Difference between assig and apply?

By wilczur, in Warhammer Invasion Rules Questions

We have troble to understand when player can take action between battlefield phase. Is this scenario below correct:

4. Battlefield phase

Active player declares attackers, and decides which of his opponent’s zones they are attacking.

Player B attack from his battlefild 3 x UNIT with summary power total 7

Actions may be taken by either player. - no one take action

Defending player declares defenders.

Player A declare that VALKIA THE BLOODY to be defender.

Actions may be taken by either player.

After player A play SEDUCED BY DARKNESS on the one of the attacing unit.

Damage is counted and assigned, without yet being applied.

Player A applied 2 damage to 1 of attacing unit

Player B applied 4 damage to VALKIA and 3 damage to quest zone

Actions may be taken by either player.

Player A take action from VALKIA Spend 2 resources to move any number of damage on this unit to a target corrupted unit. He move that 4 damage to corrupted unit of player B

Damage is applied and its effects resolve. Characters leave play if they are out of hit points. Burn tokens are placed on the capital if necessary.

VALKIA LiVES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Actions may be taken by either player.

Is that correct?

No. Once damage has been applied that equals or exceeds a units total HP they are removed from play. This happens before there is an opportunity for players to take actions.

Dormouse is correct. When the damage is assigned, it is in the "air" and Valkia cannot use her power yet. One the damage is applied, Valkia is dead and can no longer use her power. If Valkia only took 2 damage, she would survive and then she could use her power.

Incidentally, you could play Seduced by Darkness as soon as the attacker declares the Attack Zone, and corrupt one of the attacker's units before he declares Attackers. If you play it after he declares attackers, as happened in your game, the attacker still does his damage.

Hurdoc has the right idea regarding the tactics. If you corrupt the unit in his BZ that could put your Valkia over, before it is declared as an attacker. When he follows through with his attack you then transfer all applied damage (which now is not enough to kill Valkia) to that corrupted unit.

thx a lot 4 answer

Are you sure about that answer? Why would the rules have an entire section speaking about the application of damage if you can't use abilities like that? That is why you are allowed to add extra damage to creatures. In the example, to be sure she dies you would have to make sure that you added enough damage to kill her even if they use her ability.

Most of that wasn't really an argument for my case sorry.

I guess it comes down to - where in the rules does it say that since it explicitly has a step to "Apply" damage.

I'm sorry you've lost me. Yes I am sure about the answer though. Assigned damage is not applied damage. It is potential damage. The ability to take actions after potential damage has been assigned but not yet applied is to allow for numerous effects that can reduce damage, redirect damage, boost a units HP, or use tactics or actions that depend on damage not yet being dealt, or originate from or interact with a unit that will be forced out of play after damage has been applied.

When damage is applied any unit with damage counters equal to or greater than their HP are removed from play. There is no opportunity for player actions until after this has taken place.If Valkia's ability was a Forced effect that moved any damage on her an argument could be made, but it isn't.

We already know from Nate's ruling on Stubborn Refusal that damage may not be moved until after it has been applied because it hasn't successfully been dealt to that unit yet. Valkia's ability is the same.

Got it. I wasn't looking at the damage as not applied yet, that threw me off. Thanks!

No problem. You aren't the first one who has made the mistake thinking assigned damage and applied damage were actually the same thing. The rules for the game are simple... deceptively so. IT is easy to fly through them and miss subtle points, especially when you aren't familiar with all the card effects yet.

My suggestion is read through the rules and watch the tutorial. Play a game or three skim the rules and then play a few more games. Before your next session read through the rules more in-depth. Keep the rules handy and refer to them any time you have a question. This is how you'll get the nuances of the game down. When a FAQ is released, keep it handy during your play sessions. Soon you'll have the basic rules committed to memory and a lot of the more advanced concepts and card interactions will come a bit more naturally.