Seeing most Imp players do not like or even think about going into battle w/o Demolisher shows its a bit broken and over powered. What do you think.

Nope. I love going Demolisher hunting

Well, with only two ship models, four total types, and five total named ships for the imps, there isn't much to choose from. Demolisher IS better than Insidious so if you're running Imperials and don't want to have all speed 2 ships with 1-yaw, then your running GSDs. If you're running a GSD, why not Demolisher.

The titles for Neb-bs are also quite good and often get run with them, or even because of them. Neb-bs just require a specific play style so don't get used for the rebels as much as the GSDs which are a little more self standing get used for the imps.

I play games all the time without demolisher (and I am an exclusive imperial) but if I play gladiators it is very rare for me to not take demolisher because it is very good

Well, with only two ship models, four total types, and five total named ships for the imps, there isn't much to choose from. Demolisher IS better than Insidious so if you're running Imperials and don't want to have all speed 2 ships with 1-yaw, then your running GSDs. If you're running a GSD, why not Demolisher.

The titles for Neb-bs are also quite good and often get run with them, or even because of them. Neb-bs just require a specific play style so don't get used for the rebels as much as the GSDs which are a little more self standing get used for the imps.

Hrmn....*checks models* nope mines in one piece... Lol

Ot though. Not sure I can say broken... 10 points to be allowed to break one rule. Where as there are many other upgrades that are cheaper that allows breaking of the rules as well. Like allowing engaged fighters to move anyway. And firing from the same arc twice. Etc etc.

I don't think it is broken, but it can be very very frustrating to play against. Especially as a Rebel player. You can't bring a Corvette anywhere near it, or the Corvette dies. I also run Salvation a lot, and that thing always feels like it is made out of match sticks against the Demolisher with ACM and Screed.

It's not really broken to be honest, but it requires some thinking into how to counter it. Demolisher with ACM will eat a Corvette with any of its arcs after chasing it down. It will have much more trouble killing a Nebulon-B with only a side shot even on the side arcs.

What it has going for it are good shielding on the approach. But once you get through to the hull, it dies extremely quickly. Demolisher really hates Salvation with Intel Officer and XI7 in terms of hard counters.

Sure, you can say that the Demolisher will avoid the front arc, but if you're a good Rebel player, you've set up your fleet so that the Demolisher either avoids the battle and spends the rest of the game doing jack squat, either it's thrown in a very nasty killzone.

What the Demolisher loves is also slow moving ships that have already activated. When you can mess with your opponent's ability to determine whether your ship will fly away or stick there, they really become more conservative with their placement of the Demolisher.

Once you're past the Demolisher, its rear arc and shielding are a lot less scary, and it becomes really easy to take down. Sometimes the best way to beat the Demolisher is just to fly straight through it.

With my speed 4.. -,1,1,2 yaw. I have not had any trouble flying my demolisher in circles around my opponent. Ijs

Killed a Demolisher last weekend without taking a scratch in return.

Its a tool. Its a useful tool, but a tool nonetheless... There are answers to it, you just need to consider it.

To be at its best, it generally has to leapfrog ahead, or isolate. A Demolisher who moves alongside a Victory might as well just be a Gladiator - so for someone to get the best out of it, it has a certain tactic to use.

So you bait it, and you trap it. It can't stomach a sustained fight.

Nope. I love going Demolisher hunting

Same here. Initially I had some trouble with them but playing enough against them I love seeing them on the board as they almost always encourage the opposed player to over commit themselves which plays right into the hands of any experienced Rebel player. I see them as free points but it does take experience to learn how to lure them out and AFIIs are perfect for that.

Killed a Demolisher last weekend without taking a scratch in return.

Its a tool. Its a useful tool, but a tool nonetheless... There are answers to it, you just need to consider it.

To be at its best, it generally has to leapfrog ahead, or isolate. A Demolisher who moves alongside a Victory might as well just be a Gladiator - so for someone to get the best out of it, it has a certain tactic to use.

So you bait it, and you trap it. It can't stomach a sustained fight.

What he said.

The scariest thing about Demolisher, is if she gets a double activation from going last and then moving and shooting,and then going first shooting and then moving. And this only happens if they outnumber you, which should only happen in a double Space Guppy list, or if you move your ship into close range of where D wants to be.

So don't move a target in front of D when they have initiative.

Seeing most Imp players do not like or even think about going into battle w/o Demolisher shows its a bit broken and over powered. What do you think.

I'm not sure widespread--or even near-universal--use equates to either "broken" or "overpowered." There's no question Demolisher is an incredibly useful upgrade (not all rule exceptions are inherently valuable, but this one certainly is). It's also an expensive upgrade, on par with +2 red dice (the most expensive dice), "move engaged squadrons at a reduced speed" (crazy synergy for imperial fighter builds), "use an activated squadron again" (milk those expensive rebel aces!), and just under +2 black dice to the front (more damage!!!) and +2 dice per attack at the cost of shields (even more damage!!!).

While I agree Demolisher is a fabulous title (perhaps the best title currently available), I wouldn't rush to say that something is "broken" if there also seem to be plenty of players who like playing rebels, who have figured out way to counter it, and who defeat Demolisher lists.

The other side of it, for me is, if you would argue that it is broken, I would say, at worst: "Okay, fine. But in a Month, it won't be..."

Demolisher is a Bully. It likes to pounce on things smaller than itself and beat them up. I think it'd be biting off more than it could chew in a list that didn't have small fry, which we may very well see come Wave 2.

10 pts is a lot to pay for to let a GSD shoot its front red dice as it comes in and to get 1 arc of black dice off early. I've found most people including myself at first over extend with demolisher and it gets focussed easily. I've learnt to hold him back and use it to flank or have it fly with some support.

Interestingly enough one use I've gotten with demolisher was to fire my front arc at the side hull of a medium ship then fly around to the rear and fire the broadsides into it lol.

But yeah, it takes a bit of skill imo to get good returns with demolisher.

I've found Insidious a life saver at times when a speedy ship slips past Insidious but not far enough of medium range! Hilarity occurs next activiation with black dice broadsides into the rear haha

Heck no, it's perfect as is. Beautiful ship indeed.

man, compared to even something like pre-errata Whisper in X-wing miniatures, Demolisher is a baby-faced cherub

thing's fine; powerful but heavily limited by its range and cost

Powerful but not quite broken.

I think it's more to do with the ease of how to use the Demolisher effectively. A large part of the game is choosing your maneuvers and anticipating your opponent's. Demolisher gives you a nice way to circumvent that problem by being able to react to their moves while maximizing your black dice.

you see it a lot because its an amazing 10 point upgrade that makes your Gladiator be as pricey as a VSD.

Imperials also just lack the diversity that the Rebels have. Join the rebels.

Depends what you mean by broken. It doesn't ruin the game, because there's ways to take the little sucker out.

But it's an absolute no-brainer upgrade. It's stupidly good value. So in that sense I guess it is broken a bit. It should cost more, or other upgrades should be cheaper by comparison, because as it is it's the most effective way to spend points in the whole game.

The times I played against my soster, she makes it her personal mission to kill it with extreme prejudice.

Still, the rule breaker GSD Demolisher can really mess you up.

Maybe not broken, but more than a bit overpowered:

There is hardly a reason to take a GSD and NOT take the Demolisher: speed 3 and the ability to shoot after moving with a fistfull of black dice? At 10 points? That's a no-brainer in a game where there are very, very few (if any) other no-brainers.

Broken: no. OP: yes.

Maybe not broken, but more than a bit overpowered:

There is hardly a reason to take a GSD and NOT take the Demolisher: speed 3 and the ability to shoot after moving with a fistfull of black dice? At 10 points? That's a no-brainer in a game where there are very, very few (if any) other no-brainers.

Broken: no. OP: yes.

Plus Imps only have 2 ships - so most players will take the GSD and hence the Demolisher.

Take another Imperial title card: Dominator.

It's a great card. I love it. But at 12 points there are many fleets where it can't fit. Hell, I'm struggling even to afford the VSD II upgrade! And even if I do take it, there is no guarantee I will get much utility from it.

But the Demolisher? Almost always works - and even when it doesn't, it draws attention and fire away from my other units.

Dominator - 12

Demolisher - 10

Then there is the Salvation. At 7 points it's a little cheaper than the Demolisher, but roughly in the same league, and intended to fit on a small ship.

The Salvation is a strong card, but not nearly as good as the Demolisher. Not by a long shot. On it's own the Salvation might - or might not - do a couple of extra damage.

Now, the Salvation synergizes well with some other cards - but so does the Demolisher, so that's not really much of an argument.

The Demolisher isn't 'broken'. It doesn't break the game or immediately render all other ships invalid.

However, the combination of ACM, Screed and Demolisher may be more powerful than FFG had envisioned when setting points costs.

That's just a guess, but it seems unlikely they expected Expanded Launchers (13pts) to be so ignored compared to Assault Concussion Missiles (7pts).

One of the best leaders (Screed) combined with one of the best upgrades in the game (ACM) and the best title in the game (Demolisher) creates what is arguably the game's best ship.