Hi,

Has anyone had any success with blending the best of the classic panic attack list with TLT?

My suggestion is:

1x HWK Rebel operative, TLT, Tactician;

1x HWK Rebel operative, TLT, Tactician;

1x Y-Wing Gold, TLT, R3A2;

1x Y-Wing Gold, TLT, R2;

Total 99pts

You could always drop R2 for a 98pt sure fire initiative.

To me this is the best of both worlds. The loss of 1tactician from the classic B-Wing build of panic attack is mitigated by the double stress caused by the TLT HWKs.

Panic attack was a real idiots-guide-to-win list and TLT is the new bane of most people's existence.

By combining them you can make yourself the ultimate ******.

1x Y-Wing Gold, TLT, R3A2;

Warning : TLT second attack now skips the design target step(cf FAQ), thus does not trigger R3A2.

IMO, this is taking two lists and creating something that is quite a deal less than the sum of its parts.

Panic Attack didn't just work because it was giving stress to everything, it worked because you were giving stress to everything while hammering away with multiple B-wings and an A4 Y-wing, while demanding your opponent chew through 32 hit points in response. Dropping to HWKs means you're asking them to chew through less hit points, while making it far easier for the enemy to avoid your Tacticians and giving them a safe place to hide from most of your firepower.

If you're going to run TLT-wing, run TLT-wing. If you're going to run Panic Attack, run Panic Attack. The two will not mix well.

Why not

Gold Squadron TLT, Title and R2 unit x2

Blue Squadron Modification and tactician x2

same 32 hit points as panic attack a bit less stress b/c of a lack of R3-A2 but the Y gets to roll more dice.

HWKs are terrible tactician platforms. They have no k-turn and the dial is shite so its very easy to avoid its R2 front arc.

B-wing on the other hand has a slightly better dial, barrel roll (to adjust your arc and increase odds of tactician) a k-turn (although short, its better than nothing) and more durability.

B-wings can't double stress, Hwks can. Terrible is relative there.

B-wings can't double stress, Hwks can. Terrible is relative there.

No, it's really not. The HWKs are pretty terrible.

They can double stress on their own, true, but only if the opponent obliges you by walking into the front arc at exactly range two of the game's least agile ship. Any plan that relies on your opponent helping you out is a terrible plan.

Further, Panic Attack doesn't really need to have a(nother) ship that cab double-stress on it's own. The Stressbot A4 can do that job just fine at multiple range bands, and with four stress inducing ships double-stressing one target is generally not that big of a problem.

Finally, if we assume that we'll be successful at double stressing the enemy, the HWKs cannot capitalise on it by walking into range 1 and handing 4 dice to the now action-less enemy ship. The fact that the B-wings can is a big part of why Panic Attack works as a list.

TLT on HWK is not a best option as HWK have almost no option to shake off enemy from his 6 if enemy will manage to get behind them.

TLT on HWK is not a best option as HWK have almost no option to shake off enemy from his 6 if enemy will manage to get behind them.

Personally, I think if you're going to run HWKs instead of Y-wings as TLT platforms, ReconSpec is the obvious choice to take advantage of your 2 def.

TLT on HWK is not a best option as HWK have almost no option to shake off enemy from his 6 if enemy will manage to get behind them.

Sure it does, its called engine upgrade. A great card that many balk at using due to its cost. Not only that, but TLT + recon spec is a solid pair of upgrades bringing the generic to 25 pts. Pretty good value, even in comparison to the TLT y-wing (many prefer the y because of its relative higher durability for same points)

Engine Upgrade is poor choice on low PS pilots.

HWK with Tactician is not a bad choice, but still - you have no possibility to escape if high PS pilot will jump on your 6

Besides... Tactician ... is an UNIQUE card since last FAQ.

Engine Upgrade is poor choice on low PS pilots.

HWK with Tactician is not a bad choice, but still - you have no possibility to escape if high PS pilot will jump on your 6

Besides... Tactician ... is an UNIQUE card since last FAQ.

Tactician is limited, not unique. And it is bad on an HWK because you can't keep the enemy in front of you to get consistent use out of it, unlike a b-wing.

Boost is not a poor choice on low PS pilots. You make it sound like your opponent somehow becomes omnipotent once he's behind you. If that's the case, then yeah, you have no chance of winning regardless of your upgrade choices. If your opponent is mortal however, engine can be extremely useful on a TLT ship. Its the only way to keep enemy ships out of that R1 blindspot (or have other ships to bump/distract). Leveraging superior positioning over your opponent is often the most effective way of securing victory and boost gives you an additional tool for that purpose. The problem is a lot of players don't know how to make good use out of it. I do admit that it is more difficult to deal with higher PS ships that also have boost/barrel roll, but still not impossible, especially if you have other ships on the board creating problems for your opponent.

How many points are you spending on this TLT Engine Upgrade HWK? Because I'm counting it at a minimum 26, 29 if you want Recon Spec on there. That's way more than any generic HWK is worth, and limits you to a minimum of three very squishy, not very manoeuvrable ships.

How many points are you spending on this TLT Engine Upgrade HWK? Because I'm counting it at a minimum 26, 29 if you want Recon Spec on there. That's way more than any generic HWK is worth, and limits you to a minimum of three very squishy, very manoeuvrable ships.

You got it. Keep in mind I'm not advocating anything here as being all kinds of awesome. I'm just talking about different ways of getting use out of a ship. You don't run 3 HWK w/ TLT + Recon + Engine because that's not a very strong list. However, if you are running an HWK w/ a TLT and you are having a specific problem with enemies getting into the R1 blindspot, then engine upgrade is a good solution to that. There could be other ways of dealing with that problem though, like throwing in a pair of 12 pt z-95s, or taking another ship with autoblaster, etc. Anyway, this is getting off topic, but I guess it just bothers me when people say something is good or bad without actually using it or understanding how to get value out of an upgrade card.

Back to tactician: I think it would be useful on an HWK if you have other things in your list that can bump or lock down the enemy ship so that the HWK can keep the the target stuck at R2 for more than one turn. That's not easy to do, although a large based blocker or perhaps a source of ion could make it work. I don't think 4 TLT + tactician HWKs would cut it, however.

Besides... Tactician ... is an UNIQUE card since last FAQ.

EDIT: Ninja'd ... sort of. My web page didn'treload so I disn't see that otgers had already addressed this, even though they posted way before I did.

Ok, indeed - Tac card it's not unique, but limited. It really doesn't matter here.

The deal is that - HWK is simply a bad dial ship, with poor defence and HP. With TLT it's just a cheap filler if you don't have points for Ywing or other playable ship.

I can't remember any noticeable tournament list containing HWK. I can bet that HWK and X-wing are the least played ships - and there is a reason for this. Those ships are simply too expensive for what they bring with them to the field.

Engine upgrade on HWK? .... ok, feel free to do it, for me it's just a waste of points. You won't make it "magically" work against higher PS pilot as he is always going to pick to boost/roll or not, depending on your moves as you simply move ealier. HWK with TLT and EU is.... 26 points. That's A LOT.

It's really nice to try out new builds and ships.... but this is good idea only in fun play with friends in friday evening. On tournaments, each list should be squeezed to the max - and in such hostile environment, there is no place for HWK and other medicore/bad ships. Anyway, if you can win games with HWK lists - sure, why not use it. But I'm not going to play it.

Call me crazy but I think they have potential.

I have used the Fat Palob build as a quick supporting bomber with Boba.

Palob Godalhi (36) HWK-290 (20), Lone Wolf (2), Twin Laser Turret (6), Greedo (1), Moldy Crow (3), Engine Upgrade (4)

I think EU completely allows you to keep your distance to remain at range 2-3 and move out of firing arc or onto Range 3 to improve defense.

Also Palob, Lone Wolf and Greedo are excelent to improve your damage and critical damage potential

On the other hand Hwk and TLT have the lowest point cost at only 22 points for

Spice Runner (22) HWK-290 (16), Twin Laser Turret (6)

Call me crazy but I think they have potential.

I have used the Fat Palob build as a quick supporting bomber with Boba.

Palob Godalhi (36) HWK-290 (20), Lone Wolf (2), Twin Laser Turret (6), Greedo (1), Moldy Crow (3), Engine Upgrade (4)

I think EU completely allows you to keep your distance to remain at range 2-3 and move out of firing arc or onto Range 3 to improve defense.

Also Palob, Lone Wolf and Greedo are excelent to improve your damage and critical damage potential

On the other hand Hwk and TLT have the lowest point cost at only 22 points for

Spice Runner (22) HWK-290 (16), Twin Laser Turret (6)

36 points for a HWK is beyond crazy. I am semi speechless.

Haha I see your point.

However I have been able to win vs 3 TLT Y-wings and a TLT torkil.

How just I did it. Luck + I avoided concentrated fire and keep defending with 2 Agility + focus + reroll, while I keep doing 2 hits with TLT and LW (one is critical with greedo). This is something no one should ignore.

Let me rephase the big question here. Current meta has the 4 TLT Ywings + droid for 25pts each. That is 2 damage on 2 hits with 3D on 8 points hull + shields with 1 Agility.

How much cost efficient are they vs 5 hull + shield on a 2 Agility aircraft for 22 points vs 25? If I add the EU It goes to 26 pts.

Just my 2 cents