rules that say "when you move into a pit..." but has to deal with the bits of rules that say "while in a pit" if it finds itself in a oit and not moving.

I think it's very weird to assume reanimates and hero treated characters cannot open and close doors.

Look at the quest where heroes shall save villagers, one start alone next to a door abd a monster group.

No sane thought would not allow these guys to open and close doors as heroes and monsters are allowed to do such.

The limitation statement surely is more a cllarification you cannot stack the same actions.

But what is even more mad is to even think these guys can't shrug off stuns or climb out pits xD

Not sure how we got to opening doors, but it's a matter of the figures only being allowed to perform actions they are explicitly said to be able to do. It's important to get out of the mindset of, "by default everything is allowed, rules place restrictions" and get into one that thinks, "by default nothing is allowed, rules/cards enable things."

A reinamate (being a familiar) can perform 1 move action. Its card additionally allows it 1 attack action. During its activation, then it has 2 actions it can perform (a total of once each).

In specific situations, the rules grant the reanimate other things it can do. The pit rules say a figure in a pit can spend one of its actions to climb out (a reanimate can therefore do this). The stunned condition allows (almost mandates) the bearer to spend an action to discard it. The reanimate can do this as well.

Right... I really want official confirmation on this matter (if not already stated here?)

Actions that says "use one of your actions to..." are - like - replacement actions that are just replaced by your normally allowed ones.

But door actions are a category on it's own...?

It's in the rulebook (though it is only discussed in the context of heroes at first). There are several options for how to spend your actions (you can also see this on the hero turn summary card):

-move

-attack

-search

-open/close a door

-rest

-stand up

-revive a hero

-use a skill or hero ability requiring an action (like a heroic feat).

(those are all the basic actions) but there is also:

-special action (this is what you'd have in a quest rules "as an action, a hero may...", or what you'd find on a health potion or condition card).

The monster equivalent of "hero ability" is a monster action likr Fire or Howl.

double-post

[...]

In specific situations, the rules grant the reanimate other things it can do. The pit rules say a figure in a pit can spend one of its actions to climb out (a reanimate can therefore do this). The stunned condition allows (almost mandates) the bearer to spend an action to discard it. The reanimate can do this as well.

Almost?

Well I guess it's possible to choose to do nothing at all.

Right... I really want official confirmation on this matter (if not already stated here?)

Actions that says "use one of your actions to..." are - like - replacement actions that are just replaced by your normally allowed ones.

But door actions are a category on it's own...?

It's in the rulebook (though it is only discussed in the context of heroes at first). There are several options for how to spend your actions (you can also see this on the hero turn summary card):

-move

-attack

-search

-open/close a door

-rest

-stand up

-revive a hero

-use a skill or hero ability requiring an action (like a heroic feat).

(those are all the basic actions) but there is also:

-special action (this is what you'd have in a quest rules "as an action, a hero may...", or what you'd find on a health potion or condition card).

The monster equivalent of "hero ability" is a monster action likr Fire or Howl.

Let's just be clear here, because I'm confused by Zaltyre's response as it reponds to Ishinken's; reanimates and other familiars treated as figures cannot open doors, right? I know this to be true, but just in case I'm wrong, I'd like to know why or how I'm wrong. Familiars that are treated as figures are not subject to the basic actions that can be taken by heroes; they can only take the actions specifically granted them. I get the feeling that you are speaking around eachother, or maybe I'm just tremendously confused either by Ishinken's question or by Zaltyre's response.

Make no mistake, though, Ishinken, I think it's stupid that Reanimates can't open doors, even though I wouldn't want to have the opening of doors to be a general ability of all familiars that are treated as figures (because this would include a feral wolf and an overgrown iguana). But I can still chalk this up to the reanimate being a mindless automaton. Pretend that it can only rip and tear and does not grasp how to open a door, but only to mindlessly beat at it with it's saber or claws or something. I'd have a harder time explaining how the wolf opens the door, or brightblaze.

It would be nice to see specifically the reanimate amended with the ability to open doors, though, but it could require a cumbersome addition of text, since the reanimate gets two separate actions, one to move (because it's a familiar) and one to attack (because it's a reanimate). It doesn't actually get two actions to spend as it wants, which as I write this makes me realize that oh my god I have no idea what actually happens when a reanimate is in a pit or is stunned, since it does not have actions it can spend it only has actions it's allowed to take so how do you know which action is replaced by the act of climbing out curse you all for making me think of this.

It was easier when I just thought of it as "It has two actions to spend, but it can only take one attack action and one movement action". Now I'm not sure what to think anymore.

To summarize my last post in a hopefully clear way:

Familiars (stones, reanimate, wolf, skye, shadow soul,etc...) can take 1 move action only by default. (They cannot perform 2 move actions.)

Some familiars (reanimate, wolf, sometimes stones) are granted additional action choices by their card or other cards.

(For example, the reanimate and wolf familiar cards grant an attack action. Terracall grants 1 stone an attack while it is exhausted. Stunned grants any stunned figure a "discard stun" action.)

An activation always consists of 2 actions (except in special cases such as Dash or Grisban's heroic feat) but for a lonely familiar like the shadow soul, there is only one action (move) available- there is nothing it can do for its second action, so it is skipped.

The other actions described above cost 1 of the 2 actions a figure has during its activation. For example:

The shadow soul activation always looks lke:

Move

The reanimate's activation may look like:

Move, Attack

Attack, Move

De-stun, Move

De-stun, Attack

They cannot open doors. They cannot search, rest, revive heroes, or stand up. They cannot move twice. They (reanimate, wolf, etc) cannot attack twice.

Thanks Zaltyre. That really cleared things up for me. I have a follow up in the case of "Burning" condition. Since the card grants an action to "you or a figure adjacent to you" does that mean a familiar such as a reanimate can remove this card from an adjacent hero as on of it's actions?

"Condition text: You or a figure adjacent to you may perform an action to discard this card or token. At the end of your turn, you and each friendly figure adjacent to you suffers 1 Heart."

I think it's explained in the rules by definition of wording.

Nowhere is the actions such as "remove stun and get out of pit" specified as specific actions. They are not listed in the "actions a hero can take" section. Meaning they are thought of as "general actions".

Pit zone description only relates that "figures" land and can get out of them. Not hero or monsters (as mentioned by other actions for example).

I think it's explained in the rules by definition of wording.

Nowhere is the actions such as "remove stun and get out of pit" specified as specific actions. They are not listed in the "actions a hero can take" section. Meaning they are thought of as "general actions".

Pit zone description only relates that "figures" land and can get out of them. Not hero or monsters (as mentioned by other actions for example).

Yes, that is how I see it too. If a situation grants a special action for a figure per the rules all figures receive the option to do that action. In the case of Bleeding, which requires a rest action, this is limited to the heroes since monsters or familiars can't perform a rest action.

Some new question about pit

1.Can a hero effected by Danse Macabre be moved from a pit into another pit 3 times and suffer 6 heart ?

2.If a large monster was moved or move into a pit all his occupied spaces,does it suffer 2 dmg and gain a stun token ? or just restrict the line of sight and movement ?

1)Yes.

2)Why would the large monster become stunned? If it ends its movement in all pit spaces it will be just like a small figure entered a pit space.

Ok, understand!

1)Yes.

2)Why would the large monster become stunned? If it ends its movement in all pit spaces it will be just like a small figure entered a pit space.

A large monster moves into one space, but enters all spaces when it expands? Or does it only enter the single space chosen as its final movement space?

Two problems arise...

1.) If a large monster ends its movement on a space 2 spaces away from a thief with caltrops, then expands so that it is adjacent, did it "enter" the adjacent space necessary to trigger caltrops?

2.) If a large monster enters all spaces it occupies when it expands, should it not then suffer 2 damage for each pit space it occupies, or one damage for each lava space it occupies?