I don't buy stuff I'm not going to use this applies to everything no just hobbies I don't buy junk for the sake of owning it.

I don't think the fo is a good fighter I've explained why in several threads now and it'll never get flown.

If I get a t-70 it'll be with wave eight and cost me less than buying the core.

You'll never get retail for the ships so your losing money still and I'd have to pack them up ship them off creating work for myself I shouldn't need to do because I didn't want to buy the core in the first place.

I'm the only imp player so I can't even give them away.

90% of that core is useless to me.

I have neither the time nor the inclination to read all the posts in yet another group therapy session on this forum. Frankly, they are all the same and just as boring as ever. Here is my 2 cents on teh topic of cost shotgun style.

1) You don't "invest" in a hobby/game. It is a sunk cost, like buying a car. Unless you are reselling minis with some sort of value-added upgrade (new paint, lights, whatever), they lose value the moment you open the package. You "invest" in this game like you "invest" in a movie or drinks at the bar.

2) Nobody is forcing you to buy anything. It is a game. It is optional to living a healthy and productive life. Just because FFG makes something does not mean you have to buy it. It is a choice.

3) You don't have to play tournaments. Again, this is a choice you make. It is a lifestyle you choose to partake in. If the game becomes something you are unable to keep up with, do something else.

4) If spending $40 is going to send you down the path to financial ruin, don't spend it. Use the time and money that you would spend on this hobby to better yourself to make more money. It is a choice you can make. If you are broke, don't spend your precious money on toys.

Now I'd like to go on a rant here. I know people will accuse me of being an elitist jerk (or worse) and that is fine. I'm a big boy. I can take it. What most people don't know is that I worked as a janitor to get through college. I as up at 6 AM on Saturdays to clean up puke and other less savory bodily discharges because I was flat broke. I worked my butt off in college to get a degree in an area that would get me a good job. I've worked crummy jobs right out of school so that I could get my foot in the door to lead to bigger and better things. These were all choices I made with the goal to live a better life later. Now I am reaping those rewards. I have a pretty good job that pays me a pretty good salary and gives me time to do things with the kids. I don't worry about $40. Not to sound like an old man, but younger people just don't understand that you start at the bottom and stuff rolls downhill. You have to put up with the stuff to get to a better place and you will get there as long as you strive for that goal. Everyone want to start out as CEO these days...

Same here Brah. I was that cute fat kid (kinda like Spanky from Little Rascals) walking the neighborhood with a lawn mower, gas can and broom in the Summer, and a rake, broom and trash bags in the Autumn working them yards to buy to toys, comics and candy pop pops.

My dad got a snowblower and a new lawnmower that wasn't made from cast iron an weighed a ton after I left for college. I shoveled snow in the winter for a few bucks and I mowed lawns in the summer too. Although I did mow the elderly neighbor's yard essentially for free because my parents forbade me from asking for money from them. It was my "doing the right thing even though it sucks" learning experience.

Not to sound like an old man, but younger people just don't understand that you start at the bottom and stuff rolls downhill. You have to put up with the stuff to get to a better place and you will get there as long as you strive for that goal. Everyone want to start out as CEO these days...

Not getting deep into this, because it's WAY off-topic for an X-Wing forum, but the answer to not being poor isn't "just work harder", it's "just work harder AND GET SOME LUCK". That is to be 100% clear IN NO WAY to denigrate the work you put in to better yourself, but it's profoundly blinkered to assume that anyone who's not been as successful as you are hasn't worked as hard as you did, or contrariwise that anyone who works as hard as you did would have the same success you had.

Oh, and literally every generation ever believed that the generation that followed them is lazy and entitled and disrespectful and doesn't understand the value of hard work. And literally every generation ever has been wrong.

This isn't really the place for a discussion about this so I'm checking out of this thread. And there was much rejoicing.

Luck had absolutely nothing to do with it. Frankly, I find it insulting that people call my moderate personal success "luck". It is called having a strategic outlook on my life and career. You ALWAYS have a choice. Doing nothing is a choice. Challenging yourself is a choice. Do I always make the right choice? No. I have made some terrible career and personal decisions. The trick is to recognize those poor choices and do something about it.

And I do believe the generational thing is real and a goodish thing. As technology and progress marches on, it makes life easier. I find it amazing that I can buy a robot to vacuum my house. My kids will probably have the option to buy a robot to do all sorts of household chores so they can call their kids lazy.

I shelled out the 40 bucks despite the fact that I have no desire to fly the new ships. Before, I've only ever bought what I wanted for this game, but in this instance, buying a new core for a damage deck will allow me to continue playing in tournaments. I'm not lamenting the loss of the old damage deck as much as wondering why couldn't it be sold separately?

Then I remembered that it came with new templates, a new rules reference, more dice (to replace my tired and blank friendly ones), another range ruler, some astromechs, new asteroids, and some interesting Elite Talent cards. Also, while I may not be fond of the T-70, Poe is an awesome pilot. So I got over my anger quickly.

2 quarters in a jar per day between now and your first tournament after January 1.

Prioritze, budget your money and SAVE, these things seem to escape the majority of people in the current "now" society! Too many people have to have things "now" and can't perceive the idea of patience!

We know about waves and tournament requirements MONTHS ahead, simply PLAN AHEAD!

As to the damage decks, tons of guys on here have stated that they'll be selling their extras! Save $.50 a week until Jan 1 and buy one from one of those guys at that time! Easy fix, quit the complaining and THINK of a solution!

2 quarters in a jar per day between now and your first tournament after January 1.

Prioritze, budget your money and SAVE, these things seem to escape the majority of people in the current "now" society! Too many people have to have things "now" and can't perceive the idea of patience!

We know about waves and tournament requirements MONTHS ahead, simply PLAN AHEAD!

As to the damage decks, tons of guys on here have stated that they'll be selling their extras! Save $.50 a week until Jan 1 and buy one from one of those guys at that time! Easy fix, quit the complaining and THINK of a solution!

You are a genius, people should SAVE for stuff they do not WANT and plan ahead as well. I bet you even came up with that brilliance on the fly without even an ounce of thought. You sir should get a Nobel prize! And in case it's not totally obvious to everyone that was all a top level sarcasm.

So wait you're saying I don't need to plan and budget for paying for my car insurance because I don't want it and it doesn't give me and benefit other than being the gateway to a thing I want to do? Sweet.

I really don't get why people find it so hard to understand why people don't want the new core. If I already owned all the stuff from the previous 7 waves then I'd probably get it as is I have about £400 of other stuff to get first.

I don't think that the core set is bad value in terms of the sum of its components, I don't particularly dislike the ships, I just find the new core set to be a bit uninspiring. I get excited by GCW era stuff because the original trilogy has a special place in my head. Currently the characters and ships from The Force Unleashed don't get to share that place, after I've seen the film I may feel differently, but if it sucks the new ships will be tarnished for me. That's why I don't want to invest in the new core set!

I don't think the fo is a good fighter I've explained why in several threads now and it'll never get flown.

It's health per point is higher than the TIE fighter. It has the best dial in the game. It has three incredible ace pilots.

And to cap it all off, Epsilon Leader, every stress guzzling Imperial ship's best friend.

Furthermore, in researching the threads you mentioned I found out that you don't play tournaments, so you don't need the new damage deck anyway.

The only people in a terrible position here are Scum only tournament players, and they're something of a minority.

Currently the characters and ships from The Force Unleashed don't get to share that place, after I've seen the film I may feel differently, but if it sucks the new ships will be tarnished for me. That's why I don't want to invest in the new core set!

It's not required until January, so you've got plenty of time to answer that question.

If you're not a tournament player, you do't need it anyway. If you are then there are plenty of other players around who could potentially take your white TIEs and blue X-wings off your hands.

Or paint the TIEs black and move the wings on the X-wing.

Yet for all of the hate yap they have spat this last week or so, these Schmucks will still buy the thing for $50 because they got to keep their hole in the sad wall strip mall crap FLGS shacks open... they wanna do their part!

Careful! That's me you're talking about!

I've been nothing but sympathetic to those who just want the damage deck, but when push comes to shove, I know I'll be in line at my FLGS paying for some pretty plastic ships that will sit in a box while my Scyks, Kihraxz, Y-wings, and Aggressors fly around with sporty new crits on their hulls. I know I won't use the ships, and I'm not super competitive, but I think the new damage deck is a great improvement even for casual play, and I've decided to fork over my children's dinner "spare money" to keep up with the game, keep my store open, and not feel like a pariah stuck in the dark times with an old damage deck. My choice. My mistakes.

If you're playing at a store you could probably easily find someone willing to buy a T-70 and some TIE/fos.

Don't get me wrong, I buy all the X-wing stuff as I like it.

And most of the time FFG gets the contents of a product right in terms of attractiveness.

However, besides all the blahblahblah about licenses the following are all just a money grab:

- bundling cards with ships

- bundling small ships with big ships

- requiring the new damage deck and putting it in the new starter set

The unfortunate state of affairs is that if you want something specific you'll have to hit the secondary market.

2 quarters in a jar per day between now and your first tournament after January 1.

Prioritze, budget your money and SAVE, these things seem to escape the majority of people in the current "now" society! Too many people have to have things "now" and can't perceive the idea of patience!

We know about waves and tournament requirements MONTHS ahead, simply PLAN AHEAD!

As to the damage decks, tons of guys on here have stated that they'll be selling their extras! Save $.50 a week until Jan 1 and buy one from one of those guys at that time! Easy fix, quit the complaining and THINK of a solution!

You are a genius, people should SAVE for stuff they do not WANT and plan ahead as well. I bet you even came up with that brilliance on the fly without even an ounce of thought. You sir should get a Nobel prize! And in case it's not totally obvious to everyone that was all a top level sarcasm.

So wait you're saying I don't need to plan and budget for paying for my car insurance because I don't want it and it doesn't give me and benefit other than being the gateway to a thing I want to do? Sweet.

Its apparent you have one bit of value, you found my typo. Ty even though your just trying to spin things, you know what it was supposed to say but yet tried to flip it because your argument is weak with no thought.

Luck had absolutely nothing to do with it. Frankly, I find it insulting that people call my moderate personal success "luck".

You might consider why you think it's appropriate to tell The Kids These Days that they Just Don't Understand, but find it insulting to have your own ideas about yourself and your life challenged.

Don't get me wrong, I buy all the X-wing stuff as I like it.

And most of the time FFG gets the contents of a product right in terms of attractiveness.

However, besides all the blahblahblah about licenses the following are all just a money grab:

- bundling cards with ships

- bundling small ships with big ships

- requiring the new damage deck and putting it in the new starter set

The unfortunate state of affairs is that if you want something specific you'll have to hit the secondary market.

Feel free to not play or purchase if this bothers you.

If you're playing at a store you could probably easily find someone willing to buy a T-70 and some TIE/fos.

Another no thought idea. What is the deal with this forum? No one thinks.

Do what you said and your stealing the shops sales on their premises, something most shops dispisd as it impacts their already slim bottom line.

The flgs's I've dealt with you bring that up in the wrong peoples presence the players will toss you out before the proprietor has a chance. We gamers with shops we like understand how hard it is to keep a game shop going and have no problem educating people with ideas like yours.

Want to play casual? Cool do that. Mix in the damage deck from D&D attack wing for all I care.

Want to play competitively? Then since FFG runs the show and they say this is the only way to obtain the necessary components then I suppose you have your options. You can be upset and voice opinions but it doesn't change the facts There is a cost to stay competitive.

Not to sound like an old man, but younger people just don't understand that you start at the bottom and stuff rolls downhill. You have to put up with the stuff to get to a better place and you will get there as long as you strive for that goal. Everyone want to start out as CEO these days...

Not getting deep into this, because it's WAY off-topic for an X-Wing forum, but the answer to not being poor isn't "just work harder", it's "just work harder AND GET SOME LUCK". That is to be 100% clear IN NO WAY to denigrate the work you put in to better yourself, but it's profoundly blinkered to assume that anyone who's not been as successful as you are hasn't worked as hard as you did, or contrariwise that anyone who works as hard as you did would have the same success you had.

Oh, and literally every generation ever believed that the generation that followed them is lazy and entitled and disrespectful and doesn't understand the value of hard work. And literally every generation ever has been wrong.

This isn't really the place for a discussion about this so I'm checking out of this thread. And there was much rejoicing.

Luck had absolutely nothing to do with it. Frankly, I find it insulting that people call my moderate personal success "luck". It is called having a strategic outlook on my life and career. You ALWAYS have a choice. Doing nothing is a choice. Challenging yourself is a choice. Do I always make the right choice? No. I have made some terrible career and personal decisions. The trick is to recognize those poor choices and do something about it.

And I do believe the generational thing is real and a goodish thing. As technology and progress marches on, it makes life easier. I find it amazing that I can buy a robot to vacuum my house. My kids will probably have the option to buy a robot to do all sorts of household chores so they can call their kids lazy.

Of course you were lucky to be born into a society and a position were you actually had the freedom to pursue your personal succuess, not acknowledging that is a gigantic disrespect towards the millions of people who don't have that. There are people, I know that is hard to grasp, who have no power at all to change their situation. You do not "always have a choice".

It's health per point is higher than the TIE fighter. It has the best dial in the game. It has three incredible ace pilots.

Yet it's joust efficiency is 7.5% worse.

Never disputed it has a nice dial but it's not enough to save the ship.

Aces are too expensive on a ship that can pop just as easily as a /ln, few people use named headhunters for the same reason they don't get their points back.

Furthermore, in researching the threads you mentioned I found out that you don't play tournaments, so you don't need the new damage deck anyway.

So? plenty of tournament players have voiced the same problems with the core as i have, just because i don't need it does not mean i can't lend support to my fellow gamers.

I'm thinking of the whole community not just myself.

I don't buy stuff I'm not going to use this applies to everything no just hobbies I don't buy junk for the sake of owning it.

I don't think the fo is a good fighter I've explained why in several threads now and it'll never get flown.

If I get a t-70 it'll be with wave eight and cost me less than buying the core.

You'll never get retail for the ships so your losing money still and I'd have to pack them up ship them off creating work for myself I shouldn't need to do because I didn't want to buy the core in the first place.

I'm the only imp player so I can't even give them away.

90% of that core is useless to me.

That's exactly my thought. And to add something of my own to it, I don't feel myself as attached to the TFA-Generation-fighters as to the OT-era-fighters. TFA is just not my thing.

Also I have to mention I do indeed play tournaments (on a store level, that is. But nevertheless with the official catalog).

So, yeah, the box has no use to me other than providing the damage deck and lots of work to get rid of the superfluous stuff I don't need and want.

---

As an example how it could have been done:

When Privateer Press changed from their MK.I-Edition to Mk.II they provided they players with Mk.II-faction decks including way more updated unit-entry-cards than the normal player collector needed, for a reasonable price - all the while selling a faction book, too, which was also a catalogue for stats (artwork, a couple of new units stats and Tier-Lists as a bonus). That was well done.

I don't see, why this couldn't have been possible for FFG, in regards to the dice packs of Armada and X-Wing or the clunky maneuver snake of Armada (or the new coloured bases).

Don't get me wrong, I buy all the X-wing stuff as I like it.

And most of the time FFG gets the contents of a product right in terms of attractiveness.

However, besides all the blahblahblah about licenses the following are all just a money grab:

- bundling cards with ships

- bundling small ships with big ships

- requiring the new damage deck and putting it in the new starter set

The unfortunate state of affairs is that if you want something specific you'll have to hit the secondary market.

I don't have an issue with the ships/cards or big ship small ship bundling. While you may want certain cards for certain ships you don't absolutely need them to play. Thinking you have to have certain cards from ships you don't want is only a problem if being competitive is all you play for.

To be honest I have no problem with them putting a new damage deck in the new starter. What I have issue with is they say the old starter is an equal beginning point to play the game and continue to sell the old alongside the new but the exclude those who only have the old from their official events. If they would of discontinued the old set or 2nd edition it with the new paper and card I might not of liked it but could understand it. Right now they're asking for trouble since by their owns actions the starters are not equal.

Don't get me wrong, I buy all the X-wing stuff as I like it.

And most of the time FFG gets the contents of a product right in terms of attractiveness.

However, besides all the blahblahblah about licenses the following are all just a money grab:

- bundling cards with ships

- bundling small ships with big ships

- requiring the new damage deck and putting it in the new starter set

The unfortunate state of affairs is that if you want something specific you'll have to hit the secondary market.

Feel free to not play or purchase if this bothers you.

Keep doing your best to drive folks away from the game. I bet FFG loves your defense of them, by telling people to basically get out we don't want you.

Luck had absolutely nothing to do with it. Frankly, I find it insulting that people call my moderate personal success "luck".

You might consider why you think it's appropriate to tell The Kids These Days that they Just Don't Understand, but find it insulting to have your own ideas about yourself and your life challenged.

+1 internet to you for the perfect slapdown! Ty, now I don't have to worry if luck will allow me to get to a keyboard to slap his high and mightyness in more detail. Oh that's right luck has nothing to do with life, with all the other stuff going on out of your controller things such as odds and chance don't exist in life........ lol not

Not to sound like an old man, but younger people just don't understand that you start at the bottom and stuff rolls downhill. You have to put up with the stuff to get to a better place and you will get there as long as you strive for that goal. Everyone want to start out as CEO these days...

Not getting deep into this, because it's WAY off-topic for an X-Wing forum, but the answer to not being poor isn't "just work harder", it's "just work harder AND GET SOME LUCK". That is to be 100% clear IN NO WAY to denigrate the work you put in to better yourself, but it's profoundly blinkered to assume that anyone who's not been as successful as you are hasn't worked as hard as you did, or contrariwise that anyone who works as hard as you did would have the same success you had.

Oh, and literally every generation ever believed that the generation that followed them is lazy and entitled and disrespectful and doesn't understand the value of hard work. And literally every generation ever has been wrong.

This isn't really the place for a discussion about this so I'm checking out of this thread. And there was much rejoicing.

Luck had absolutely nothing to do with it. Frankly, I find it insulting that people call my moderate personal success "luck". It is called having a strategic outlook on my life and career. You ALWAYS have a choice. Doing nothing is a choice. Challenging yourself is a choice. Do I always make the right choice? No. I have made some terrible career and personal decisions. The trick is to recognize those poor choices and do something about it.

And I do believe the generational thing is real and a goodish thing. As technology and progress marches on, it makes life easier. I find it amazing that I can buy a robot to vacuum my house. My kids will probably have the option to buy a robot to do all sorts of household chores so they can call their kids lazy.

Of course you were lucky to be born into a society and a position were you actually had the freedom to pursue your personal succuess, not acknowledging that is a gigantic disrespect towards the millions of people who don't have that. There are people, I know that is hard to grasp, who have no power at all to change their situation. You do not "always have a choice".

I assumed that because I was posting on an online forum that is supported by a game company I was not speaking to people living in mud huts or in North Korea.

Assigning all success in life to luck is lazy and an easy way for people to justify their own shortcomings. My life could have been very very different if I had made other choices at critical points in time. Also, a person always has a choice. Always. Whether or not they recognize it or not is the key. Sometimes there are only bad outcomes but the choice is always there nonetheless.

Or am I completely misreading this and you are talking about predetermination? Would I be at this exact spot regardless of what I did? Was my fate sealed and my life path chosen before my conception? I hope not. I don't think I am all that special. Or, was my brain already hard-wired so that while I thought I was making choices, I really was not because my brain had already made them and was giving me the illusion of choice? Interesting idea.

Feel free to not play or purchase if this bothers you.

Keep doing your best to drive folks away from the game. I bet FFG loves your defense of them, by telling people to basically get out we don't want you.

Well, aren't you a special snowflake. I'm sure that FFG is aware that they won't be able to please everyone. Given that this game is a luxury, if you don't like it, you are free to exercise choice and choose to do something else. You know, like what adults do.

Not to sound like an old man, but younger people just don't understand that you start at the bottom and stuff rolls downhill. You have to put up with the stuff to get to a better place and you will get there as long as you strive for that goal. Everyone want to start out as CEO these days...

Not getting deep into this, because it's WAY off-topic for an X-Wing forum, but the answer to not being poor isn't "just work harder", it's "just work harder AND GET SOME LUCK". That is to be 100% clear IN NO WAY to denigrate the work you put in to better yourself, but it's profoundly blinkered to assume that anyone who's not been as successful as you are hasn't worked as hard as you did, or contrariwise that anyone who works as hard as you did would have the same success you had.

Oh, and literally every generation ever believed that the generation that followed them is lazy and entitled and disrespectful and doesn't understand the value of hard work. And literally every generation ever has been wrong.

This isn't really the place for a discussion about this so I'm checking out of this thread. And there was much rejoicing.

Luck had absolutely nothing to do with it. Frankly, I find it insulting that people call my moderate personal success "luck". It is called having a strategic outlook on my life and career. You ALWAYS have a choice. Doing nothing is a choice. Challenging yourself is a choice. Do I always make the right choice? No. I have made some terrible career and personal decisions. The trick is to recognize those poor choices and do something about it.

And I do believe the generational thing is real and a goodish thing. As technology and progress marches on, it makes life easier. I find it amazing that I can buy a robot to vacuum my house. My kids will probably have the option to buy a robot to do all sorts of household chores so they can call their kids lazy.

Of course you were lucky to be born into a society and a position were you actually had the freedom to pursue your personal succuess, not acknowledging that is a gigantic disrespect towards the millions of people who don't have that. There are people, I know that is hard to grasp, who have no power at all to change their situation. You do not "always have a choice".

I assumed that because I was posting on an online forum that is supported by a game company I was not speaking to people living in mud huts or in North Korea.

Assigning all success in life to luck is lazy and an easy way for people to justify their own shortcomings. My life could have been very very different if I had made other choices at critical points in time. Also, a person always has a choice. Always. Whether or not they recognize it or not is the key. Sometimes there are only bad outcomes but the choice is always there nonetheless.

Or am I completely misreading this and you are talking about predetermination? Would I be at this exact spot regardless of what I did? Was my fate sealed and my life path chosen before my conception? I hope not. I don't think I am all that special. Or, was my brain already hard-wired so that while I thought I was making choices, I really was not because my brain had already made them and was giving me the illusion of choice? Interesting idea.

Fine, other question, does one chose to get cancer in a disfunctional healthcare system? Do you make a bad choice when you support family members in a similar position? Our society is not fair. You are right, there is no good luck and success has to be worked for, but bad luck exists and blaming people for the situation they are in is ignorant.

This is the one thing I absolutly hate about US culture, this idea that someone in a financial bad spot has only himself to blame. The American dream is a fallacy.

Hello X-Wing forum community-

This thread has been locked because it has devolved into hostility and political discussion. These forums exist to discuss the X-Wing Miniatures Game. Political discussion is out of place here. Please feel free to continue beneficial conversation elsewhere, and remember to be kind and civil to all other users.

Thanks, and keep playing,

FFG Forum Moderator