Card text:

Lightning Reflexes

Small Ship Only

After you execute a white or green maneuver on your dial, you may discard this card to rotate your ship 180 degrees. Then receive 1 stress token after the "Check Pilot Stress" step.

From the 3.2 FAQ:

Lightning Reflexes:

A ship equipped with Lightning Reflexes can use it even if the ship overlapped another ship when executing its maneuver.

A ship that executes a maneuver that is not on its dial (such as an ionized ship, a ship using Inertial Dampers, or Juno Eclipse using her pilot ability to execute a maneuver that is not on her dial) it cannot use Lightning Reflexes.

So, what do we think of the following scenarios? Which of these pilots can use Lightning Reflexes? My own thoughts are indented.

• Juno reveals a green 3 straight and changes it to a green 2 straight. The TIE Advanced dial does contain a green 2 straight.
  • Lightning Reflexes: yes
  • Edit: Maybe not. See my reply from Frank, downthread .
• Juno reveals a green 3 straight and changes it to a green 4 straight. The TIE Advanced dial does contain a 4 straight, but it is white.
  • Lightning Reflexes: no, because the maneuver executed doesn't match anything on the dial. The maneuver on the dial would have been eligible for Lightning Reflexes, though, so I would have been less certain of this if they hadn't specifically included ions in the example.
• Juno reveals a white 2 turn and changes it to a white 1 turn. The TIE Advanced dial does not contain a 1 turn of any color.
  • Lightning Reflexes: no
• An ionized TIE Advance performs its compulsory 1 white straight. The TIE Advanced dial does not contain a 1 straight of any color.
  • Lightning Reflexes: no
• An ionized Z-95 performs its compulsory 1 white straight. The Z-95 dial has a 1 straight, but it is not white.
  • Lightning Reflexes: no
• An ionized Q-Wing (forthcoming in Wave 9) performs its compulsory ion 1 white straight. The Q-Wing's dial does contain a 1 white straight, the only small ship in the game to have one.
  • Lightning Reflexes: yes
  • Edit: No, according to Frank. Apparently no matter what's on the dial, no ioned ship can ever trigger Lightning Reflexes of their ion manuever.
• A TIE Bomber under the effect of the "all turns are red" crit performs a white red 3 turn. The TIE Bomber's dial contains a white 3 turn.
  • Lightning Reflexes: no

Edit: And now maybe it's not what they're saying. Again, see downthread .

That all looks right to me except for this one:

• An ionized Q-Wing (forthcoming in Wave 9) performs its compulsory ion 1 white straight. The Q-Wing's dial does contain a 1 white straight, the only small ship in the game to have one.
  • Lightning Reflexes: yes

In the rules reference, the last bullet point under Activation Phase reads, "If a ship does not reveal a maneuver dial when it becomes the active ship during this phase, such as due to the effect of being ionized, it does not trigger any abilities related to maneuver dials." So the contents of your dial don't matter when you're ionized. If your ship doesn't reveal a dial, you can't use any abilities that reference its dial.

Pandademic: that may turn out to be the way it goes, but currently I think the prohibition on maneuver-dial-dependent effects when you don't reveal a dial is meant to apply to things that are triggered by dial operations (e.g. dropping a Seismic Charge), not things that simply reference the dial.

The Q-Wing example is the one I'm most unsure about, though, so it could go either way. Sadly I'll have to wait until the Q-Wing is officially released before I can ask for a specific ruling on it.

Lightning Reflexes doesn't care if you revealed a dial so the Q-Wing thing should work.

Lightning reflexes should also work after a SLAM (if you could find a ship with both EPT and SLAM) or after using Daredevil (A-Wing with 2 EPTs).

Any of the cards that say you may treat a maneuver as something else will work (Nien Nunb, R2, Damaged Engine, TIE Mk.II, Tetran Cowell) for the check to see if the maneuver performed is on the dial. Wording that lets you change alter the move (Juno) would not. Cards that allow you to do a maneuver using an alternate template would also pass this check (IG88D does a 3 S-Loop but uses the 3 hard template, he still executed a 3 S-Loop).

Pandademic: that may turn out to be the way it goes, but currently I think the prohibition on maneuver-dial-dependent effects when you don't reveal a dial is meant to apply to things that are triggered by dial operations (e.g. dropping a Seismic Charge), not things that simply reference the dial.

The Q-Wing example is the one I'm most unsure about, though, so it could go either way. Sadly I'll have to wait until the Q-Wing is officially released before I can ask for a specific ruling on it.

"Abilities related to maneuver dials" isn't a category defined by the rules, so I'd interpret it at face value, personally. But if you want to ask for a ruling, there is already a scenario that would work: if a ship has an R2 astromech or Nien Nunb, its ionized 1 straight becomes green. Since that matches the green 1 straight on the dial, then Lightning Reflexes could potentially trigger off of the ion move.

Pandademic: that may turn out to be the way it goes, but currently I think the prohibition on maneuver-dial-dependent effects when you don't reveal a dial is meant to apply to things that are triggered by dial operations (e.g. dropping a Seismic Charge), not things that simply reference the dial.

The Q-Wing example is the one I'm most unsure about, though, so it could go either way. Sadly I'll have to wait until the Q-Wing is officially released before I can ask for a specific ruling on it.

"Abilities related to maneuver dials" isn't a category defined by the rules, so I'd interpret it at face value, personally. But if you want to ask for a ruling, there is already a scenario that would work: if a ship has an R2 astromech or Nien Nunb, its ionized 1 straight becomes green. Since that matches the green 1 straight on the dial, then Lightning Reflexes could potentially trigger off of the ion move.

Good point! I may have to check that particular corner case.

Here's the reply I just got on a Lightning Reflexes question.

In response to your rules question:

Rules Question:

I have a question about Lightning Reflexes. Suppose a T-65 X-Wing with Lightning Reflexes is ionized. I understand from the most recent FAQ that after executing the ion white straight 1 maneuver, the X-Wing is not eligible to activate Lightning Reflexes. I think this is because the X-Wing's dial does not contain a white straight 1 maneuver. If the X-Wing in question is equipped with an R2 Astromech, making the ion white straight 1 maneuver green, is Lightning Reflexes now available, because the X-Wing dial does contain a green straight 1 maneuver? Or is it still not available because the maneuver was imposed by the ion rules, rather than assigned from its dial?

Lightning Reflexes cannot be used when a ship is ionized not because the maneuver is not on the dial, but because the maneuver was not assigned from its dial. In other words, no ship will ever be able to use Lightning Reflexes from the straight white 1 maneuver from being ionized.

So it looks like Lightning Reflexes could be errata'd to read "a white or green maneuver on from your dial....".

Of course I now have no idea how the Juno thing is supposed to work, because now apparently there's a difference between "a maneuver that is present on your dial but that was imposed on you by the ion rules" and "a maneuver that is present on your dial but that isn't the one you revealed" and "a maneuver that isn't present on your dial."

I could see it being consistent if a Juno-altered maneuver always borks Lightning Reflexes, i.e. if we take all Lightning Reflexes-related references to "on your dial" to mean "the one and only maneuver that you revealed this turn." If that's the case, they could have worded the Juno part of the FAQ a lot better, because right now it really seems like they care about whether the new maneuver would otherwise be available to her.

If that's the case, I wonder if we treat abilities that say they rotate the dial after it's revealed (e.g. SoT) differently than abilities that say they alter that maneuver (e.g. Juno). Could a Q-Wing Test Pilot (three EPT slots) with Adrenaline Rush, Stay on Target, and Lightning Reflexes reveal a maneuver, use SoT to rotate it to another, use Adrenaline Rush to treat the new maneuver as white, and then use Lightning Reflexes?

I'll be updating the original post to include this information.

Man, this q-wing is completely OP

Here's the reply I just got on a Lightning Reflexes question.

In response to your rules question:

Rules Question:

I have a question about Lightning Reflexes. Suppose a T-65 X-Wing with Lightning Reflexes is ionized. I understand from the most recent FAQ that after executing the ion white straight 1 maneuver, the X-Wing is not eligible to activate Lightning Reflexes. I think this is because the X-Wing's dial does not contain a white straight 1 maneuver. If the X-Wing in question is equipped with an R2 Astromech, making the ion white straight 1 maneuver green, is Lightning Reflexes now available, because the X-Wing dial does contain a green straight 1 maneuver? Or is it still not available because the maneuver was imposed by the ion rules, rather than assigned from its dial?

Lightning Reflexes cannot be used when a ship is ionized not because the maneuver is not on the dial, but because the maneuver was not assigned from its dial. In other words, no ship will ever be able to use Lightning Reflexes from the straight white 1 maneuver from being ionized.

If that's the case, I wonder if we treat abilities that say they rotate the dial after it's revealed (e.g. SoT) differently than abilities that say they alter that maneuver (e.g. Juno). Could a Q-Wing Test Pilot (three EPT slots) with Adrenaline Rush, Stay on Target, and Lightning Reflexes reveal a maneuver, use SoT to rotate it to another, use Adrenaline Rush to treat the new maneuver as white, and then use Lightning Reflexes?

I'll be updating the original post to include this information.

Where is the information on the Q-Wing you speak of? I've not seen anything about it, or Wave IX. When was this?

Here's the reply I just got on a Lightning Reflexes question.

In response to your rules question:

Rules Question:

I have a question about Lightning Reflexes. Suppose a T-65 X-Wing with Lightning Reflexes is ionized. I understand from the most recent FAQ that after executing the ion white straight 1 maneuver, the X-Wing is not eligible to activate Lightning Reflexes. I think this is because the X-Wing's dial does not contain a white straight 1 maneuver. If the X-Wing in question is equipped with an R2 Astromech, making the ion white straight 1 maneuver green, is Lightning Reflexes now available, because the X-Wing dial does contain a green straight 1 maneuver? Or is it still not available because the maneuver was imposed by the ion rules, rather than assigned from its dial?

Lightning Reflexes cannot be used when a ship is ionized not because the maneuver is not on the dial, but because the maneuver was not assigned from its dial. In other words, no ship will ever be able to use Lightning Reflexes from the straight white 1 maneuver from being ionized.

So it looks like Lightning Reflexes could be errata'd to read "a white or green maneuver on from your dial....".

Of course I now have no idea how the Juno thing is supposed to work, because now apparently there's a difference between "a maneuver that is present on your dial but that was imposed on you by the ion rules" and "a maneuver that is present on your dial but that isn't the one you revealed" and "a maneuver that isn't present on your dial."

I could see it being consistent if a Juno-altered maneuver always borks Lightning Reflexes, i.e. if we take all Lightning Reflexes-related references to "on your dial" to mean "the one and only maneuver that you revealed this turn." If that's the case, they could have worded the Juno part of the FAQ a lot better, because right now it really seems like they care about whether the new maneuver would otherwise be available to her.

If that's the case, I wonder if we treat abilities that say they rotate the dial after it's revealed (e.g. SoT) differently than abilities that say they alter that maneuver (e.g. Juno). Could a Q-Wing Test Pilot (three EPT slots) with Adrenaline Rush, Stay on Target, and Lightning Reflexes reveal a maneuver, use SoT to rotate it to another, use Adrenaline Rush to treat the new maneuver as white, and then use Lightning Reflexes?

I'll be updating the original post to include this information.

I would send a follow up email asking for clarification that includes the text of Lightning Reflexes. There's nothing there that would suggest that Lightning Reflexes requires a dial to be set.

That answer also keeps a future ship with an EPT and the SLAM action from using Lightning Reflexes on the maneuver granted by the SLAM action.

--Snip--

Where is the information on the Q-Wing you speak of? I've not seen anything about it, or Wave IX. When was this?

--Snip--

Where is the information on the Q-Wing you speak of? I've not seen anything about it, or Wave IX. When was this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bztY0SOV9zg

In other words, I made it up for the purposes of concocting rules scenarios.

WWHSD: I sent a follow up email right away.

I hope they either errat Lighting Reflexes to simply executing a white or green maneuver thus working with anything that allows you to alter your maneuver or it only works if you execute a white or green maneuver straight from your dial (I guess this would allow Navigator to work with Lightening Reflexes).

On 06/10/2015 at 10:29 AM, WWHSD said:

I would send a follow up email asking for clarification that includes the text of Lightning Reflexes. There's nothing there that would suggest that Lightning Reflexes requires a dial to be set.

That answer also keeps a future ship with an EPT and the SLAM action from using Lightning Reflexes on the maneuver granted by the SLAM action.

necro-ing this for the gunboat. lightning reflexing the slam maneuver is amazing!

Same question applies to adrenaline rush for the 4 straight.

advanced slam mod and lightning reflexes, is this right?

reveal dial, maneuvre

action slam, maneuvre

advanced slam mod, take an action

lightning reflexes, flip 180, take a stress

No. Lightning Reflexes takes place after the check pilot stress step which is strictly before the perform action step.

'After blah' means 'immediately after blah before doing anything else*' in X-Wing.

*Unless it's After Attacking, and it's an attack ability, in which case all non-attack abilities come first, or your opponent has initiative and an ability with the same trigger.

10 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

No. Lightning Reflexes takes place after the check pilot stress step which is strictly before the perform action step.

I agree that LR is before the perform action step, but after a SLAM there is no perform action step, and I can't see how "after executing a maneuver" and "after performing a SLAM action" are not simultaneous.

11 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

No. Lightning Reflexes takes place after the check pilot stress step which is strictly before the perform action step.

I'm afraid you're wrong this time, Spacey. Lightning Reflexes' trigger is 'After you execute a manoeuvre'. Since the SLAM action card ostensibly makes performing a SLAM action and performing a manoeuvre the same thing, then both effects at the same time, meaning you can choose which triggers first.

Quote

Performing a SLAM counts as executing a maneuver.

And it gives stress after the check pilot stress step.

As written it's just broken.

3 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

And it gives stress after the check pilot stress step.

As written it's just broken.

At the time it was written, it worked fine. It's the rule change when the TFA rulebook came out that broke it.