I ain't convinced by the /fo yet. The original ties had a lot of means by which to improve on their poor attack value. I'm not seeing anywhere near that quality with the /fo. I spent last night 'shooting' at poe with them, to very little effect. Now I'm not saying i don't like the new dial, because I sure do. And i'm not saying that those new pilot talents aren't interesting, because they sure are. What I'm saying is this:

~~~When solely considering the primary task of any x-wing ship - being able to down enemy ships - the /fo may well fare the worst out of any ship in the game~~~

- The generics are priced at the same point as dark curse, backstabber, night beast - all three far superior ships. Slap an ept on there at ps4 and you're competing with mauler and queen Howlie herself. Omega ace with ptl looks great, so i reserve the right to do a k-turn on this, but even here, you're talking pimped bomber, doomshuttle, colzet territory. And of course, if you swarm, you probably won't bother with the new black & whites at all.

- A-wing is an obvious point of comparison, and yet it has a few big advantages over it. Boost sure gives the basic prototype an attack advantage, but go up to generic greens, and you have a host of lovely double ept options with which to bring the pain. You also have p-rockets if you want a Real Nasty Threat. /Fo's sure have made A-wings look a lot meaner, I'll say that for them.

- Tie adv. is so superior in attack it doesn't really seem worth discussing.

- Scyks get heavy upgrades

- Scum Z's get feedback array, glitterstim, missiles and N'dru

- Bombers get GUNZ

- Punishers get MOAR GUNZ with added fcs/ac, etc etc.

- TAPs get action economy, boost, missile slot and the inquisitor.

- don't let the hwks 1 red die fool ya, it's got a nasty bite (peck??) these days.

- the rebel Z's are, I think, the only ship that can challenge the /fo for the red wooden spoon, but even here you get incredible joust efficiency and alpha strike potential.

So to summarise: cool ship, really interesting pilot skills, pimping paintjob, and Omega ace may well live up to his name. As new releases come out, maybe the /fo will demonstrate some great synergy. And I'm sure we'll see a single /fo popping up here and there in quite a few lists... But in terms of attack power, the /fo may well be the empire's nadir.

Even among a ship list in which 50% are 2-attack ships(!) the /fo comes in dead last place. Maybe that's okay - after all, some ship somewhere in the game has to have that role. And going by the empire's strange insistence on pumping out more and more ships with low attack, it's not a great surprise that that title would go to some sort of tie. I just didn't expect the empire's newest shiniest toy to take the dubious honour!

And please, if you can manage it, spare me the tired 'sky is falling' tropes. Unless, that is, you can prove that the scyk, adv., Tie, etc., is inferior in attack, and that I am therefore being a chicken little - then I will wear my meme of shame with aplomb

HWKs? one point attack one point more expensive for one extra hull? just saying...

Hi swedge! Okay, but I'm talking about the ship as an actual unit, and what damage it can maximally put out, not a theoretical comparison, where we compare ships that will never ever see the light of day, such as a naked spice runner. Hwks have tlt and recon specialist for 25 points - a very nice attack That's not comparable to a /fo at all.

I have to disagree, if only a little. I flew against a swarm consisting of Epsilon Leader, Howlrunner with PTL, Black Squad with PTLX2, and Obsidian SquadX2 and got wrecked. when three ties have focus evade and no stress, the two that don't are bumping you, and the one that you can shoot without two tokens is at range 3, its hard to take them down before you lose a significant amount of firepower.

That being said I cringe at the thought of the generics, while so far I've been loving the T-70 generics.

That's an interesting squad and, like I said, I do think that we'll see a single /fo popping up in lists. Epsilon leader is the obvious choice here (personally I am looking at a ptl omega ace as a complement to an echo+whisper list!). But the rest of your opponent's squad was classic tie fighter; I'd take it as evidence for my conclusion, rather than against.

There's one /fo that you might take to actually do some damage (omega ace), and only one. Every other iteration of the ship scores at the bottom rung of attack power. Remember, I do think the basic ship has some great features that could complement certain lists: none of them, however, are related to doing damage!

The generics have one of the best dials in the game. The fact that they can S loop and then 2 turn? Amazing. A skilled pilot should never be out of arc with these bad boys. Yeah they cost 3 points more but you get a shield, an upgraded dial, and if you really want it, a TL. Sure they won't have the swarm ability of 12 point ties, but they definitely have their place. So while you might not always do damage, 2 attack dice constantly helps widdle a ship down that already probably spent it's tokens from your other ships.

It is the new shiny and it will find its way into lists. This ideation of the TIE falls more into a support role rather than a swarmer. They are the best blockers in game for now. They fill the line man portion of many lists better than the orginals, can still possibly be one shot but much more unlikely.

It is the new shiny and it will find its way into lists. This ideation of the TIE falls more into a support role rather than a swarmer.

Good point - the epsilon does strike me as a great support ship - but none of the other /fo's do.

They are the best blockers in game for now. They fill the line man portion of many lists better than the orginals, can still possibly be one shot but much more unlikely.

Disagree with this - bugzapper Z's, adv slam warden, sigma, the 20% cheaper academy, and A-prototype are all better blockers, for different reasons.

The TIE/fo unseats the TIE interceptor and A-wing for best dial in the game.

Yes it does. It also unseats the Z-95 for worst attack in the game, which was why I posted this topic.

can't say I really disagree (although the comparison to scyk? ha! the scyk is still far and away in a worse spot)

given the faction has tie fighters, imperial A-wings probably won't see spam (except by me, but I'm crazy and also run 5 a-wings) (compare to the scyk, which I simply don't touch )

so far, gotta say Zeta ace is a goddamn standout of an awesome (and cheap!) pilot

he blocks so bad, and even if he doesn't block, he rocks

the only other Fo I' m really itching to fly is the unreleased Omega Leader. The man/woman/killer-robot-thing is insane for an incredibly modest cost

Wait, if TIE/lns are only good with Howlrunner support, why would you run TIE/fos without Howlrunner support? Without Howlrunner, the generic TIEs seem even but with different roles since TIE/lns can block better but TIE/fos are more resiliant.

Sure, Howl makes any squad better. But there's also backstabber, scourge and mauler who can all deliver serious damage at a low cost. The fact that these four ties have decent attack capabilities is my point, though; certainly the 'inferior' tie fighter has lots more options to increase its attack, even without considering swarm efficiency, than the /fo.

As does every other ship in the game, in terms of their attack power, as far as I can see.

FO ships are NOT Imperial. They work with Imperial forces for the sake of the game, but they are not Imperial.

FO ships are NOT Imperial. They work with Imperial forces for the sake of the game, but they are not Imperial.

They are. The Galatic Empire and First Order are both part of the Imperial faction.

I like FOs as Vessery escorts. And really, between the TIE, the FO, Bomber, and V1, the choice will really be down to preference.

Plus, Juke + Comms Relay will be annoying.

I've been saying for ages the new ships generics Arnt worth taking over the original, and the aces tend to fall into the same trap as named headhunter's they are expensive pilots in easy to kill ships.

They'll function the same way that prototype pilots do when I'm list building. If I'm flying regular TIE Fighters and I have 3 extra points, I'll upgrade to an FO. Howlrunner and 6 Academies is 90 points, a lot of room for FO's there.

And that Super Wingman guy looks ******* nuts. You can't tell me he won't benefit a classic Howlrunner swarm immensely.

For the better dial, extra health, TL action, and Tech slot they're worth the extra 3 points. I don't know if 6 of them would be better than 8 regular TIEs, but same with the Prototype Pilot.

This is why I don't think Cartel Spacers are overcosted. For what you get over a TIE or a Z-95 they're worth the extra 2 points.

I totally agree - I ran Epsilon Leader last night, and it was fun k-turning my whole formation and wiping the stress! (Although you still lose a round of actions, as the stress-wipe happens at the beginning of the combat phase.) However, my point still stands regarding their offensive power: it's lowwwww.

So yes, I think this might be a pretty good swarm now:

“Howlrunner” (21) TIE Fighter (18), Stealth Device (3)

“Epsilon Leader” (19)

Academy Pilot (12) x 5

But again, there's only one /fo in there, and it's along for its support role. Personally, I think I'd still rather run something like this, for it's punch:

“Howlrunner” (18)

Academy Pilot (12) x 4

Backstabber (16)

Mauler Mithel (18) TIE Fighter (17), Crack Shot (1)

Finally, the difference between this swarm and an majority-fo one with howlie along is pretty extreme, say:

Epsilon Squadron Pilot (15) x 4

“Howlrunner” (21) TIE Fighter (18), Stealth Device (3)

“Epsilon Leader” (19)

You're talking one less ship and two less 2+ attack threats. You won't miss those attacks as much going up against tlt spam or decimators, but against a high agility target, stabber and mauler can be lifesavers. My money is on the old skool swarm everytime!

Not really sure I understand the argument here.

Considering it has 2 red dice and a great dial, this ship should be able to fire upon a target every round if flown well. Additionally, it should be easy to position it at range 1 for bigger bang, or range 3 for survivability.

Will it kill a B-wing in one round? Of course not, but it can certainly whittle away at a B-wing round after round whilst staying out of its guns.

Hi Rapscallion!

~~~When solely considering the primary task of any x-wing ship - being able to down enemy ships - the /fo may well fare the worst out of any ship in the game~~~

That's the argument. Every other ship on 2-attack has lots of options to improve upon it - Y, A, K, Z, Tie, Bomber, Punisher, TAP, Advanced and Scyk all have options - either through pilot abilities, title cards, upgrades or secondaries - to do something about it. The /fo (aside from omega ace) doesn't. Ergo, the Empire's latest ship currently has the worst attack in X-wing.*


* I'm not saying that this means it is a bad ship. It has lots of cool support stuff and probably the best dial in the game!

I suppose if you look at in a vacuum the FO/Tie does have poor firepower but there's no reason you can't run Howlrunner in the same list and although situation the fact that you can Target Lock does mean the FO can bump of its firepower

I like FOs as Vessery escorts. And really, between the TIE, the FO, Bomber, and V1, the choice will really be down to preference.

Plus, Juke + Comms Relay will be annoying.

Not a bad idea! Dirt cheap target locking ships are perfect Vessery escorts! Hell, throw VI on Vessery, strip those shields/tokens off with a HLC salvo, then hit the target with three crits. Going to have to try this out. 33 points left...Stele? Juno? Epsilon and VI Omega?

Hi Rapscallion!

~~~When solely considering the primary task of any x-wing ship - being able to down enemy ships - the /fo may well fare the worst out of any ship in the game~~~

That's the argument. Every other ship on 2-attack has lots of options to improve upon it - Y, A, K, Z, Tie, Bomber, Punisher, TAP, Advanced and Scyk all have options - either through pilot abilities, title cards, upgrades or secondaries - to do something about it. The /fo (aside from omega ace) doesn't. Ergo, the Empire's latest ship currently has the worst attack in X-wing.*

* I'm not saying that this means it is a bad ship. It has lots of cool support stuff and probably the best dial in the game!

eh, I'd say TL + focus PTLs are definitely a thing it was to give it extra damage

not to mention the stated goal of "being able to down enemy ships" is exceptionally vague. If Zeta blocks soontir and leaves him on naked green dice, does Whisper really deserve all the credit?

not to mention the stated goal of "being able to down enemy ships" is exceptionally vague. If Zeta blocks soontir and leaves him on naked green dice, does Whisper really deserve all the credit?

Bang on the money Fickle! You're right of course, but at the same time, isn't it a good idea to look at the individual elements that make up a ship occasionally, to see what makes it tick? And isn't the range of damage-increasing options that a ship has, when being built, a very important part of that? Isn't that even more important when that ship has two attack, and therefore has diminishing returns against certain agile enemies?

It's true that this doesn't tell the whole story, and the /fo has a lot going for it, but I did think it was an interesting fact that hadn't been talked about yet. For example, people have been comparing the /fo to the A-wing an awful lot, but it turns out on this analysis that the /fo is relatively toothless compared to that ship (and a lot of rebel players dismiss the A-wing for being too ineffective in attack). I certainly could be wrong on this (it would hardly be a surprise to me!), but I haven't heard the why of it yet.

So I'd say that yes, it is important to consider that the /fo is the only 2-attack ship that doesn't have the means to punch above it's 2-red weight*, when considering its overall value to your squad.

*The 23pt Omega ace being the honorable exception!