We had a lot of discussion on this ship when it first came out. First the sky was falling because the ship was OP and a clear sign of power creep, then the sky was falling because some players misapplied Mathwing to conclude that the ship, bad at jousting, was generally useless.

Now that we've had some time to test our theories, what has everyone found out?

I've really only used Poe, who is awesome, but haven't played as much as I would have liked with him or at all with the rest. I've been running Poe+AT+R5-P9+LW, but am also seriously tempted by BB-8+PTL+AT.

All my attempts so far have been with the generic blue just so I can get a baseline and start feeling out that tallon roll. I think it does perform better than the rookie but how much more? Kinda a toss up. Well, and it's been so long since I've bothered with rookies that it's not really fair.

Fun? Oh ya. Better? Probably. Competitive? Unclear, the future is.

Poe is awesome in both Offensive (PTL-BB8) and Defensive (LW/R5P9) configurations.

I haven't run the others yet, but I like the looks of the Red Squadron Veteran, and want to run a mixed T-70/T-65 list when Integrated Astromech becomes available.

i run poe as a replacement for corran. he's cheaper with more health.

VI, AT, r5-p9

he moves last, gets his focus, is very consistent on both ends of the attack phase, and then regens.

I've only paired him with a standard superdash (with proton rockets to change the doughnut to a croissant) and my opponent was so worried about dash that Poe was able to clean up the end game.

Poe is very good. the other ships need more testing. the more generic you get, the more BB-8 helps over come any perceived weakness. i'd like to see 4 of them on the table, but thats a hefty investment right now.

At least I wouldn´t run him with Lone Wolf, I would rather take PTL. When you take something else you always have to decide whether to take a focus token for his ability (and/or weapon guidance) or to boost (which can also be life saving).

If you like tHe manuevering part of the game than the dice part, b8 + ptl is the most fun you'll ever have with an xwing

On poe, it turns him into a monster of all trades

Maneuverable? Check

Stress free fully modified shots? Check

Modified defense afterwards? Check

Block resistant? Check

Green dice resistant? Check

Poe's just an all around badass

That said, I don't really like him with r5p9. He's tough as old boots, sure, but He's not terribly manueverable nor hard to pin down

I learned that his ability, while unquestionably solid, will not keep him from being unceremoniously butchered .

One focus to evade will not save your ass from an angry Vader, for example. Bb8 taking you around obstacles that Vader wouldn't dare go through (especially with Miranda on his ass) will

IMO, unless you never want to see swarms or tlts again, Bb8 is the astromech most worthy of the slot. It basically turns him into a balanced pre errata rebel phantom

Of course I'll always thrust positioning over dice, even if it's poe.

I've fought aginst him four times won two lost two, I took new ties, howl, and a decked out redline. The t70 that was taken was Poe with the r5p9 which I found to be very defensive. The way to beat it was to overwhelm him make him use his focus to surive, then he's not regenerating his shield. He's hard to pin down though, and there's still the other ships with him. I found killing the other ships with him to be the better option and then make him expose himself if he wanted to catch up on points.

I do think the Poe version with the bb-88 and ptl is like a pre-nerf phantom but I haven't faced it yet so can't say much but I'd be willing to bet its a sold build.

I think it's a nice addtion maybe a point or two undercossed but hay nothing's perfect.

the problem with bb-8/ptl poe is that it marries you to those green maneuvers, and then poe is married to focus. its just not as flexible as i'd like. the new x wing is better than its green maneuvers, though i havent had a chance to use the tallon roll yet. i was chasing a houndstooth with him and never had to work for an attack once i got behind it.

the problem with bb-8/ptl poe is that it marries you to those green maneuvers, and then poe is married to focus. its just not as flexible as i'd like. the new x wing is better than its green maneuvers, though i havent had a chance to use the tallon roll yet. i was chasing a houndstooth with him and never had to work for an attack once i got behind it.

the green maneuvers are an easy price to pay

the flexibility given by the pre-manuever roll is simply unparalleled by any dial in the game (unless you got de-cloaks or advanced sensors), and the fact that they come with built-in action efficiency from PTL shenanigans means you should always have a focus up by the end of it. That's not even getting into how hilarious it is with boost.

plus, you don't have to use it (which really throws some players off )

the problem with bb-8/ptl poe is that it marries you to those green maneuvers, and then poe is married to focus. its just not as flexible as i'd like. the new x wing is better than its green maneuvers, though i havent had a chance to use the tallon roll yet. i was chasing a houndstooth with him and never had to work for an attack once i got behind it.

the green maneuvers are an easy price to pay

the flexibility given by the pre-manuever roll is simply unparalleled by any dial in the game (unless you got de-cloaks or advanced sensors), and the fact that they come with built-in action efficiency from PTL shenanigans means you should always have a focus up by the end of it. That's not even getting into how hilarious it is with boost.

plus, you don't have to use it (which really throws some players off )

i can only see its usefulness in very tight situations where you've set the opportunity for the barrel to be effective a turn or two out. i think it depends on what you're flying against. small ships, barrel roll. large ships, boost to keep up.

bb-8's usefulness is at least two-fold

1.) is just the pre-manuever barrel-roll itself

it gives your opponent three positions to guess from (roll to either direction & not rolling at all)

you can do silly things like park Poe right in front of an asteroid without any concern of overlapping it next turn, giving him access to routes only de-cloak or sensor ships can follow

it makes him an incredibly slippery bastard against low ps

2.) the action efficiency is hilarious and unblockable/obstructable

b-roll --> ptl action --> green maneuver clear stress --> normal action = 3 actions, no stress

because the ptl action takes place prior to manuevering, it cannot be denied by block or obstruction (the twin banes of soontir/vader and the like)

because it leaves you unstressed at the end, you're free to do whatever you like next turn (more bb-8, white maneuver, t-roll...)

So, as to the question of "when is bb-8 useful?" the answer is always. Even if you're using it just to modify dice, you're getting full re-rolls (no fiddling with predator) and a focus for no stress

bb-8 also single handedly makes Wedge viable. Had a game against r5-p9 Poe, an r3-a2 rookie, and bb-8 + ptl wedge (IAs on the x-wings) where he tore down everything except Whisper. The problem was my opponent's poor Poe ran aground on an errant tie tighter and got slaughtered (too bad bb-8 is unique) leaving poor Wedge to fight valiantly till the end

throughout the entire game, Wedge was a monstrous threat of hard-to-pin-down fully modified attacks (At -1 agility!) but the ties' lives bought enough time for whisper to eat into him until he had to jettison bb8 with integrated astromech.

after that, reverting back to Wedge sans BB-8, it was just sad

I was thinking that PTL and BB8 would work well together at first until I read the rules again. I'm assuming everyone's working on the basis that the green manoeuvre would clear the PTL stress and give you a barrel roll. Surely it would end up as follows though:

- Start the round with stress from last round's PTL.

- Select green manoeuvre.

- Reveal green manoeuvre. You are unable to take the free barrel roll action due to being stressed.

- Complete manoeuvre. Clear stress.

Edit: And fickle posts how they work together at the same time I post this >.<

I hadn't considered triggering PTL off the pre-move barrel roll.

I was thinking that PTL and BB8 would work well together at first until I read the rules again. I'm assuming everyone's working on the basis that the green manoeuvre would clear the PTL stress and give you a barrel roll. Surely it would end up as follows though:

- Start the round with stress from last round's PTL.

- Select green manoeuvre.

- Reveal green manoeuvre. You are unable to take the free barrel roll action due to being stressed.

- Complete manoeuvre. Clear stress.

Edit: And fickle posts how they work together at the same time I post this >.<

I hadn't considered triggering PTL off the pre-move barrel roll.

you're close, but you are using ptl at the wrong time. you are allowed to use it after the barrel roll, and the green maneuver clears that stress. this allows you to perform an action at the regular perform action step for no negative cost.

however, fickle, you cant turn. and you need to turn.

Edit: And fickle posts how they work together at the same time I post this >.<

I hadn't considered triggering PTL off the pre-move barrel roll.

that's not so bad

I was squeeing at this card back when I thought it gave you a barrel-roll after a green maneuver

I was thinking that PTL and BB8 would work well together at first until I read the rules again. I'm assuming everyone's working on the basis that the green manoeuvre would clear the PTL stress and give you a barrel roll. Surely it would end up as follows though:

- Start the round with stress from last round's PTL.

- Select green manoeuvre.

- Reveal green manoeuvre. You are unable to take the free barrel roll action due to being stressed.

- Complete manoeuvre. Clear stress.

Edit: And fickle posts how they work together at the same time I post this >.<

I hadn't considered triggering PTL off the pre-move barrel roll.

you're close, but you are using ptl at the wrong time. you are allowed to use it after the barrel roll, and the green maneuver clears that stress. this allows you to perform an action at the regular perform action step for no negative cost.

however, fickle, you cant turn. and you need to turn.

forethought, barrel-roll and boost = you don't really need to turn

bb8 optional effect = you can if you really want to

Right. Optional is well and good.

But it's a waste if you aren't using it. If you aren't gonna use bb-8, your PTL becomes standard, which means you'll be stressed, which means every time you don't use BB-8, you don't use BB-8 for 2 turns.

Unless you want to tell me that PTL is also optional, and that you often bring 5 points in upgrades that you don't intend to use all the time.

Right. Optional is well and good.

But it's a waste if you aren't using it. If you aren't gonna use bb-8, your PTL becomes standard, which means you'll be stressed, which means every time you don't use BB-8, you don't use BB-8 for 2 turns.

Unless you want to tell me that PTL is also optional, and that you often bring 5 points in upgrades that you don't intend to use all the time.

yes indeed

placing the artificial restriction that you have to use something all the time is a great way to be predictable, not to mention an incredibly unrealistic standard (even with predator, if you're not flying a PWT, can you really say you should be shooting every turn?)

not that this means you only use bb-8 sometimes. You'll be using it the grand majority of your rounds, simply because it's useful even just for the action efficiency (nevermind the shenanigans), but it's also something you can turn off when convenient

it is ridiculously flexible

Yesterday I played this list in a store tournament:

Poe, PTL, R5P9, AT

Red Vet, Predator, R2D2, AT

Green Squad, A-Wing Test Pilot, Chardaan Refit, Predator, Opportunist, AT

I took 2nd place by the skin of my teeth! The shield regen and extra shield on the new X is great, and boost really helps, but I probably won't take it to a tournament again as it wasn't my flying style. A tech upgrade to provide more green on the dial would really help, similar to twin ion, otherwise you are too predictable. Dice and good strategy eeked me by until the final round.

I've been running 3 T-70s for a few weeks with mixed results.

Poe BB8 PTL wpn guidance AT

Red sq Vet Wired R5 AT

Red sq Vet Wired R5 AT

They can tear into a TLT spam list pretty good, but haven't won. Wired keeps the red vets dangerous after a k-turn or tallon roll but Poe is vulnerable when doing so and instead I'll sometimes just hard turn him to keep a focus on him but he can end up without a shot sometimes.

I'm open to wisdom....

Flew a T-70 for the first time today; Red Vet with PTL, generic R2, and AT. It was fun, performed well.

I've been using red squadron Veteran with predator and auto thrusters as a sweeper for a list of Rebel generics and its been working pretty well

I've been running 3 T-70s for a few weeks with mixed results.

Poe BB8 PTL wpn guidance AT

Red sq Vet Wired R5 AT

Red sq Vet Wired R5 AT

They can tear into a TLT spam list pretty good, but haven't won. Wired keeps the red vets dangerous after a k-turn or tallon roll but Poe is vulnerable when doing so and instead I'll sometimes just hard turn him to keep a focus on him but he can end up without a shot sometimes.

I'm open to wisdom....

He isnt a T70, but Garven, Herobot, IA and VI is a good support choice, he can activate before Poe and pass his focus if you know you are going to K turn. The T65 can keep up with the T70 for the most part and isnt a slouch offensively either.

Unless you want to tell me that PTL is also optional, and that you often bring 5 points in upgrades that you don't intend to use all the time.

Of course PTL is optional... There will be times in which a 2nd action is not only only suboptimal, but rather detrimental, especially on a T-65 or T-70.

If you already have a TL, boosting may be the worse thing you could do. It could put you in a spot where you don't have a target or worse puts you in the arc of other stuff. Sometimes it won't even be an option because you don't have room.

So there is no reason at all to base the value of an upgrade on how often you will use it. No upgrade should be useful 100% of the time.