so i just read 4 pages on raider discussion and not a single mention of a raider with expanded launchers? this thing is a monster if you are going first, zoom it up last, activated it first next turn boom 4 black 2 blue from a tiny ship....that is vsd amount of dice! and can still have ordinance teams! and concentrate fire when it really matters! what a monster!

so i just read 4 pages on raider discussion and not a single mention of a raider with expanded launchers? this thing is a monster if you are going first, zoom it up last, activated it first next turn boom 4 black 2 blue from a tiny ship....that is vsd amount of dice! and can still have ordinance teams! and concentrate fire when it really matters! what a monster!

The question at that point is whether you think that would be better than a GSD... because at 57 points, a Raider I with expanded launchers will cost 1 more point than a naked GSD I. That's two more dice out the front, but a lot less out the sides, plus less hull, no room for ACMs, etc. The increase to speed and Ion slot makes it an interesting trade-off, but I'm not sure it's a point better than a GSD I at the end of the day.

so i just read 4 pages on raider discussion and not a single mention of a raider with expanded launchers? this thing is a monster if you are going first, zoom it up last, activated it first next turn boom 4 black 2 blue from a tiny ship....that is vsd amount of dice! and can still have ordinance teams! and concentrate fire when it really matters! what a monster!

While it's very possible to do that, there are a few issues I have with the strategy. First, it's dependent upon getting initiative. Secondly, adding Expanded Missile Launchers and Ordnance Teams to the Raider-I increases its cost by nearly 40%, without any other upgrades. That's a pretty big ratio. Thirdly, your opponent will certainly be gunning to kill this thing, and with having comparable defensive capabilities to a CR90, yet having to get to close range to be effective, is going to make it very hard to deliver that payload without being blown to bits yourself. And, finally, while those black dice are going to hit hard, a brace and a redirect will be enough to dull that blow. It'll require either another ship hitting simultaneously to take advantage of the used defensive tokens or to disable the tokens via Overload Pulse or some other thing. And if you're going to put the effort of tag-teaming in the first place, it is far more cost effective to make the Raider be the disabling ship, and let the other ship, such as a Demolisher, be the primary hitter.

All that being said, yes, it is a very dangerous little spear, if you can set it up right. The key would be, as mentioned, to make sure the enemy's defensive tokens were already used, forcing them to burn them or take the hits to the face. That would require you to, rather than rushing it in, to hold the Raider back a bit, where its Evades will keep it alive, and then use a Navigate to boost it up in speed and simultaneously strike with another ship. Of course, that's difficult to do when you move after shooting.

For those reasons, I've been mostly considering the advantages of using the Raider-II, as the Ion weapons have a longer range and more utility purpose, which play to the Raider's strengths and weaknesses better, in my opinion.

Im actually not sure if i like this thing purely because of its defense tokens. It has close range guns galore...not as bad as the Glad but its still pretty bad about it...and its primary defense is dodge?

The CR90 atleast can shimmy shields around for when it dives in for the kill and bad dice didnt kill. Raider cant even do that because Brace isnt anywhere near as powerful in majority of situations. Odds are you are going to take 2-4 damage unless it was a HEAVY dice pool being thrown at you, brace may technically stop as much damage as shimmying shields around but it wont keep your hull intact.

Raider will always either fire half of its dice, or never dodge. That alone makes me kinda not like it.

I see this thing dying very quick. Personally, i'd ignore it until it got close just because it needs to be close to do real damage and odds are im not going to hurt it reliably at a distance anyway. Once it got close, focus fire the crap out of it.

That's why I see using it as a utility ship. Either going after enemy bomber groups and locking them down, or dealing out Overload Pulse shots. In either case, it stays at a range where its evades are useful, and, even better, your opponent will be more likely to go after your bigger ships than the small fry. If they do decide to go after the small fry, that frees up your bigger ships from attack, which I find a nice trade off.

the way i see its defence tokens based on its speed clicks is to hang back at low speed to use the evades and turn line up a run then up the speed and dive in to a flank/rear guns blazing using the brace to live long enough.

afterwards it speeds off again to show rear facing for more shields before slowing down again for a sharp turn and a turn 6 second pass. adjusting its speed frequently will be what this ship does

I believe everyone agrees the squadron is "engaged" by the ruling on the card. Also, I believe everyone agrees that by being engaged, a squadron must attack an engaged squadron, "if possible". The engagement rule is restricting what an engaged squadron may do, including attack. Does it state anywhere in the engagement rule that an "engaged squadron may attack a ship"? There is no statement to that effect. The rule only states that an engaged squadron must attack an engaged squadron. The "if possible rather than a ship" does not state an engaged squadron may attack a ship. Technically there should be a comma after "if possible," to qualify that there are situations that an attacking squadron may not be able to attack. In situations where it is "not possible" for an engaged squadron to attack an engaged squadron, it does not state it may attack a ship instead, it just can't

Tycho Celchu has a specific exception to the engagement rule that allows him to attack a ship when engaged.

It states that an engaged squadron may attack a ship if it is not possible to attack a squadron it is engaged with. There is currently no situation where you can't attack a squadron you are engaged with. The only reason that rule is written like that is for this very title. They knew ahead of time they'd put in an upgrade(s) that would allow ships to engage squadrons, so they left themselves a loophole.

Read the title, "Enemy squadrons at distance 1 are treated as if they are engaged by 2 additional squadrons, even if they are not currently engaged."

"Are treated as if" is the key phrase here. The phrase does not imply that there are 2 "ghost" squadrons floating around. It doesn't matter where the "ghost" squadrons are. It says that you treat enemy squadrons at distance 1 from the ship as if they were engaged by 2 more squadrons, even if there are non currently engaging them. They don't exist, and the "2 additional" is likely something related to the rules for the squadron pack, as surmised by others in this thread.

Correct me if I'm wrong, here, "distance 1" means it's the squadron side of the range ruler right?

If that's the case, that Raider herself will be in firing range of the snubs therefore it's open season for the snubs.

Now, looking at the rules being mentioned in this thread, this is my understanding -

• Scenario 1 - Raider escorted by TIEs

1. Imperial Raider, escorted by Imperial TIEs, gets into Range 1 of enemy snubs, those snubs get locked by the Raider.
2. Now Imperial snubs move in to engagement range of enemy snubs during the Squadron Phase and/or Squadron command.
3. When it's time for the Rebel snubs to attack during the Squadron phase and/or Squadron command, those Rebel snubs MUST COMMIT AN ATTACK TO IMPERIAL TIES AND NOT THE RAIDER

• Scenario 2a - Raider NOT escorted by TIEs

1. Imperial Raider gets into Range 1 of enemy snubs thereby locking them
2. In the Squadron phase, Imperial player sends in TIEs into Range 1 of Rebel snubs
3. When Rebel snubs conducts attack, it MUST shoot at those TIEs

• Scenario 2b - Raider NOT escorted by TIEs

1. ​Imperial Raider gets into Range 1 of enemy snubs thereby locking them
2. No TIEs were moved into engagement zone of Rebel snubs
3. When the Rebel snubs attack, they SHOULD/MUST attack the Raider

Just my thoughts on this

Hi,

i have to admit, that i dont understand entirely the meaning of "... are treatet as if they are engaged by 2 additional squadrons".

The number 2 is confusing to me, because i cant find anything that makes a difference how many fighters are engaged.

Everything else is clear, like enemy squadrons cant move if they are ad distance 1etc.

It is just the the number 2...

Greetings

H

Hi,

i have to admit, that i dont understand entirely the meaning of "... are treatet as if they are engaged by 2 additional squadrons".

The number 2 is confusing to me, because i cant find anything that makes a difference how many fighters are engaged.

Everything else is clear, like enemy squadrons cant move if they are ad distance 1etc.

It is just the the number 2...

Greetings

H

I would highly expect some rule related to the number of squadrons you are engaged by with the rogues and villains pack..

There is nothing affected by the number of squadrons yet. I suspect there will be VERY soon (Rogues and Villains).

Yeah, I bet some of the rogues will be able to move if they are engaged by only a single enemy.

Yeah, I bet some of the rogues will be able to move if they are engaged by only a single enemy.

Grit perhaps?

some eagle eyed forumites spied it as having something to do with engagement, only they couldn't reconcile how that'd be if Tycho has no such keyword (and yet is immune to engagement)

could have something to do with being engaged by only one squadron

Tycho is a strong, independent A-wing pilot who doesn't need no keyword in order to do what he wants.

He'd probably like Bomber if he could get it tho.

Question... If Raider, with Orzzel is already at speed 4, the Navigate command was used to increase the yaw by 1 click, and you activate Ozzel's ability, so by that logic, for that round, the Raider has effectively moved at speed 5 right?

No, because as a ship you're limited to the speeds and maneuver profile listed on your ship card. You can never go over your listed speed. So Ozzel can't make a VSD go faster than 2. Engine techs technically doesn't increase your speed, since it's a separate maneuver entirely.

Even if you could go beyond the max, what are you going to measure as speed 5 since that doesnt exist?

I move speed 5 with an engine tech'd CR90

I move speed 5 with an engine tech'd CR90

I move speed 5 with an engine tech'd CR90

no you move speed 4 then you do additional speed 1 maneuver

In the end I am moving 5 segments of the maneuver tool

I can see the most common use of the raider being a cheep utility ship. That means providing AA fire, and increasing the number of ship activations, so it might not even shoot at things. I can also see it carrying Issard because who else will you be placing on a ship that is their to help time your Demolisher attacks.

I move speed 5 with an engine tech'd CR90

no you move speed 4 then you do additional speed 1 maneuver

Speed 5 to me.

In the end I am moving 5 segments of the maneuver tool

Well, if you make yourself a speed 2 maneuver tool, you have segments left over to make another two into speed 5.

I can see the most common use of the raider being a cheep utility ship. That means providing AA fire, and increasing the number of ship activations, so it might not even shoot at things. I can also see it carrying Issard because who else will you be placing on a ship that is their to help time your Demolisher attacks.

I move speed 5 with an engine tech'd CR90

no you move speed 4 then you do additional speed 1 maneuver

Speed 5 to me.

In the end I am moving 5 segments of the maneuver tool

Well, if you make yourself a speed 2 maneuver tool, you have segments left over to make another two into speed 5.

I can see the most common use of the raider being a cheep utility ship. That means providing AA fire, and increasing the number of ship activations, so it might not even shoot at things. I can also see it carrying Issard because who else will you be placing on a ship that is their to help time your Demolisher attacks.

I move speed 5 with an engine tech'd CR90

no you move speed 4 then you do additional speed 1 maneuver

Speed 5 to me.

In the end I am moving 5 segments of the maneuver tool

Well, if you make yourself a speed 2 maneuver tool, you have segments left over to make another two into speed 5.

I have 4 maneuver tool. . . 1 at each speed. . .

So, you still don't have a Speed 5 Tool, is what you're saying.

I can see the most common use of the raider being a cheep utility ship. That means providing AA fire, and increasing the number of ship activations, so it might not even shoot at things. I can also see it carrying Issard because who else will you be placing on a ship that is their to help time your Demolisher attacks.

I move speed 5 with an engine tech'd CR90

no you move speed 4 then you do additional speed 1 maneuver

Speed 5 to me.

In the end I am moving 5 segments of the maneuver tool

Well, if you make yourself a speed 2 maneuver tool, you have segments left over to make another two into speed 5.

I have 4 maneuver tool. . . 1 at each speed. . .

So, you still don't have a Speed 5 Tool, is what you're saying.

You'll have to, because:

Lyraeus, on 20 Sept 2015 - 11:56 AM, said:

I move speed 5 with an engine tech'd CR90

Conflicts with:

There is no number 5! Though I think I will get my friend who cuts acrylic to craft me one. . .