I'm a little surprised by the dramatic change in the rules FFG has handed down. Many in the forum are only thinking about how this will "balance" Fat Han. I have seen some talk about how this unjustly punishes the Vader crew card. What I'm not seeing is thoughts on who the real winner is and the possible NEGATIVE effect this will have on the meta.

Hello B-wing! 5 shields, 3 hull and all for 22 points. You've got to eat through all of that in 60 to 75 minutes to score those points too! You thought the meta was stale before? Now I fear we're just going to see small based ships that gain you the most hitpoints for the fewest squad points. It's a short list....

While I think B's get some help from this, I think TLT Y wings are the real winner in all this....

While I think B's get some help from this, I think TLT Y wings are the real winner in all this....

No doubt Y-wings are on the short list as well. 8 hitpoints and a base of 18 points! Get ready for 4 Ys with TLTs or Ions, because they will be everywhere. Now, 4 Y-wings can beat two Firesprays simply by ioning both 4 times...

Double-ace and obsidian swarm can check the B's now that turret 2-ship lists aren't eating them for lunch.

Edit: Assuming that Alex Davy comment about games that don't go to time is real.

Double-ace and obsidian swarm can check the B's now that turret 2-ship lists aren't eating them for lunch.

I fully expect the return of the TIE swarm with all the new toys (and new TIE/fo) out there.

Double-ace and obsidian swarm can check the B's now that turret 2-ship lists aren't eating them for lunch.

Edit: Assuming that Alex Davy comment about games that don't go to time is real.

What did he say about games going to time?

Thing is, you can't point fort a B-wing very well. Their strength isn't survivability, it's survivability for cost.

Four B-wings is a lot of health to chew through, but you lose MoV in four increments, not two.

Huge boost to Miranda as well. She can be just as hard to finish off as Han or Chewie, and can be fortressed to nearly the same amount of points.

Thing is, you can't point fort a B-wing very well. Their strength isn't survivability, it's survivability for cost.

Four B-wings is a lot of health to chew through, but you lose MoV in four increments, not two.

And you've made my point as why B-wings are the winner of this nerf.

Double-ace and obsidian swarm can check the B's now that turret 2-ship lists aren't eating them for lunch.

Edit: Assuming that Alex Davy comment about games that don't go to time is real.

Please elaborate for those of us who don't know what Mr. Davy said.

Double-ace and obsidian swarm can check the B's now that turret 2-ship lists aren't eating them for lunch.

Edit: Assuming that Alex Davy comment about games that don't go to time is real.

Please elaborate for those of us who don't know what Mr. Davy said.

Like I said I don't know where it originated. But the two options have vastly different effects on point fortressing.

B-wings have 1 green die with no damage mitigation tricks like the falcon. All low-cost, high efficiency ships love this change.

And I will say this very slowly Large. Ship. Boost. This change (I refuse to call it a nerf because it does not change how the ship flies just how scoring works. Non-tourney players don't give two beans) is one way to make large ship boosts less annoying as a game round closes.

4B vs brobots etc. If you both do say 60% damage to the opposing list resulting in one dead B and a severely wounded aggressor is no longer a full win for the brobots. This is a good thing. Replace 4B with 8 ties. Losing a couple Tie's does not auto lose the game due to MOV. All good stuff.

B-wings are just a good example of a points efficient ship. They do not need the same sort of partial scoring.

1/2 health Han has 5 hull and maybe 3PO, evade token, and R2. And he can run like a rabbit with EU.

1/2 health B-wing has 3 hull and 1 shield. A B-wing can't run away from a 3-legged sloth.

as above

anyone who thinks 8 hp is even a little tough to chew through hasn't played b-wings

the real reason they're difficult to chew through is because a direct approach lands you face first into a total of 12+ dice

they're dependable (8 health, 1 agility) not durable

the TLT ys will be much better m.o.v whores, but really no one could ever hope to compare to the fat ships. It's like comparing pebbles to pluto

I'd hardly call it a "dramatic" change, especially seeing as it makes such a positive difference when facing Han or Chiraneau at 60+ points apiece.

B-Wings aren't in a better spot as a result, honestly, because they've always been effective for cost. I honestly don't think 4BZ is going to be wildly more popular now that more list options are viable (Swarms and 3-4 Ace builds in particular will see to that).

I would argue the Bounty Hunter and Omicron Group Pilot are actually quite fine with the change, they don't usually see more than 3 upgrade points anyway. For example take the Doomshuttle, an Omicron Group Pilot with Vader onboard. The cost of two TIEs or Headhunters, but between the 3ATK, 10HP, and Vader's crits, I would argue that it offers greater damage potential. PLUS, when half-dead, the shuttle continues to hit just as hard, vs. now a single 2ATK ship, and they've given up the same MOV.

I can see how you'd argue the FCS Blue B-Wing might be a better option for the same cost since it doesn't lose half its value halfway through its health, but honestly I don't know how often the twelve points tied up in a half-dead B-Wing would've made a difference when a game goes to time. Especially with 4BZ, since that list is so brutally effective anyway. Plus they're still focussed down as quickly as ever. I fail to see how they've "won" from this, sorry?

I've never once looked across the table at a list with 4 B-Wings and thought this was unfair. Sure, it's got 8 HP, but off of 1 agility and few tricks to extend its life. Fat turrets can burn in the fiery hell they created for the meta. The thing I'm curious about is whether or not the average fat turret player can effectively move on. Heaver and the other top players won't blink an eye. The average goofball who hides behind 3PO, R2, and title will have to actually learn to play... at least until the next exploit is found.

And for the record, this ruling may help other "mid-size" ships (K-Wing, TIE Punisher, Mist Hunter, Y-Wing) just as much and perhaps thrust them into a tank role. Be more concerned about Poe Dameron with Autothrusters, Lone Wolf, and R2D2/R5P9 instead, as tanky ships go.

No, the winners are generally all small ships, including B-wings

Reminder: this change only matters in tournament swiss rounds, that's it.

Losers that deserve to lose

1. Fat Han

2. Decimators (especially DeciVaders)

3. Brobots

Losers that didn't probably deserve to lose

1. Boba or Kath

Sorta Kinda losers but... meh?

1. YV-666 (1/2 dead is mostly dead anyway)

Winners that didn't really need to win

1. Miranda with 3PO

Winners that deserved to win

1. Every. Other. Ship.

Personally I'm too scared to field triple or quad B-wings anymore because of all the TLTs and Mirandas - both of which seem like they can outrun B-wings with or without Unhinged.

I'm not confident B-wings have the speed necessary to get into that donut hole or chase down Miranda.

Z95s on the other hand...

z-95s are far worse off than Bs

reason being: TLT ships are slower than you'd believe, and so in order to get any sort of leg up on enemies they have to make expert use out of obstacle fields

Bs can navigate those pretty well because barrel-roll is the ****

z-95s? so sad

Personally I'm too scared to field triple or quad B-wings anymore because of all the TLTs and Mirandas - both of which seem like they can outrun B-wings with or without Unhinged.

I'm not confident B-wings have the speed necessary to get into that donut hole or chase down Miranda.

Z95s on the other hand...

B's have some of the cheapest hit points around though. I fly BBBBZ all the time in tourneys and quad TLT doesn't scare a great deal. I am considering AC/DC (4 accuracy corrector tempests and dark curse) as a change of pace though. I think AC/DC will steal quad TLT's lunch money.

Also the introduction of Adv Homing Missile and the increase in points efficiency to proton bombs will help keep Bs in line.

I've never once looked across the table at a list with 4 B-Wings and thought this was unfair. Sure, it's got 8 HP, but off of 1 agility and few tricks to extend its life. Fat turrets can burn in the fiery hell they created for the meta. The thing I'm curious about is whether or not the average fat turret player can effectively move on. Heaver and the other top players won't blink an eye. The average goofball who hides behind 3PO, R2, and title will have to actually learn to play... at least until the next exploit is found.

And for the record, this ruling may help other "mid-size" ships (K-Wing, TIE Punisher, Mist Hunter, Y-Wing) just as much and perhaps thrust them into a tank role. Be more concerned about Poe Dameron with Autothrusters, Lone Wolf, and R2D2/R5P9 instead, as tanky ships go.

Wow...

I will have to say that I ran Latts with 3 Khiraxz last weekend and the only list that completely pwned me was Boba and 2 TLT Unhinged Y's

Yeah doubling down on Proton Bombs and Adv. Homing Missiles as a K-Wing or Punisher is going to be delicious against Bs and Ys in general. Especially with the new Damage Deck.

I'm just excited that there's options again, and I can go back to mixing plays in my list. 50% B-Wings, 25% Headhunters, 25% Biggs....or maybe 50% TLTs and Poe and a Bandit. Or 60% Headhunters and 40% HLC (WSF or Farlander or something!). These are very exciting times now.

Also I think blocks of Zs will be kinda popular for some people, 4-5 Headhunters can chip away at TLT carriers in much the same fashion the TLTs would, with bonuses as far as green dice, shields, and blocking are concerned. I'll throw two Headhunters at one B or Y any day. PLUS! New tiny rocks! Very happy as an old Swarm player.

z-95s are far worse off than Bs

reason being: TLT ships are slower than you'd believe, and so in order to get any sort of leg up on enemies they have to make expert use out of obstacle fields

Bs can navigate those pretty well because barrel-roll is the ****

z-95s? so sad

I'll say again, Zs don't care about obstacles. So long you can fly them through asteriods so you can shoot, they don't care.

EDIT: Or at the very least, I don't care too much.