or, you could just try out the counters listed, see that they work, and stop whining about something you can win against

Ooooooooh!

Fight! Fight! Fight! Fight!

There is zero need to be so belligerent Celes.

Everyone seems to be getting awfully worked up over this. It's a game folks remember. It's played for fun and recreation.

There is zero need to be so belligerent Celes.

Everyone seems to be getting awfully worked up over this. It's a game folks remember. It's played for fun and recreation.

Plastic spaceship games are a serious thing. Please, do not disturb any adult fighting over it.

I've yet to take my XXX List against 4 TLT, but I can't Autothrust around the room in my Jammies like everyone else, so I don't know what to do really. Jousting seems like the only viable strat, but I've a 1 ship disadvantage and am incredibly vulnerable on the initial close. I must spend more time on this conundrum!

There is zero need to be so belligerent Celes.

Everyone seems to be getting awfully worked up over this. It's a game folks remember. It's played for fun and recreation.

Plastic spaceship games are a serious thing. Please, do not disturb any adult fighting over it.

well, you're right about it being serious

here's a knife... do something with the knife

pretty sure you're disqualified from a tournament (and banned from the venue) if you pull a knife on your opponent's tlts

pretty sure you're disqualified from a tournament (and banned from the venue) if you pull a knife on your opponent's tlts

I find zero mention of knives in the tournament rules. Can you cite your source please ?

There is zero need to be so belligerent Celes.

Everyone seems to be getting awfully worked up over this. It's a game folks remember. It's played for fun and recreation.

People could bring Brobots with at/sensor jammer and beat 4tlt 9/10 times but then the forum would be complaining about the stale Meta yet again in a couple weeks.

I do think the fact you can put 4ys with Tlts + unhinged is an issue since it takes a Very specific number of things to counter, limiting the overall list choices (just like every list had to be built to.counter phantoms). Again, just going by the amount of success this list has had its quite obvious this is a very powerful combination..so would it be that far off to have a discussion whether ffg intended this or if, possibly, fhey made TLT just a tad too good/cheap? In my opinion both arguments have little to do whether the list can be countered, it's just about matchups and odds (other games would have tiers of list with different matchups and odds meaning that if a list is favored in most matchups it might be a tad too high on the power curve)

it's sensors/thrusters/jousters/fast ships in general

the thing with TLTs is that they have a range cap and are on slow ships. Even with the nice unhinged dial, Y-wings are incapable of post maneuver re-positioning.

what this means, in a nutshell, is that they're kind of screwed if you get into range 1 and they can't really stop you from getting there

except for obstacles

an obstacle is a TLT's best friend, it compensates for a lack of boost/roll (especially not a large base boost/roll ) and keeps the bad guys away. Nothing cuts down on a ship's maneuverability like action-denying, boost/roll blocking obstacles (well, not counting Dash, but the dude has a doughnuthole too) and nothing can abuse that quite like a 360 attack.

apart from specific upgrade counters, playing against a TLT requires expert navigation of obstacles and that's not a topic one can accurately cover in a single post. We need articles for that.

pretty sure you're disqualified from a tournament (and banned from the venue) if you pull a knife on your opponent's tlts

I find zero mention of knives in the tournament rules. Can you cite your source please ?

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(knife: new meta)

pretty sure you're disqualified from a tournament (and banned from the venue) if you pull a knife on your opponent's tlts

I find zero mention of knives in the tournament rules. Can you cite your source please ?

It was bound to happen.

The question is:

What are we all going to do about it?

I think I'm dusting off sensor jammer phantoms.

All hail the Emperor. The shuttle with some high agility aces will give them a BAD TIME. It presents them with some very tough choices.

It has also won the NOVA open in Virgina. 85 people.

4 TLT Y-wings didn't win Nova. Yes, it had TLTs, but it had one Gold w/TLT and one Rebel Operative (HWK) with TLT. It was supported by a Blue w/Tactician and 2 Z-95s. I find this squad a bit stronger, as it isn't going all in on TLTs, with other things to mess with the opponent.

we had a mean local TLT list that consisted of two BSPs (fire control systems, I believe), a Goldie w/tlt, and Roark w/tlt + recon

almost had it with TLT Miranda, Warden, and Goldie just running away like a complete pansy and popping conner nets in the way, but oh god you will believe a TLT can miss a B-wing 50% of the time

... This build is super easy to counter, they're PS 2 for christ's sake! Poe eats the, TIE swarm eats them, hell, generic interceptors with PTL eat them and the new TIE advanced with ATC and predator /devour/ them, you can often drop one before it even gets a shot off. And when the TAP comes out it too will eat them with its two auto evades and cheapness.

Well at the NOVA open, I think 8 of the top 16 had TLT's. Not sure but I would have thought a list so easy to counter would have not even made it that far. Or for that matter win the Tourney.

Well at the NOVA open, I think 8 of the top 16 had TLT's. Not sure but I would have thought a list so easy to counter would have not even made it that far. Or for that matter win the Tourney.

There's a difference between having a TLT and being a TLT spam list. Do you mean that half of the top sixteen were spam lists, or that they simply included one or more TLTs?

Well at the NOVA open, I think 8 of the top 16 had TLT's. Not sure but I would have thought a list so easy to counter would have not even made it that far. Or for that matter win the Tourney.

I don't think everyone was prepared for the volume of TLT lists so they didn't bring hard counters.

Daggers will be present at worlds.

pretty sure you're disqualified from a tournament (and banned from the venue) if you pull a knife on your opponent's tlts

I find zero mention of knives in the tournament rules. Can you cite your source please ?

I think they put the "etc." in the "Unsportsmanlike Conduct" section for that exact scenario. Of course, if they update the FAQ to exclude "etc." from things that say "etcetera only" then you might be tournament legal.

we had a mean local TLT list that consisted of two BSPs (fire control systems, I believe), a Goldie w/tlt, and Roark w/tlt + recon

almost had it with TLT Miranda, Warden, and Goldie just running away like a complete pansy and popping conner nets in the way, but oh god you will believe a TLT can miss a B-wing 50% of the time

*Large troll grin*

4x Dagger Squadron, 4x Enhanced Scopes. Move first and block, and still fire before PS 2.

I think you can go two routes when building lists to counter TLTs. Unfortunately for some, these two routes do not conform to what has been common lately, so people have to stop and rethink what they want to bring as an 'all comers' list.

The first route is to have repeated defensive upgrades on 1 or 2 elite ships. Sensor Jammer and Autothrusters are the big winners here, as we all already know.

The second route is to have more than 4 ships with anything PS3 or higher that can PS kill a TLT before it can fire. Again, common knowledge.

So what do you take to counter 4 TLT Y wings?

There is zero need to be so belligerent Celes.

Everyone seems to be getting awfully worked up over this. It's a game folks remember. It's played for fun and recreation.

Yeah sorry, I would also prefer to have a nuanced discussion about this. But judging by the amount of success the list has had Recently I don't think suggestions like 'bring sensor hammers and fast ship' are really doing the topic justice. It's not that simple.
People could bring Brobots with at/sensor jammer and beat 4tlt 9/10 times but then the forum would be complaining about the stale Meta yet again in a couple weeks.

I do think the fact you can put 4ys with Tlts + unhinged is an issue since it takes a Very specific number of things to counter, limiting the overall list choices (just like every list had to be built to.counter phantoms). Again, just going by the amount of success this list has had its quite obvious this is a very powerful combination..so would it be that far off to have a discussion whether ffg intended this or if, possibly, fhey made TLT just a tad too good/cheap? In my opinion both arguments have little to do whether the list can be countered, it's just about matchups and odds (other games would have tiers of list with different matchups and odds meaning that if a list is favored in most matchups it might be a tad too high on the power curve)

Okay, here are some of your "limited" choices, I just came up with them off of the top of my head so I apologize if the list is too short. All 'filler' is expected to be PS3+ generics.

Imperials:

7 TIE Swarm, using Obsidians and a named pilot of your choice

TIE FO with juke and comm? I haven't tested, just guessing

4 Storm Squadron Tie Advs with AC

Fel, Whisper, and filler of choice

Rhymer with cluster missiles and Jonus, plus filler of choice (Chance to use Ruthlessness!)

Redline

3 ATC Advance Aces

-Any mixture of the above

Rebels:

Z95 swarm, missiles or not, your choice (Definitely Talas with XX23 Blount in Wave 8)

Daggers (perhaps Biggs walks the Dags, depends on flying strategy )

Mixed rebel swarm of 5+ ships, perhaps using Roark to boost a PS1-2 generic

Poe Dameron

Corran Horn? Not sure as he is quite expensive, but able to dodge and heal. He can also take sensor jammer instead of FCS...

A Wings, all of them forever! Especially with Wired... And prockets... Mmmmmm....

Scum:

Z95 swarm, missiles or not, your choice, can add glitterstim as well.

Xizor swarm? Not sure, but Xizor can get AT SJ if he wants...

Dual IG - duh.

Laetin Ashera!! Hahaha, if only, if only.

Predator, Sensor Jammer, Autothrusters, and 3 agi are your core counters if going aces. Really people, the sky isn't falling, you just have to do a little extra work list building or -gasp- developing a strategy! I welcome this change.

we had a mean local TLT list that consisted of two BSPs (fire control systems, I believe), a Goldie w/tlt, and Roark w/tlt + recon

almost had it with TLT Miranda, Warden, and Goldie just running away like a complete pansy and popping conner nets in the way, but oh god you will believe a TLT can miss a B-wing 50% of the time

Hey. 3x Warden Squadron, 3x TLT, 3x Conner Net is 99 points. Initiative bid to move first, or Intel Agent to brake check with SLAM.

*Large troll grin*

4x Dagger Squadron, 4x Enhanced Scopes. Move first and block, and still fire before PS 2.

Funny I would like to see those dagger's chase the 3 hard Y-wings! All the while 1 getting hit 8 times each turn.

4 Storm Squadrons w/Accuracy Correct + Cluster Missiles would be interesting to see how it plays out.

we had a mean local TLT list that consisted of two BSPs (fire control systems, I believe), a Goldie w/tlt, and Roark w/tlt + recon

almost had it with TLT Miranda, Warden, and Goldie just running away like a complete pansy and popping conner nets in the way, but oh god you will believe a TLT can miss a B-wing 50% of the time

Hey. 3x Warden Squadron, 3x TLT, 3x Conner Net is 99 points. Initiative bid to move first, or Intel Agent to brake check with SLAM.

*Large troll grin*

4x Dagger Squadron, 4x Enhanced Scopes. Move first and block, and still fire before PS 2.

Funny I would like to see those dagger's chase the 3 hard Y-wings! All the while 1 getting hit 8 times each turn.

Pretty much haha.

Most of the counters I've been thinking of I haven't tried out and are just concepts. The problem is that in my area I'm the only heavy TLT user besides for a triple K Wing player.

4 Storm Squadrons w/Accuracy Correct + Cluster Missiles would be interesting to see how it plays out.

By the time they got into range. One of the 4 would be dead