It is my understanding that part of what made L5R such an incredible game experience was the extended community, represented, among other things, by the Clan Forums.

Many people at the bad guy Lair, aka Shinden Fu Leng (spiderclan.net) thought it was important to keep the community alive and kicking in the coming two years. Considering nobody knows when the next official statement about the state of the game will be issued, we need something to keep our mind and keyboards occupied.

I had the idea to combine our collective imagination and create a fan-made alternate setting. We don't know how FFG's L5R will look like, but I'm pretty sure it won't be a Spider-run one. Needless to say, even as a Spider fanatic, I totally agree this wouldn't be a great ''official'' setting.

As an alternate reality, however, I'm sure most of us can see the fun in twisting their favorite clan into a dark reflection of itself, even play a few RPG session while waiting for the real experience. And this is where you can come in. I have ideas and concepts about this world, but I'm sure you have better ones. If you are interested in participating in this group effort, join us at the Spider Clan forum and chime in with your crazy concepts.

There are only a few rules:

1. This is a cooperative work. Not every idea will be included, but I hope to make sure as much as possible is integrated into a logical world.
2. There is no bad ideas. We can make something work, I'm sure. Even if your idea doesn't make it into the final project, it might give someone else an even better idea, so fire away.
3. Kanpeki won , and every attempt at rebellion will fail, at least until the third day of thunder in a thousand year. The Great Clans submit and find a new place into Onyx or die.
4. At the moment, let's talk about the first years of the reign. Until this is solidified, there will be no time jump, but we will surely move the timeline forward one day if this gets popular.

Here's a direct link to the current discussion if you want.( http://spiderclan.net/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1824 )

Don't hesitate to ask any question on this thread or back at Shinden Fu Leng. We might like to play the bad guys, but we are a very friendly community.

Good news, while it is nowhere near completion, it appears the Onyx Empire is slowly taking form.

I copied below the state of this project for now, but please note that this is still a very rough draft. Many elements can change. I also invite you to leave your comments and suggestions either in this thread or back at Shinden Fu Leng.

Imperial Navy is created

Seiken demotes Kanpeki, but as a retcon, he just swallows it and leave court, leaving Shibatsu in charge officially of the Spider Clan.

Yoritomo Ichido opens a black scroll to defeat Yoritomo himself, destroying the Isles of Spice and Silk in the process.

Made aware of the resurgence of the Black Scrolls, Kanpeki sends his agents across Rokugan and beyond to recover as much of them as possible.

The Imperial Navy is destroyed by the creature that destroyed the Mantis Archipelago. All seems lost until Kanpeki and the Spider Clan intervenes and banish the creature, saving the coasts of Rokugan from destruction.

Seiken officially disbands the Mantis and the Tsuruchi, Moshi and Kitsune are back as the Wasp, Centipede and Fox.

Kanpeki discovers a few scrolls an dispatch Goju and Ninube infiltrators to find suitable samurais to convince them, under the right circumstances, to use them. Of course, he wants samurais from other Clans to unleash the wrath of Jigoku as to evade any suspicion.

Seiken is declared officially Emperor and disbands the bureaucracy. He also severly punishes the clans who sided with Shibatsu with severe political, military and economical sanctions, preventing the Crane to step up and replace the Otomo. The Shosuro and the Ikoma takes that role instead.

Inspired by the manipulation of aa Goju infiltrator, a Crane courtier opens a black scroll to enact revenge on the Shosuro and the Ikoma. Many among them, as well as many Doji are corrupted in the process. The end result is a devastated court system and a completly chaotic government all around Rokugan. Many blame Seiken (not openly of course) for his lack of foresight and disastrous first decision.

The Phoenix, after studying the consequences of the last black scroll, discovers that the deal between Daigotsu and Iweko is broken. They announce that Seiken's decision to demote Kanpeki is responsible for this.

Seiken marries Yauski Makoto. She puts into motion a plan to discredit Seiken even further, slowly poisoning him.

The Dragon Champion appears before Seiken and asks for forgiveness for the Progressists. Seiken demotes him as champion and puts the Kitsuki Daimyo in his place.

Skirmishes between the Lion and the Scorpion destroy part of the wall, freeing many monstruosities that rampages the land unchecked. Jade magistrates are unable to control it until the Order of the Spider steps in and kills all the onis. It appears only the Spider Clan has the tools to effectively keep Jigoku in check, a fact that will not be forgotten by the common samurai.

Seiken calls the Scorpion and Lion Champions and order them to commit seppuku for the fiasco with the wall. The Lion obeys but the Scorpion refuses and turn Ronin.

A Kitsu, convinced by her Ninube lover in disguise, opens a black scroll and ressurect the Fallen Lion Champion. The now undead Champion rampages through the Lion lands.

Seiken, horrified with the results, brands the Lion as a lost cause and orders the destruction of the Clan by its neighbours.

The now Ronin Scorpion Champion approaches Kanpeki. He believes Seiken's madness is caused by the Kolat and asks for his help to destroy that organization.

The Kolat masterminds meet and discuss Seiken's case. The poison seems to be too much effective, as if he was susceptible to madness. Probably a side effect of his close encounter with P'an Ku. The plan is changed to protect Rokugan and Makoto is tasked to deliver the antidote and stop providing the emperor with poison.

A scorpion, convinced by a goju infiltrator, opens a black scroll to learn more about the Kolat. Combined with the intel provided by Susumu Naishi, a elite force comprised of Scorpion and Spider warriors expose the organisation and kills most of their members. Makoto is arrested and put to trial, the Abbot is tainted horribly but escapes, now completly mad.

Seiken's mind breaks even further when he learns of his wife betrayal. The Phoenix, Crane and Scorpion (newly appointed) Champion confronts Seiken about his last decisions and ask him to reconsider. He orders the Seppun Guards present to execute them on the spot.

Taint is spreading faster than ever and many samurais turn to the Spider Clan for help against a growing number of monsters everywhere. The sympathy towards Fu Leng's clan grows higher. Now would be a good time to kill Machiko, but I'm not sure how.

Dragon closes all access to the mountains and isolate themselves.

The Phoenix starts a ritual designed to protect many of their assets and send them into the Heavens, protected from the taint and Seiken's madness. The ritual backfires horribly and the vast majority of the Phoenix, samurais, heimin and eta included, disappears without a trace.

Seiken recalls all the Imperial Legion to Toshi Ranbo and closes all contact with the outside world. It creates a shortage of rice.

A summit between the scorpion, crane, spider and unicorn clan takes place. The majority wants Shibatsu to replace his brother, by forceif necessary. Kanpeki declares the only one who will sit on the throne is himself and no others. Shibatsu realizes that Kanpeki will not back down and that his military might is necessary to remove Seiken from the throne. For the greater good of Rokugan, he proposes a deal to those present. Kanpeki will take the throne, but he will respect the autonomy of the Great Clans. He will also keep Jigoku in check and prevent further black scrolls to be opened. All clans accept, unwilling to test the alternative, a three-way war against the Spider Clan and Seiken.

The combined forces march on Toshi Ranbo and, thanks to the starving legions, manages to take the city and kills Seiken, but not before he orders his troop to burn the city to the ground in a futile attempt to stop the attackers.

Kanpeki reveals his heritage and takes the name Hantei XL. He reinstates the Lion Clan as a great clan and offers amnistice for anyone tainted but able to control himself. He also disbands the Seppun, we were almost all killed in the conflict and the Otomo, who joins other families, but mostly the Susumu and the bureaucracy is given to the Crane. Over time, the taint is somehow accepted by the populace and Kanpeki rules his empire with an iron grip. Maho is still somehow taboo, but its practitioners are no longer hunted, unless the taint is too stong and they lose control. A major shift in leadership in the majority of the clan also means Shourido is a much more accepted pratice, just as Dark Fortunes worship, although Bushido is still the dominant ideology, except among the Imperials and Spiders.

Imperial families: Daigotsu (magistrates and yojimbos), Chuda (advisors and shugenjas), Miya (Heralds, eventually secretly replaced by the Ninube) and Goju (Not really a secret, but a mystery serving as spies and assassins)

Spider Clan: Stewards of the Clans, comprised of the Susumu, tasked with overseeing the courts of each great Clans, the Guyshi, with the responsabilities of safeguarding the remaining black scrolls and keeping an eye of the other clan's shugenja and the Sahara, a family of bushis and duelist overseeing the different wars opposing the Great Clans.

Phoenix: Now only a minor Clan led by shugejas willing to study any sort of magic to understand what happened to the rest of the Clan and a few ''extremists'' who refused to use any sort of corruption, but also driven to understand the truth behind the dissapearance of ther clansmate.

Crab: Most of them commited Seppuku, attacked the new Emperor's army and failed or left the mainland for the colonies. Those that remains are only a minor clan.

Lion: Many were killed during the conflict, and some followed the Crab, but most of them, especially the Kitsu and the Ikoma are still loyal to the throne above all (Bushido and all), but the clan now serves a purpose closer to the Phoenix of old.

Crane: Perfection, throught taint or otherwise.

Scorpion: Their loyalty stands for the Empire as always. For now, Hantei XL is the best chance the Empire has to survive. They are prepared to act if this change, however.

Unicorn: They survived the conflict relatively unharmed and enjoy a great deal of power under Hantei XL, thanks to their status as the Spider oldest allies. It doesn't mean the Otaku are happy, but they also follow Bushido, which means to serve.

Dragon: At first they stay isolated, but over time, they rejoin the Empire. They believe their old mandate as Stewards of the Spider still applies. No matter how harsh and cruel the new regime, it will benefit from the counsel of the Dragon.

I suppose I'd have three questions. The first is about the Spider monks and the whole taint rift that was forming between them. The second is what actually happens to the monks? I guess the last one is about Kanpeki's daughter and what to do about her?

Can you tell this is Spider fan fic?

Can you tell this is Spider fan fic?

Certainly looks like it. I think I'd actually rather have Kanepki be at war with Rokugan for a while myself. That way we can have more of rift between the Imperial Spiders and the Kanepki ones. Plus it gives an additional advantage of appeasing the old Shadowlands players with a psudeo-Shadowlands faction who focus most on military with worrying too much about honor (although they would still need to be linked to it).

Can you tell this is Spider fan fic?

Certainly looks like it. I think I'd actually rather have Kanepki be at war with Rokugan for a while myself. That way we can have more of rift between the Imperial Spiders and the Kanepki ones. Plus it gives an additional advantage of appeasing the old Shadowlands players with a psudeo-Shadowlands faction who focus most on military with worrying too much about honor (although they would still need to be linked to it).

Well its certainly clear that it is not at all following the directions the clans all wanted to take and not referencing the spoiled onyx related art for ideas.

Can you tell this is Spider fan fic?

Certainly looks like it. I think I'd actually rather have Kanepki be at war with Rokugan for a while myself. That way we can have more of rift between the Imperial Spiders and the Kanepki ones. Plus it gives an additional advantage of appeasing the old Shadowlands players with a psudeo-Shadowlands faction who focus most on military with worrying too much about honor (although they would still need to be linked to it).

Well its certainly clear that it is not at all following the directions the clans all wanted to take and not referencing the spoiled onyx related art for ideas.

Well, this was never a secret. It is pretty much stated pretty much explicitly in the first post. It is, obviously, because I'm a Spider fan, but also because I wanted to go in a direction I was pretty sure FFG wouldn't go. Sure, I could have gone with something more inspired by the canon history, but why do something that might ressemble the official storyline that will be out in two years?

3. Kanpeki won , and every attempt at rebellion will fail, at least until the third day of thunder in a thousand year. The Great Clans submit and find a new place into Onyx or die.

Good luck to your project, but I just can't get behind the conditions placed on this Spider win.

I'd much rather see a place for those hardline anti-Daigotsu types to exist than not, and a literally divided empire would offer that in ways that this cannot.

I actually liked the start, the Kolat involvement and the mad emperor sounds promising.

But the Phoenix ritual is just terrible and an awful excuse to get rid of a major clan.
The Crab position is understandable but also a bad idea.

All in all I wonder how this can be considered an attempt to keep the community alive with 3 Great Clans disbanded.

Phoenix and Crab player will not like it and after the disbanding of the Mantis, what happened to them?

But the existence of the Spider Clan after Kanpeki on the Throne bugs me the most.

I would have expected the Spider clan to be disbanded.
Daigotsu replacing the Seppun, Chuda as spiritual advisers and Miya in their old role is a nice set up for the Imperial families.
However I would add the Susumu replacing the Otomo since the destruction of the imperial bureaucracy had such a devastating effect.

The Goju and Ninube could serve as imperial assassins and infiltrators and this looks like a good tool to keep the empire in check.
However here could be a bit of problems within the spider since the Shadow Dragon and Kanpeki are not on best terms.

This could be in fact the first crisis under his rule, perhaps leaving a permanent wound on his rulership.

I mean up to this point he is pretty much the Mary Sue Emperor, who can not fail...

Perhaps this is were he needs the Crab, asking desperately for help.

Kneeling for the Crab Clan Champion, which might remember the Phoenix of Shiba's deed and convince the Crab that Kanpeki indeed has the best of the empire in mind.

Think about the walk to Canossa.

The Spider Monks on the other hand could start a proper Monk a Brotherhood of Fu Leng modeled after the Brotherhood of Shinsei.

But the Phoenix ritual is just terrible and an awful excuse to get rid of a major clan.

The Crab position is understandable but also a bad idea.

All in all I wonder how this can be considered an attempt to keep the community alive with 3 Great Clans disbanded.

Phoenix and Crab player will not like it and after the disbanding of the Mantis, what happened to them?

Fun fact: The fate of the Phoenix in this storyline was actually the result of my shaking my head every time someone tried to find a way to shoehorn them into quasi-loyal service to Kanpeki's Empire.

Because neither carrot nor stick really seemed compelling.

Fun fact: The fate of the Phoenix in this storyline was actually the result of my shaking my head every time someone tried to find a way to shoehorn them into quasi-loyal service to Kanpeki's Empire.

Because neither carrot nor stick really seemed compelling.

Well, I had a short depiction of the a possible Crisis for Kanpeki, which I thought might sway the Phoenix. I would be interested in your opinion on that.

Fun fact: The fate of the Phoenix in this storyline was actually the result of my shaking my head every time someone tried to find a way to shoehorn them into quasi-loyal service to Kanpeki's Empire.

Because neither carrot nor stick really seemed compelling.

Well, I had a short depiction of the a possible Crisis for Kanpeki, which I thought might sway the Phoenix. I would be interested in your opinion on that.

It involves supporting a violent usurper who used Jigoku to rise to power and whose Clan has never shown the Phoenix any but the most grudging respect. A ruler who sees shugenja as tools to use to advance his agenda (as per his dealings with Kinuye) rather than as spiritual guides.

Remember the Shiba family motto? No sale.

Right, however the Phoenix had their fair share of Bloodspeaker (City of Blood) in their ranks and are not really immune against temptation.

Also outside of the Chuda they are probably the one clan with the best understanding of Maho.

I have always seen them as one of the more corruptible clans, so I can think of a few possibilities that the Phoenix might agree to Kanpeki's rule.

You grossly overinflate the Bloodspeaker presence- and moreover, nothing about the proposed storyline says Kinuye and other maho-happy clods AREN'T leading the Minor-Clan sized Phoenix remnants.

But Maho-slinging Phoenix Bloodspeakers are both not the Phoenix as we know them... and really, REALLY friggin' boring. From a narrative standpoint, they bring nothing to the table the Chuda don't do better. It's reflective of the wider problem, where the Spider have "Dark Mirrors" of just about everybody. They already do "_______ but EEEEEEEVIL" better than most.

I am quite baffled that you mention narrative, since the removal of the Phoenix via super strong magic is pretty much the lowest point you can go in terms of narrative.

It adds nothing it just removes. There is no personal conflict involved, no drama, just the resignation of the writer that they don'T know what to do with the Phoenix.

Having the ritual go horribly wrong tainting most of the Phoenix population would be more interesting for example.

Having the Phoenix reappear after the action and realizing that their absence and their petty wish to protect their own belongings lead to the demise of Rokugan as they know it.

The ritual could have also ripped the fabric of the world. Leaving a tear in reality. Creatures of Nothing flooding into the world unmaking what the Phoenix wanted to protect.

Or if you want to move a way from this ritual you can explore other options:

The phoenix stand against Kanpeki. They realize that they have lost, so they choose to die as pacifist. The armies of the Phoenix march to their demise facing the Spider who rip them apart in Battle of Undrawn Blades.

Seriously anything is more interesting as the 'I don't want this so I am out' solution which is currently in place.

The question is what kind of theme and story the Phoenix could or should be explore in the Onyx Empire and there should be an interesting one.

I can hardly believe that you perceive the Phoenix as so boring and useless, that the removal without outside interaction is the most compelling option in your mind.

Perhaps this is were he needs the Crab, asking desperately for help.

Kneeling for the Crab Clan Champion, which might remember the Phoenix of Shiba's deed and convince the Crab that Kanpeki indeed has the best of the empire in mind.

In contrast with the nature of the Crab player base, there is a conversation between Hida & Hantei, where Hida specifically tells him he's only willing to serve so long as the Hantei line remain the empire's strongest choice.

It's one of those details that made me stop and take notice while looking for other things, but haven't been able to find again on purpose.

I am quite baffled that you mention narrative, since the removal of the Phoenix via super strong magic is pretty much the lowest point you can go in terms of narrative.

It adds nothing it just removes. There is no personal conflict involved, no drama, just the resignation of the writer that they don'T know what to do with the Phoenix.

Spoken like one who hasn't got the whole story...

Rest assured, the Henshin hiding among the peasantry keeping classical Rokugani theology alive, and a few wandering priest/yojimbo duos have irons in the fire.

The question is what kind of theme and story the Phoenix could or should be explore in the Onyx Empire and there should be an interesting one.

I can hardly believe that you perceive the Phoenix as so boring and useless, that the removal without outside interaction is the most compelling option in your mind.

I can hardly believe that you honestly think this quick writeup is the entirety of what is planned.

The Phoenix as they were have no role as a formal part of Kanpeki's Empire.

That doesn't mean Phoenix characters have nothing to do.I came up with, like, three character concepts the day I decided to wipe 'em out as a functional Great Clan.

Given the basic provisos of this setting, nothing else has much- if any- appeal.

No, but if I read a text I expect that everything important is mentioned.

If I can't take the "quick write-up" at face value, perhaps you should have put a bit more work and effort into it.

Having said that... At the current point I am confused, that the purpose of this thread is.

Do you want feedback? Do you want people to get involved?

From my perspective the story of the Phoenix, the Crab, the Mantis and the Spider is bad.

• The Spider are Mary Sues who take the empire without effort.
• The Crab do nothing until they all commit sepukku.
• The Phoenix are removed from the setting by an amazing Deus Ex Machina event.
• The Mantis are disbanded and never heard of again.

If you have already solutions for all of these things...

Then please go ahead ad them to the write-up, because that seems to be the document which should me draw into the setting.

I really think Iam not happy with the Spider and the Phoenix. I also ever saw the phoenix as very easy to corrupt. the reason is that they are driven with the thought to have to understand everthing of the field of Kami and Magic.

Actually I reall would like the clean Maho option and let it backfire. I mean I find it far more compelling to see desperate phoenix which no longer can enforce the parcifisim since they face extinction from the Spider forces which standing at their door and using the only way left to them. They find a way to cast seeminly clean maho and destroy the enemy army only to notice far to late what happend and become tainted

There are many ways which I would like more than remove the phoenix from the setting cause I see them as important part in it. The reason for this is easy the Phoenix are the clan you turn for when you like spells and Magic. Also they provide a very intresting concpet of protection and serving with the Shiba family. lso the cln is flexible cuse you can play a more classic and pragamtic Isawa, like the founder actually was himself, a men who sees the Kami as tools to achieve his goal, but you also can play a parcifist one who more resembles the Asahina line. Actually while all a spiritual guides some have different views on it than others even in the sam family as it is shown by the current elemental council where Mast of Void and Fire often have different opinions on the correct approach to a problem.

Removing this clan is nothing I want and therefore this is a major thing to actually not play the setting instead of getting involved of it.

for the Spider I think the setting is painting their way to easy. The actually don´t suffer and defeat or setback or even a minor conflict of their beliefs. While I want them to win I don´t want them to do it in such an easy way. I want to see a struggle and drama which ends with their win but as it is now I don´t even like the outcome cause the way was so bad. I really miss the hard conflicts with the Lion and the usage of their really darker way and strategy to subdue their enemies befor claiming the throne.
What I actually see here for the Spider is what happend after the destroyer war with them. Yeah you can be a great clan but we cripple any meaningful and interesting way to act and remove all the really cool things like maho etc making you a slightly darker version of a merger of scropion and Dragon.

therefore I want a war i want to see them use their dark methods and triumph on the fact that they do what others refuse to do and grab at hand. This also would provide very intresting struggles with their humanity and how far some people inside of the spider are able to bear this way. But just letting them get the throne without and actuall drama I find this would be to easy and boring

I apologize. I now realize my first post should have been clearer. What I poster here is more of a summary of the work done so far, while the specifics and the discussions concerning them could be found in the Spider Clan forum.

However, the comments you all made are exactly what I was hoping. No element of the timeline is set in stone and what I am aiming for is of course, a setting in which Kanpeki rules, but also something a good portion of the fan base can enjoy as an alternative setting. (In a way similar to KYD, Iron Rokugan or Rokugan 3000).

I'm on my phone right now, so I'll come back later with more info, but I really want to hear everyone's ideas and preferences about the Phoenix, the Crab, the Mantis and the other cases that were brought up.

In the meantime, I'll think about a way to make the Spider suffer a lot more for the throne.

don't get me wrong, i'm all for this project... on the spider forum. but over here you're going to get two things:

1. hate

2. mockery

edit: to clarify this somewhat: the general populace of l5r fans already dislike the spider. the potential for getting rid of the spider are energized that opinion in ways i had not predicted, bringing the spider hate to a level i haven't seen since goddesses. combine that with the crankiness that the onyx storyline brings up? its a fun exercise for us, and if you'd thrown it in the imperial histories 3 thread i started, as one of many different alternate timelines, fine. but implying that what the community needs to stay alive is MORE spider, specifically a spider victorious setting? i mean. yeah. see above.

Yeah, not the best choice of title I must admit. In my defense, when I created this topic, you're own ''Imperial Histories'' didn't exist. However, since this was my first post, it took a while before it went live...

3. Kanpeki won , and every attempt at rebellion will fail, at least until the third day of thunder in a thousand year. The Great Clans submit and find a new place into Onyx or die.

Good luck to your project, but I just can't get behind the conditions placed on this Spider win.

I'd much rather see a place for those hardline anti-Daigotsu types to exist than not, and a literally divided empire would offer that in ways that this cannot.

It was discussed that the colonies could become a place for the anti-kanpeki gang to retreat and regroup. I must admit I'm not sure how big of a threat they should be, however. Too big, and we end up with a setting that ressemble maybe a bit too much KYD. The fact Kanpeki ruled pretty much unopposed was, I thought, a good way to differentiate the two alternate settings.

A good way to make the rebels important and strong, while not an immediate threat to his rule would be gaijins. The geographical realities of the colonies mean a vast majority of the gaijin threats willing to invade Rokugan would have to face the samurais in the colonies first. It would also give an incentive for Kanpeki not to eliminate them. Even if they raided the frontiers in a sort of anti-shadowlands way, they would still have their usefulness to the Onyx Empire as a buffer against outside threats.

No, but if I read a text I expect that everything important is mentioned.

If I can't take the "quick write-up" at face value, perhaps you should have put a bit more work and effort into it.

Having said that... At the current point I am confused, that the purpose of this thread is.

Do you want feedback? Do you want people to get involved?

From my perspective the story of the Phoenix, the Crab, the Mantis and the Spider is bad.

• The Spider are Mary Sues who take the empire without effort.
• The Crab do nothing until they all commit sepukku.
• The Phoenix are removed from the setting by an amazing Deus Ex Machina event.
• The Mantis are disbanded and never heard of again.

If you have already solutions for all of these things...

Then please go ahead ad them to the write-up, because that seems to be the document which should me draw into the setting.

I chose many of the events in the current timeline because many elements of the upcoming Onyx edition bothered me and many people. The concept of Jigoku seals (that appeared to be nothing more than a badly chosen plot device to allow the Spider to conquer Rokugan) and how many Clans were expected to accept the Spider rule are just examples. They were also selected to acknowledge some of the most recent story prizes in a cool way (the opening of the black scoll by the Mantis, rhe Abbot's corruption, etc.)

I must admit, now, I'm unsure about what to do with the Mantis and the Crab. The Tsuruchis, Moshis and Kitsunes would still exist, as well as many Yoritomo who weren't present on the islands. Would Daigotsu restore the clan? Allow the remaining minor clans to join other clans or form a new alliance? Would the yoritomo instead abandon the mainland and join the rebels in the colony. Those are all possibilities and everyone's opinion is welcome.

FInally, I think I might have found a way for the Crab to take part in the timeline and make the Spider's life even more difficult. Seiken hated the Spider. If, in addition to imposing severe restrictions on the progressists clans, he would also support any military and political moves made against the clan, the Crab would jump to the occasion. Unfortunatly, in a possible story twist, with the deal broken, many crabs would be corrupted in the war (a sacrifice many of them are ready to make), and Seiken, driven by madness, would begin to suspect the followers of Hida can no longer be trusted. He would send inquisitors and Jade Magistrates in their lands, with the mission to exterminate any samurai suspected of harboring the taint.

This could degenerate quickly and the crab would end up having to face two enemies: the Spider and the Throne.

Like always, these are just ideas and feel free to expand upon them or propose something new entirely.

With all due respect to the OP, as you clearly have as much love of the storyline as anyone, I'm seeing a contradiction of thought here. This may just be my reading, but it sounds as though it's made intentionally distinct from the canon storyline so as to avoid confusion with the setting as of the FFG relaunch, but you also sound as though you strongly doubt FFG might open the story with the Onyx Edition story as it was planned. If you think they won't do this, why not keep the setting as close to what the players of each clan wanted to see, what they voted to see? I guess I just don't see the point if there is no chance FFG simply accepts the setting in its current state and moves forward with it.

To look at it from the other side, then, would it truly be such a shock for FFG to open the game in media res , and make the setting match as closely as possible Onyx Edition as it currently stands, with perhaps some streamlining for new player accessibility? It would be a very different introduction to Rokugan for these players, sure, but is that necessarily a bad thing if they're not already familiar with the pre-Onyx setting? Of greater concern, I believe, would be the players who are already deeply invested in the canon, and think it's terrible, but the vast majority I've found deal with moments they dislike in favor of the greater pictre. I for one thought the circumstances of the Spider's acceptance as a Great Clan were dubious at best, but have swallowed it and now am very fond of the friction between the Spider who wish to remain faithful members of the Empire, and those who wish to overthrow it and rebuild Rokugan in the image of Jigoku. This is a very dark opener, but one with hope (but no guarantee) of a brighter future, as many of the other clans voted to oppose Kanpeki, and I believe I speak for the majority if not the entirety of the online Unicorn playerbase when I say our clan would sooner commit mass-seppuku than submit to an Empire ruled by Kanpeki. I think it would be far more interesting if we saw what the actual war for the throne looked like, a time when honor and duty are put to the test, and no samurai, no matter how honorable, can truly be trusted.

Samurai fiction is frequently tragic, and just because the Empire is facing oblivion, or at least a redefinition of what it means to be Rokugani, does not mean the canon need be tossed aside; in fact, this may just be the perfect time to introduce such a twist on the storyline.

Also, if canon is upheld by FFG, the Mantis are disbanded and we're left with eight factions, a nice even number to open the new game with.

Also, if canon is upheld by FFG, the Mantis are disbanded and we're left with eight factions, a nice even number to open the new game with.

I don't think that getting really jacked up while saving everyone elses' behinds equates to being disbanded.

And that hasn't even happened yet. We won't know what is cannon until the game comes out or FFG releases fiction.

Also, if canon is upheld by FFG, the Mantis are disbanded and we're left with eight factions, a nice even number to open the new game with.

I don't think that getting really jacked up while saving everyone elses' behinds equates to being disbanded.

And that hasn't even happened yet. We won't know what is cannon until the game comes out or FFG releases fiction.

Temporarily disbanded, with the emphasis that they would get another stronghold after the clan determines which path to take. Would be an interesting thing to keep if FFG decided to go with the plan.