I want to offer a slightly different perspective.

Tengoku v. Jigoku isn't about good and evil, it's about order and chaos. Rokugan represents order, a society based upon the precepts of knowing one's place, not about virtue and kindness. Even the Rokugani concept of compassion isn't actually that compassionate so much as it is a matter of avoiding flagrant tyranny or despotism - things that are very good triggers of revolutions. If one's place is not forcefully made more odious, then keeping it is simpler. Blasphemy mostly includes speaking out against The Celestial Order. Desire, Fear, and Regret are just different aspects of refusing to accept fate or circumstance. Ambition isn't a sin because advancement requires the support of one's betters so it drives a person to excel and perform their existing duties with extraordinary skill.

Tengoku and Rokugan are about responsibility, consequence, and fatal acceptance of divine justice. The heavens will see to their own.

Jigoku is injustice, opportunity, freedom and defiance. **** the shackles of society, I deserve more!

With this, the taint requires a contagious nature to fulfill its purpose of being that unseen, unjust, unstoppable horror to which none are immune. If you can't get it unwillingly, then it just isn't a threat.

Shouldn't be then there also a Tengoku taint that makes people less tolerant and less flexible towards ideas that fall outside the box? the Shadowlands taint is not about being evil, why is it then important to be nevertheless seen as threat and thus being contagious? I would say your argument leads exactly to the opposite conclusion, that taint should be not contagious and it should be no threat, since it is not about evil, but about chaos.

There isn't a "Tengoku taint" on Ningen-do because Tengoku is a significantly less Jealous realm. If one were to travel to Tengoku, yes, you would be effected by Tengoku's control, which fills a person with the lawful nature of the realm and moves them closer to the virtues of Bushido. Very little has been said about it because Tengoku doesn't try to expand into other realms like Jigoku.

The reason the Shadowlands Taint exists is because it is Jigoku itself insinuating itself into another realm in an effort to transform that realm into more Jigoku. The reason it focuses so much on Ningen-do is because Ningen-do is spiritually close to many realms, in essence it gives Jigoku a gateway to more realms than any other.

Would you consider mortals (denizens of Ningen-Do) spreading Jealousy of ningendo when slaying immortal beings, kind of like Oni are making you Tainted (and undead/immortal in process)? This line of thought killed all my complaints about samurai being godkillers.

Would you consider mortals (denizens of Ningen-Do) spreading Jealousy of ningendo when slaying immortal beings, kind of like Oni are making you Tainted (and undead/immortal in process)? This line of thought killed all my complaints about samurai being godkillers.

That is pretty much exactly it. That is one of the reason why many gods stay in Tengoku, by entering Ningen-do they are very much putting themselves (and their divinity) at risk. It is why the Kami were trapped in Ningen-do until they died, they caught Ningen-do's taint, aka Mortality.

To continue this line of thought, it is also why the Undead exist. They are so heavily tainted by Jigoku that it overrides Ningen-do's taint and they "live" despite being dead.

(snip)

With this, the taint requires a contagious nature to fulfill its purpose of being that unseen, unjust, unstoppable horror to which none are immune. If you can't get it unwillingly, then it just isn't a threat.

Shouldn't be then there also a Tengoku taint that makes people less tolerant and less flexible towards ideas that fall outside the box? the Shadowlands taint is not about being evil, why is it then important to be nevertheless seen as threat and thus being contagious? I would say your argument leads exactly to the opposite conclusion, that taint should be not contagious and it should be no threat, since it is not about evil, but about chaos.

What Digdoug said.

Tengoku's "taint" is honor, spread by ideas from the Kami, but not terribly well since only one of them actually spent any time there. Tengoku's grasp on them was pretty weak. Order spreads slowly but requires maintainence, chaos spreads passively and effortlessly. Entropy favors the latter.

(snip)

With this, the taint requires a contagious nature to fulfill its purpose of being that unseen, unjust, unstoppable horror to which none are immune. If you can't get it unwillingly, then it just isn't a threat.

Shouldn't be then there also a Tengoku taint that makes people less tolerant and less flexible towards ideas that fall outside the box? the Shadowlands taint is not about being evil, why is it then important to be nevertheless seen as threat and thus being contagious? I would say your argument leads exactly to the opposite conclusion, that taint should be not contagious and it should be no threat, since it is not about evil, but about chaos.

What Digdoug said.

Tengoku's "taint" is honor, spread by ideas from the Kami, but not terribly well since only one of them actually spent any time there. Tengoku's grasp on them was pretty weak. Order spreads slowly but requires maintainence, chaos spreads passively and effortlessly. Entropy favors the latter.

Maintaining order also creates entropy, but again, I don't think that order vs chaos really applies. Since, look at it, if Jigoku would be all about chaos, it would not create command chains and hierarchies as it does in the setting, it would chreate anarchy, it would not leave its mark (the taint) on other things, but dissolve them. And regarding the getting trapped when someone from Tengoku enters Ningendo, that is of course also just a weak explanation, since look at the celestial dragons, which are of Tengoku and have rather often been to Ningendo and almost never got into trouble (the only one that comes to mind got into trouble was the one that later became the shadow dragon, and that was not because of the nature of Ningendo). So, I am not buying the model you think is true for the cosmology of the setting, and I don't care what the creators say, if the contradict themselves in the stories, then they obviously have no idea themselves, and make things up as the go, like even some characters in fictions noticed already is what is happening...

(snip)

With this, the taint requires a contagious nature to fulfill its purpose of being that unseen, unjust, unstoppable horror to which none are immune. If you can't get it unwillingly, then it just isn't a threat.

Shouldn't be then there also a Tengoku taint that makes people less tolerant and less flexible towards ideas that fall outside the box? the Shadowlands taint is not about being evil, why is it then important to be nevertheless seen as threat and thus being contagious? I would say your argument leads exactly to the opposite conclusion, that taint should be not contagious and it should be no threat, since it is not about evil, but about chaos.

What Digdoug said.

Tengoku's "taint" is honor, spread by ideas from the Kami, but not terribly well since only one of them actually spent any time there. Tengoku's grasp on them was pretty weak. Order spreads slowly but requires maintainence, chaos spreads passively and effortlessly. Entropy favors the latter.

Maintaining order also creates entropy...

Nope! These things are opposites. Entropy may proceed regardless of attempts to maintain order, or in other areas, but maintaining order is literally preventing entropy, which is disorder.

Outside of that, I agree with your larger point, including that the cosmology is a mess and needs a clean sweep.

(...) and I don't care what the creators say, if the contradict themselves in the stories, then they obviously have no idea themselves, and make things up as the go, like even some characters in fictions noticed already is what is happening...

I'm sorry, but this kind of sentences do nothing to give your arguments any credibility. At this point, and reading your past posts, I'm even questioning your grasp of the overall setting. There are flaws and issues, yes, but to simply disregard the author's words in favor of your own personal interpretation is something altogether different.

I'm not a fan of the messy quote tunnels, so I'll just respond.

It's my fault for talking thermo when discussing social constructs. Sorry.

Jigoku doesn't create command structures. It has very strong things, and the weaker things that obey the strong things to avoid being eaten. That is anarchy. When a force arrives on the scene that can (temporarily) organize the shadowlands, it's a Very Big Deal” and worth talking about because they are exceptions. Marginally sensible explanations still exist, like that the Kami spent no time in Tengoku and went to Ningen-do early, so they weren't terribly Tengoku-y anymore, while the Dragons live in Tengoku and sometimes go for a jaunt to Ningen-do. However, it's just something I'm pulling out of my arse that seems to make sense to me based on the things the old team put to paper at some point. =P

But back to the original topic, Rokugan needs a contagious taint as a senseless horror. Rokugan without threatening taint is a place where there is literally nothing to fear. With the acceptance of death, the lauding of silent suffering, and a fast reset button for disgrace, there must be something that takes this band of samurai and gives them reason to quake in their boots. An existential danger is required to overcome the laughter at mortality that is part of the culture.

If the resistance is to the idea of random chance potentially ending a character: It's L5R. Everything is life-threatening. That's a large part of why I love it.

When a force arrives on the scene that can (temporarily) organize the shadowlands, it's a Very Big Deal” and worth talking about because they are exceptions.

Well, to the characters in the setting, perhaps. To us, it's Tuesday.

When a force arrives on the scene that can (temporarily) organize the shadowlands, it's a Very Big Deal” and worth talking about because they are exceptions.

Well, to the characters in the setting, perhaps. To us, it's Tuesday.

More organization than a group of droogs hopped up on milk-plus with an evening to kill. =P

Junzo didn't organize things so much as walk around near the front while everything inexorably walked out towards the Day of Thunder. Iuchiban commanded things that he created. Daigotsu lead things, but that has been a pretty huge point of contention for the players since it happened.

Maintaining order also creates entropy...

Nope! These things are opposites. Entropy may proceed regardless of attempts to maintain order, or in other areas, but maintaining order is literally preventing entropy, which is disorder.

Outside of that, I agree with your larger point, including that the cosmology is a mess and needs a clean sweep.

To create or uphold order you need an investment of energy, that energy becomes usually heat or other forms of entropy to hold the stuff you want in place, so you create entropy around the thing that you keep in order, and thus overall the system as a whole does not become less entropic when you create order, you just move the entropy around, away from your orderly structure, but it is still there. But anyway, So, tengoku might be in the realm quite structured, but it would when we apply physics it create entropy around it. But I doubt the premise that tengoku is that static in the first place, otherwise you would not see that the denizen of Tengoku be able to make a change, but they do, they decided stuff like throwing out Hitomi and Yakamo. So, no, Tengoku is not about order, that is an interpretation you have, and you can play with that, I don'T mind, but it is not an absolute truth that everybody has to see the same way. And that is what I like, but more on that with the next coment...

(...) and I don't care what the creators say, if the contradict themselves in the stories, then they obviously have no idea themselves, and make things up as the go, like even some characters in fictions noticed already is what is happening...

I'm sorry, but this kind of sentences do nothing to give your arguments any credibility. At this point, and reading your past posts, I'm even questioning your grasp of the overall setting. There are flaws and issues, yes, but to simply disregard the author's words in favor of your own personal interpretation is something altogether different.

Yeah, I noticed that you question the understand other people have when they come to a different conclusion then you. Not sure, you might have noticed that I ignore most of your comments, since I find you too much of a troll to waste my time on you, for you clarely are not interested in how other people might interpret things, but only what to get validation for your own views. I am just not interested in the author's intention, I am read fiction with a 'death of the author' approach, thus I do only care of what is actually in the text, and not how the author might have viewed it him- or herself, which is even more usless when the fictional content is created by a coorporation of many people, and thus you have many different views the author's had, since they are not a hive mind. So, when you want to talk seriously with my about analysis and interpretation, you best come down from your high horse and start trying to iunderstand from where other people come from, instead of always assuming they just don't get it, since in my opinion you make the impression like you are the one who doesn't get how fiction works.

Far be it from me to criticize the application of physics to a gaming world, but the second law of thermodynamics has some requirements attached to it that the world in L5R does not satisfy. Ningen-do is not a closed system. We know that it has both inward and outward flows of energy and even matter. It's an open system, which removes the universal generalizations for thermo. it Tengoku isn't rigid order, but the 'taint' of Tengoku is recorded and written to be honor. Ignoring author intent, that's right there in (often inconsistent) print.

I oversimplified using "order v. chaos," but I don't think that's essential to the stance about contagious taint. Yomi accepts monstrous screw-ups, not just virtuous people, so the pro-Tengoku requirements aren't attached to standard morality, so why should Jigoku be about standardized evil?

Edit: Typos? Really?

Yeah, I'm not at all sure that Thermodynamics is at all applicable to the sort of metaphysical Order vs Chaos being discussed here.

(...) and I don't care what the creators say, if the contradict themselves in the stories, then they obviously have no idea themselves, and make things up as the go, like even some characters in fictions noticed already is what is happening...

I'm sorry, but this kind of sentences do nothing to give your arguments any credibility. At this point, and reading your past posts, I'm even questioning your grasp of the overall setting. There are flaws and issues, yes, but to simply disregard the author's words in favor of your own personal interpretation is something altogether different.

Yeah, I noticed that you question the understand other people have when they come to a different conclusion then you. Not sure, you might have noticed that I ignore most of your comments, since I find you too much of a troll to waste my time on you, for you clarely are not interested in how other people might interpret things, but only what to get validation for your own views. I am just not interested in the author's intention, I am read fiction with a 'death of the author' approach, thus I do only care of what is actually in the text, and not how the author might have viewed it him- or herself, which is even more usless when the fictional content is created by a coorporation of many people, and thus you have many different views the author's had, since they are not a hive mind. So, when you want to talk seriously with my about analysis and interpretation, you best come down from your high horse and start trying to iunderstand from where other people come from, instead of always assuming they just don't get it, since in my opinion you make the impression like you are the one who doesn't get how fiction works.

Hmm I think I only questioned yours... first when you tried to pass judgement on current Story quality, while admitting not to have read it, second when you wrote "the Spider are just people too! They are a minority that faced planty of discrimination", and now at your "I don't care what creator's say" line. If pointing obvious issues makes me a troll... yay?

But if you want actual text... sure:

Jigoku holds a terrible but necessary place in the cosmology of Rokugan. This dark realm represents the essence of corruption, the absolute nadir of virtue and morality .

(...)

This realm actively seeks to corrupt everything it touches; though its existence is a necessary part of the Celestial Order, it has no respect for any part of that order.

(...)

Jigoku has a special hunger for Ningen-do. Fu Leng was brought under Jigoku's rule expressly to corrupt this realm , one which the powers of Jigoku believe is the key to all other realms.

(about the rise of Jigoku)

A sinister and intelligent realm, it looked upon the stability of Ningen-do with a terrible hunger. It wished to destroy this newborn world

(...)

Jigoku did not wish to parley. It did not seek surrender. It desired only to corrupt and consume.

(...)

(About the chaotic nature of Jigoku and the Shadowlands, the same book tells us...)

(about Shadowlands creatures: ) (...) the dark will of Jigoku drives every single one of these creatures. While they may not be organized much of the time, each of them is a lethal threat, and their infighting only ensures the most dangerous remain on top.

(...)

(about the landscape: ) (...) the landscape moves.(...) there seems to be no real pattern to the shifting landscape other than the chaotic will of Jigoku, with the movements becoming faster and more unpredictable the closer one gets to the Pit.

(...)

(about the passage of time: ) (...) scouting parties returning from the realm years after departing, having aged only a few days. (...) Whether true or not, this illustrates the most essential fact about the Shadowlands: ultimately, it can never truly be understood or predicted.

And, on the matter of Jigoku being orderly and not chaotic, you also have this very recent piece of fiction :

“Be warned that those born of Jigoku who possess free will, the oni, may reject the Dark Lord’s commands."

So the only order you can find there is the one enforced by an entity that was not born of Jigoku, and only on creatures that are not born of Jigoku, or are too weak-willed to resist a demi-god.

So.....

if Jigoku would be all about chaos, it would not create command chains and hierarchies as it does in the setting, it would chreate anarchy

Proven false.

And regarding the getting trapped when someone from Tengoku enters Ningendo, that is of course also just a weak explanation, since look at the celestial dragons, which are of Tengoku and have rather often been to Ningendo and almost never got into trouble (the only one that comes to mind got into trouble was the one that later became the shadow dragon, and that was not because of the nature of Ningendo).

Weak or strong, is a judgement call anyone is free to make - it's also subjective. It is however objective and indisputable that the realms are separate as, according to "Way of the Phoenix" and "Fortunes and Winds", Amaterasu and Onnotangu separated the realms shortly after the appearance of mankind, making it impossible to travel from one another (save for a passage in the old Seppun Miharu dojo). Your point about the Dragons? They left behind slivers of themselves (they were the reason why the Sun and the Moon separated the realms in the first place, for they were meddling with Ningen-Do too much), thus creating the Oracles. And the creation of the Shadow Dragon took place in the Oblivion's Gate - a very special place that connected several of the realms. The battle there weakened the barriers between the various realms even further, and that is what allowed the Dragon of Air to assist in the battle, first helping the Master of Fire and then taking the fleeing sliver of Nothing into itself.

By the way, zero interpretation here. Just the recollection of the facts and the written texts. So... no "death of the author" arguments please, as they are utterly irrelevant. What is relevant is that, although it took some effort, it is now clear you were the one making stuff up as you went along, and resorting to ad-hominem instead of supporting your claims with facts.

By the way, zero interpretation here. Just the recollection of the facts and the written texts. So... no "death of the author" arguments please, as they are utterly irrelevant. What is relevant is that, although it took some effort, it is now clear you were the one making stuff up as you went along, and resorting to ad-hominem instead of supporting your claims with facts.

Zero interpretation? You are deluding yourself there, of course you are interpreting things, alone the decision what you cherry pick to focus on is already an interpretation of the setting. And regarding the adhoninem, you asked me if I am serious or trolling in one of the many comments I was ignoring, so you started that and I am just treating you like you treat me. So, maybe you stop complaining about things you do yourself and others just reflect then... Anyway, I am done with you.

Radiation taint was the best taint, players just hated it because it could be used as a story prize weapon. It should go back to radiation taint and just never offer that stuff as a story prize, with staff tainting or not based on the story they want to tell.

Well Drudenfusz, guess you were actually being serious on that "the Spider are just people too! They are a minority that faced plenty of discrimination" line, and not just trolling. It was actually an honest question, because I couldn't believe what I had just read. But the fact you actually meant it... well it speaks quite eloquently. Thank you for clarifying it, it was enlightening.

Radiation taint was the best taint, players just hated it because it could be used as a story prize weapon. It should go back to radiation taint and just never offer that stuff as a story prize, with staff tainting or not based on the story they want to tell.

What about something along the lines of what they were doing this Kotei, having a small pool of Personalities that can be affected by prize X, instead of opening the whole game for grabs? That would allow some manner of choice, while preserving most of the writer's freedom for writing the story, don't you think?

Quote

if Jigoku would be all about chaos, it would not create command chains and hierarchies as it does in the setting, it would chreate anarchy

Proven false.

There is actually a command chain in Jigoku even before Daigotsu became the Master of it. Actually the weaker Oni can be controlled by the Oni Lords like Akuma and are fearing them and therefore are doing what they say. The Oni Lords in turn are answering the Champion of Jigoku cause he is obviously stronger than them and therefore they fear his wrath. the champion in return is a puppet of the ralm itself and the one who is making sure the Oni acting inside of the realms goals.

After Daigotsu took charge this chain changed cause the Dark Fortunes got in and Daigotsu did not became the puppet of the realm but the realm became his servant.

But yes there are structures inside of the realm of evil which prevent him from being completly chaotic and therefore it ha some kind of order too.

Another hint that the realm cares for Order and balance is how the Dark Orcales came into exsistence as a try to fix the inbalance created by the Oracle of Void Kaede.

So no the realm is not a true chaotic one.

if Jigoku would be all about chaos, it would not create command chains and hierarchies as it does in the setting, it would chreate anarchy

Proven false.

There is actually a command chain in Jigoku even before Daigotsu became the Master of it. Actually the weaker Oni can be controlled by the Oni Lords like Akuma and are fearing them and therefore are doing what they say. The Oni Lords in turn are answering the Champion of Jigoku cause he is obviously stronger than them and therefore they fear his wrath. the champion in return is a puppet of the ralm itself and the one who is making sure the Oni acting inside of the realms goals.

After Daigotsu took charge this chain changed cause the Dark Fortunes got in and Daigotsu did not became the puppet of the realm but the realm became his servant.

But yes there are structures inside of the realm of evil which prevent him from being completly chaotic and therefore it ha some kind of order too.

Another hint that the realm cares for Order and balance is how the Dark Orcales came into exsistence as a try to fix the inbalance created by the Oracle of Void Kaede.

So no the realm is not a true chaotic one.

Well, addressing the last point first: Kaede was responsible for the creation not of the Dark Oracles, but of the Dark Oracle of Void. Dark Oracles have always existed, as a counterpart to the Light Oracles - except for Void and Thunder. Kaede's actions forced the creation of the Dark Oracle of Voice - but here's the important bit: it wasn't created by Jigoku, but by the Void Dragon itself. Source here.

As for the command structure, Domotai put it quite accurately:

Jigoku doesn't create command structures. It has very strong things, and the weaker things that obey the strong things to avoid being eaten. That is anarchy.

and I provided a direct quote from the books contradicting this notion of a command chain. What you are calling organization in the Shadowlands (more on this in a bit) is just Survival of the Fittest and Rule of the Strong. As Domotai put it, that's anarchy, not order. For order you need something more than just a rule of strength, you need laws and social constructs - something different than "I don't like you and I'm stronger, so I'll just eat you".

Now, here's an important thing. Jigoku is chaos - the quotes I posted earlier state this repeatedly. Complete and utter chaos. You spoke of the Shadowlands.... a place that is warped by Jigoku, has direct access to Jigoku, but is not Jigoku. So, I think you're turning the situation a bit upside down, when you state that "because I see a command chain in the Shadowlands, then Jigoku isn't all that chaotic." In this aspect, the Realm of Jigoku isn't influenced by the Shadowlands, or by what happens in it.... it's the Shadowlands that are influenced by Jigoku. Therefore, it is (and it is just my opinion here) more accurate to state that it is the chaos of Jigoku that twists the order of Ningen-do into the basic anarchy and survivalism that we see in the Shadowlands.

EDIT: And it is important to stress that even Daigotsu, after his ascension, is unable (by his own words) to reign in the creatures that are directly from Jigoku and have the strongest connection to it: the Oni. They can ignore him and therefore promote even more a state of anarchy, rejecting his authority. If this isn't ultimate proof of the chaotic nature of the realm, then I don't know how to convince you otherwise.

Ok I decided to go for it. So first before we continue the dicussion some definitions.

Anarchy: is the condition of a society, entity, group of people or a single person which does not recognize authority. (Wikipedia.)

Order: The arrangement or disposition of people or things in relation to each other according to a particular sequence, pattern , or method (Oxford Dictonary)

Good now lets apply this on what you claim is anarchy. The rule of the strongest actually can´t be anarchy cause it recognizes the authority of the strongest person in the realm of evil.

Actually there is a rule in place which says the strongest is the one who is right and rules. This is an arrangement which the whoel realm agrees to and also the Lost do too. That makes

it a system of Order.

For the Dark Oracles. Yes you are right the Dragon of Void created it but when they die they return to Jigoku and can be realsed again fom there so they belong to the realm of evil which means

the realm is striving for balance since he is not extingusihing their essence which he would be totaly able to as they are creatures of his influence sphere.

Daigotsu and the Oni is a fun thing cause the writes actually mentioned that the Oni had the choice of serving him or fleeing from his wrath this inidcates that while he has not complete power over them

many respected the rule of the strongest which is Daigotsu.

So in the end there is still som kind of order in the realms of evil.

Please note that you can have anarchy while having non-hierarchical, voluntary associations between individuals (not the case here, I know), and that just because an area is considered anarchic does not mean small groups of individuals band together in a barbaric association (per Kant's definition, "Force without freedom and law", which fits the Shadowlands like a glove). In retrospect, I have to admit that the chaotic nature of the Shadowlands is perhaps better represented by a form of 'anarchic barbarism', in the sense that the Rule of Force/"Might makes right" is what matters the most, but there is no centralized government structure or even Law.

Also, I think it's important to note that while chaos is usually anarchic (having a certain tendency to evolve into despotism), not all anarchy is chaotic.

You Kant translation is wrong. Kant defined Anarchy as Law and freedom without force. Actually that is what the german original said. So no the Shadowlands ahve nothing to do with freedom and/or the lack of force so no anarchy there at least not from Kants perspective.

Not all chaotic things are anarchic.

Also Law is not a word whcih only includes the written law of states like germany it also includes natures law and spoken law so sicne the surival of the fittest defeniatly is some kind of natures law it is a law and therefore follows a hierachy and is a system which can be placed into the order section. Only because things appear to be chaotic it is not said that they are chaotic.

The original is: "Gesetz und Freiheit ohne Gewalt"
However the German 'Gewalt' is so much more then force. You can translate it as violence, control, might or authority.
I think in this specific context authority might be the best translation, so "Law and freedom without authority".

However we have a clear figure of authority in Jigoku which is Daigotsu or in DnD terms Jigoku is lawful evil!

You Kant translation is wrong. Kant defined Anarchy as Law and freedom without force. Actually that is what the german original said. So no the Shadowlands ahve nothing to do with freedom and/or the lack of force so no anarchy there at least not from Kants perspective.

Not all chaotic things are anarchic.

You misunderstood. I was referring to the definition for barbaric (the one in ""), and that it fit the shadowlands like a glove.

We haven't had literally a single character on our table that would be willing to commit the crime of harboring and hiding the Taint. It's literally one of worst crimes you can commit in the Empire, so it's kinda like assuming that your characters will willingly assassinate and poison people who might have blackmail on them or kill their daimyos.

Point is that there is no setting-accepted way to continue playing such character - either you are betraying the Empire and harboring the Taint (which will probably clash with pretty much anyone of Honor higher than 2), or you are following the rules by handing yourself to authorities, who tell you to spend rest of your life living in your home and not moving anywhere. Which is the most logical and most in-character option for many; especially remembering that this way you are also saving yourself from becoming a slave to Jigoku (cuz you are not risking becoming Lost).

In RPG, you started passively spreading Taint at quite late Rank. To make these options actually playable and allow Taint-threats to have some actual teeth, put the point of no return at Taint Rank 3 or 4 - this way you can *actually play* the character who got accidentally Tainted and her life got turned upside down, without becoming a criminal or doing nothing at retirement house.

The point of no return is rank 3 or 4. That's the point where you are labeled 'dangerous and priority to slay.' At taint ranks 1 and 2, you are not allowed to marry, are expected to drink jade petal tea, and are monitored. But you still are samurai, and as long as you have not hidden the taint you can still honorably serve. You just get to deal with horrible night terrors, general irritability, and monthly Kuni visitation.