4 Gamma Tie Bombers with Homing Missiles and Extra Munitions. Alpha Strike should see one Y-wing dead and another seriously hurt.

Good flying is what counters quad TLTs.

That's seriously all it takes...

Unless you brought a Decimator. In which case; too bad.

well, not entirely

that fat boost will take you into range 1 right quick

so good flying still counters em

Good flying is what counters quad TLTs.

That's seriously all it takes...

Unless you brought a Decimator. In which case; too bad.

well, not entirely

that fat boost will take you into range 1 right quick

so good flying still counters em

Oicunn would be fun here...

Anything that can kill a Y before it gets to shoot back. Obsidian swarm comes to mind.

Psycho Tycho is pretty good against them. He can DD and Boost to control the range of each engagement. As such, he can get in R1 of some, and stay out of R3 of others. If his green dice fail him, he only takes one damage, so while he has two opportunities to flop each attack, he can't be struck down completely. Which leads me to believe that Jake and Fel also have similar strengths against TLT swarms.

Given, this all comes back to what has been said before - good flying counters TLTs.

Jonus Brothers should be pretty decent. Might consider Onyxes. That's 18 hit points, 12 of those behind 3 greens. PS3 and 6, so moves last and shoots first, can slow roll decently, re-rolls two dice per HLC, and with white Ks can be focused at all times. Just try to keep Jonus out of range of the Ys on the first pass.

Making up counter-TLT lists is fun. The hard part is making them good at anything other than TLT's. Here's one that would probably be terrible for any other purpose:

Carnor Jax (33)

TIE Interceptor (26), Lone Wolf (2), Royal Guard TIE (0), Autothrusters (2), Stealth Device (3)

Sigma Squadron Pilot (33) x 2
TIE Phantom (25), Sensor Jammer (4), Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

---

One of my favorite things in X-Wing is flying into a formation with Jax and wrecking stuff. This build of Jax gives up PTL for Lone Wolf, which should improve his durability. While Jax is making a mess of things, two Sigma Squadron Pilots are flitting around at range three throwing around four dice at a time then disappearing. Between their cloak, SJ, and Jax, they shouldn't be taking a lot of damage.

replace ACD with stygium and intelligence agent

**** green dice stealth device and get a shield upgrade (also PTL)

boom, instant good list

Got a tourney this weekend and trying to decide between BBBBZ, AC/DC, or just four tempests with AC and cluster missiles. I think I just convinced myself that 4 sets of cluster missiles is more fun than Dark Curse. Might even be tempted to do two sets of prockets and 2 cluster missiles to make sure I shoot before other swarms...

Making up counter-TLT lists is fun. The hard part is making them good at anything other than TLT's. Here's one that would probably be terrible for any other purpose:

Carnor Jax (33)

TIE Interceptor (26), Lone Wolf (2), Royal Guard TIE (0), Autothrusters (2), Stealth Device (3)

Sigma Squadron Pilot (33) x 2

TIE Phantom (25), Sensor Jammer (4), Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

---

One of my favorite things in X-Wing is flying into a formation with Jax and wrecking stuff. This build of Jax gives up PTL for Lone Wolf, which should improve his durability. While Jax is making a mess of things, two Sigma Squadron Pilots are flitting around at range three throwing around four dice at a time then disappearing. Between their cloak, SJ, and Jax, they shouldn't be taking a lot of damage.

A very similar squad has been run by a darthlurker on this forum. He's run it pretty successfully in Spanish and French national competitions. His has PTL, Autothrusters, and Shield on Jax, and Stygium with Sensor Jammer and Intelligence Agent on his two Sigmas. So it's not bad against other things if flown properly.

A lot of theory here but the fact is that they really dominate tournaments - so it's not only good flying that solves the case. I'd rather read how you actually won against them, not what you think might be good. I am sure the number of posts would dwindle dramatically.

It's 24 attack dice and even high ag ships get their share of damage. I SUPPOSE 2 Agressors might be a good try. However, anything with ag1 gets decimated.

Making up counter-TLT lists is fun. The hard part is making them good at anything other than TLT's. Here's one that would probably be terrible for any other purpose:

Carnor Jax (33)

TIE Interceptor (26), Lone Wolf (2), Royal Guard TIE (0), Autothrusters (2), Stealth Device (3)

Sigma Squadron Pilot (33) x 2

TIE Phantom (25), Sensor Jammer (4), Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

---

One of my favorite things in X-Wing is flying into a formation with Jax and wrecking stuff. This build of Jax gives up PTL for Lone Wolf, which should improve his durability. While Jax is making a mess of things, two Sigma Squadron Pilots are flitting around at range three throwing around four dice at a time then disappearing. Between their cloak, SJ, and Jax, they shouldn't be taking a lot of damage.

A very similar squad has been run by a darthlurker on this forum. He's run it pretty successfully in Spanish and French national competitions. His has PTL, Autothrusters, and Shield on Jax, and Stygium with Sensor Jammer and Intelligence Agent on his two Sigmas. So it's not bad against other things if flown properly.

I'm currently running this, with a fair amount of success against lots of lists including TLTs:

Basically, the goal is to have Palpatine hang back for support and sniping while Jax and Echo attempt to get into Range 1 on different TLTs. If the turrets stick together they get torn up really quickly; if they split up, they're left unable to concentrate their own fire and facing either Sensor Jammer or Autothrusters.

A lot of theory here but the fact is that they really dominate tournaments - so it's not only good flying that solves the case. I'd rather read how you actually won against them, not what you think might be good. I am sure the number of posts would dwindle dramatically.

It's 24 attack dice and even high ag ships get their share of damage. I SUPPOSE 2 Agressors might be a good try. However, anything with ag1 gets decimated.

it's not 24 attack dice

that's disingenuous, given the damage caps at 1 per shot. now 6 phantoms? that's 24 attack dice. The difference is that four TLTs have to hit with every shot to one round a B-wing

and none of my statements are theory. I've been playing TLTs religiously for some time now, especially Miranda w/c3po. They're slow, clunky, low PS ships that hate range 1. Use this knowledge against them

A PS 3 swarm of any kind will ruin Quad TLT lists. I like the extra HP you get with z95's hear. Tala's and Blacksun's would be solid.

Sensor Jammers, Lone Wolf and Autothrusters, and Flight Instructor are cards that can work for every attack which make them very strong counters. Guri seems like a great pick for this. You could try Whisper with Sensor Jammer, Lone Wolf, Flight Instructor and Advanced Cloaking Device. I think she will ruin Quad TLT's day.

Green Squadron A-Wings with Proton Rockets are great.

Ion Control will also ruin these guys. Agility 1 ships hate seeing ion turrets. Theres lots more I'm sure. TLT is new and it will just take time to find ways around it.

So dangerous the TLT swarm is, but so many counters

A lot of theory here but the fact is that they really dominate tournaments - so it's not only good flying that solves the case. I'd rather read how you actually won against them, not what you think might be good. I am sure the number of posts would dwindle dramatically.

It's 24 attack dice and even high ag ships get their share of damage. I SUPPOSE 2 Agressors might be a good try. However, anything with ag1 gets decimated.

Keep in mind, Wave 7 has been out for 3 weeks. It is far too early to determine the effects on the meta. Though, if the Nova Open was any indication, you will see a good amount of TLTs, just not necessarily 4 TLT Y-wings.

Making up counter-TLT lists is fun. The hard part is making them good at anything other than TLT's. Here's one that would probably be terrible for any other purpose:

Carnor Jax (33)

TIE Interceptor (26), Lone Wolf (2), Royal Guard TIE (0), Autothrusters (2), Stealth Device (3)

Sigma Squadron Pilot (33) x 2

TIE Phantom (25), Sensor Jammer (4), Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

---

One of my favorite things in X-Wing is flying into a formation with Jax and wrecking stuff. This build of Jax gives up PTL for Lone Wolf, which should improve his durability. While Jax is making a mess of things, two Sigma Squadron Pilots are flitting around at range three throwing around four dice at a time then disappearing. Between their cloak, SJ, and Jax, they shouldn't be taking a lot of damage.

A very similar squad has been run by a darthlurker on this forum. He's run it pretty successfully in Spanish and French national competitions. His has PTL, Autothrusters, and Shield on Jax, and Stygium with Sensor Jammer and Intelligence Agent on his two Sigmas. So it's not bad against other things if flown properly.

I'm currently running this, with a fair amount of success against lots of lists including TLTs:

"Echo" (30)

Veteran Instincts (1)

Sensor Jammer (4)

Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

Carnor Jax (26)

Push the Limit (3)

Autothrusters (2)

Royal Guard TIE (0)

Omicron Group Pilot (21)

Emperor Palpatine (8)

Total: 99

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Basically, the goal is to have Palpatine hang back for support and sniping while Jax and Echo attempt to get into Range 1 on different TLTs. If the turrets stick together they get torn up really quickly; if they split up, they're left unable to concentrate their own fire and facing either Sensor Jammer or Autothrusters.

I like the list. I've definitely been thinking about Palpatine with a Phantom.

So dangerous the TLT swarm is, but so many counters

the word you're looking for is "balanced"

I imagine 4 Tempests + AC + Cluster Missiles would be worrisome.

Also, Poe Dameron. The T-70 in general.

Dropping a Y-wing and severely wounding a second in the opening engagement is certainly an easy way to counter a Y-wing, and being able to evade every turn after that helps for the "long haul"

I am interested in actually getting to face the full TLT swarm. I have a feeling that it's weaknesses (despite its power) may keep it from being wholly top tier, but that you will see double TLT Ys or HWKs as frequent accompaniment to centerpiece ship. We'll see...

I haven't played against quad tlt but I've played against 2-3 tlts with my Vader, palp shuttle, flavorful 34 other ship list and other than Horton tlts really don't have a great way to make sure they're hitting you. The average 3 dice give hit, focus, blank and that only gets modified once usually so if you can dodge 2 hits then 1 hit you're safe most of the time. Vader kitted out is good enough to 2 round a y wing usually when he cruises into range 1 and he's not getting shot by whomever he's assassinating. He can also tank a few rounds because he has 5 hp to spend.

Am I insane to consider taking 4 Storm Squadron pilots to a tournament Saturday? Moving after and shooting before all the swarms sounds pretty good. Got room for 2 sets of clusters or 1 cluster and Tie MkII's on all.

Quad TLTs have a couple of weaknesses. First is that they have a rather low damage output. So while they can do 2 damage per attack take 4 and that is only 8 damage. Enough to take out another Y-wing assuming each shot hits. But again that is a small number of damage for a 4 ship list as 4 B-wing or X-wing can do up to 12 or more if any direct hits come up.

Second is pretty obvious but the range 1 hole. This allows for some maneuverable ships to close in the gap. Sure if positioned properly each ship would be covered by the other three but you still could fit a couple of arc dodgers and focus one down. Once enemy ships start leaving the table Arc dodgers start to gain free reign.

Third is the point cost. TLT are expensive. So much that to take 4 of them is going to limit your options to low pilot skill generics. With higher pilot skill you can be able to take out one before it attacks knocking it down from 8 maximum damage to 6 maximum damage where a B-wing can survive.

Last but not least is reoccurring effects have greater value. focus tokens are not as good unless you have 2 of them. Thing about turret carrying ships they can get 2 focus tokens fairly easy. Here high agility ships have a better chance against TLTs than low agility ships and upgrades like autothrusters or lone wolf really can make a difference.

The reoccurring theme of hard counters to over strength game objects has gotten old. Having only recently faced a full TLT swarm for the first time, after seeing TLT support ships since gen con repeatedly, my opinion is the best way to deal with them is to not play against them. If I have an opportunity to lose before I show up at the game due to list construction, the game can not be measured for victory based on my ability to play it. If I wanted to play a game of logic gates I would work on circuit trouble shooting.

All that said, if your looking for counters you should forget play technique on these being your first approach, and sit down and do the math first. Hopefully you got the skill and desire to. Many have already given you what you need: sensor jammers, all around higher PS, ability to remove one each turn, auto thrusters, etc. Once you have a list that beats then, and still competes with everything else (which will be the tricky part) you can analyze how you'll fly it.

Pessimistic, maybe. Realistic, absolutely.

The reoccurring theme of hard counters to over strength game objects has gotten old. Having only recently faced a full TLT swarm for the first time, after seeing TLT support ships since gen con repeatedly, my opinion is the best way to deal with them is to not play against them. If I have an opportunity to lose before I show up at the game due to list construction, the game can not be measured for victory based on my ability to play it. If I wanted to play a game of logic gates I would work on circuit trouble shooting.

we are talking about TLTs, right? Not pwts

The reoccurring theme of hard counters to over strength game objects has gotten old.

I don't think anything is an automatic loss to TLT spam. If you're used to flying a two-ship list with points divided 60/40 between a Large turret and a small arc-dodger, you are going to get hit pretty hard--you'll lose a lot of games, though by no means all. If you're trying to fly three small elite ships, especially X-wings, you're going to lose a lot of games.

But pretty much everything else is actually going to do okay. TLT lists aren't all that maneuverable, since the ships that can take them typically lack the ability to adjust their movement as an action, and have moderate to poor default dials. TLT lists have a lot of hit points, but they don't have much Agility, so you have a good idea whether you can hit them and how long it's going to take to kill them. TLT lists typically more early and fire late, so it's easy to outmaneuver them and easy to kill them before they jump you.

Looking back at the Phantom, the problem was that the most obvious and easiest counter to the Phantom was a high-PS turret. The rest of the counters took a lot more thought to find and a lot more work to pull off, which meant we saw a lot of high-PS turrets.

Maybe it's because it's early in the TLT's life, but I can't see it the same way. Everything at PS3 or better is a counter. Everything that swarms is a counter. Everything that shoots ordnance is a counter. Everything that can use a system slot or has boost or has a crew slot is a counter. The Phantom had one obvious, easy counter, but TLTs have half a dozen off the top of my head.