Been working on builds to take out the so-far dominating four Y-wings, each with Unhinged Astromech and Twin Laser Turret. A build that isn't an expected arc-dodger with auto-thrusters setup.

It's a Scum setup for 99/100 points.

Talonbane Cobra: Predator, Assault Missiles, Glitterstim, and Engine Upgrade for 42 points.

3x Binayre Pirate Z-95s, each decked out with: Assault Missiles, and Dead Man's Switch (When you are destroyed, each ship at range 1 suffers 1 damage).

The four TLT Y-wings I have seen typically fly in a semi-tight formation so that they can have overlapping fields of fire, and may break formation later depending on the situation. The idea behind this is to unload the assault missiles from all four ships -- particularly the Z-95s -- on the Y-wings. The primary target, assuming he's targeted by all four ships, is more than likely to be taken out in the opening salvo. Then, assuming all four missiles hit, the other three Y-wings take 3-4 unavoidable damage, getting rid of their shields. Then, once the missiles are fired, the Z-95s' jobs are to a.) block actions b.) stay within range one to both attack and to be intentionally destroyed to dish out free damage to the remaining Y-wings and c.) keep some of that nasty TLT heat off of Talonbane so he can mop-up whoever is left once the last Z-95 suicide bomber falls, using engine upgrade to get in close to take advantage of his bonus die ability, and using predator make certain that he deals max damage (as the pilots used for TLT Y-wings is a level 2 pilot, letting him re-roll two dice instead of one). In addition to that, even though it doesn't matter against the Y-wings, that last unused point will help to give me initiative.

So what do you all think? Can this build work as well as it sounds in my head? Part of me feels that Push the Limit might be a better option, so he can boost, use PTL to take a target lock or focus, and the combine TL/Focus with his extra range 1 bonus. Either that, or another upgrade instead of engine upgrade.

Basically every swarm, ties notably due to high agi. Zs are a bit worse cause with 2 agi you can down 1 ship every turn, while speeding 3 away you can dodge some arcs.

Your list can work if you manage to pull that alpha strike, but like i said y with droids became really speedy.

Plus that list can be obliterated by other lists, trick is to make a list that works well vs 4tlt while not getting smacked by others.

The problem is that binayre pirates are PS1, so they move first and cannot get a TL in the first turn. So the likely scenario is that you move your zeds and focus. The turrets move next, into shooting range and focus too. Talonbane then gets to go and can grab a TL and should have no trouble shooting an unmodified assault missile if you choose to. If you get lucky and it hits (not unreasonable, 4 unmodified red vs 1 focus green) then you probably knock 1 or 2 shields off the target, plus 1 off the other y-wings if they are in range 1. But then the y-wings shoot next and if talonbane is in range of all 4, he will probably die, even with his bonus green die at range 3 because all of his dice are unmodified.

Next turn, your zeds can now grab target locks, but again, the y-wings shoot first so are likely to kill one before it gets off its assault missile. Now you have 2 zeds left vs 4 y-wings, so even if you fire the assault missiles and destroy one, your looking at 3 y's vs 2 z's---very bad odds.

Even if you upgrade the binayres to blacksun soldiers, I still don't think this is a good list to deal wtih turrets, because all they have to do to negate the assault missiles is spread their ships out more...

The Dead Mans Switches also don't make much sense. When you die versus TLTs you usually won't be at range 1 when going down.

Not to say that Cobra won't even get a bonus green on Range 3 because the TLTs are secondary weapons... So he is pretty much guaranteed to die the first turn of the engagement. He will probably cause 5-6 damage if he gets his missiles off, but TLT Y-Wings are not forced to fly formation especially against 4 Assault missiles.

Found a use for Graz:

Guri (39)

StarViper (30), Lone Wolf (2), Virago (1), Autothrusters (2), Sensor Jammer (4)

Graz the Hunter (30)
Kihraxz (25), Glitterstim (2), Stealth Device (3)

Kavil (30)
Y-Wing (24), Autoblaster Turret (2), Unhinged Astromech (1), Predator (3)

---

Guri gets in close, uses LW, AT, and SJ to stay alive.

Graz jousts the group and relies on green dice to stay alive. Expect him to go down quickly but between a jouster and an arc-dodger hitting the group simultaneously you can expect your opponent to make some mistakes.

Kavil harries the group, taking 3 turns with them and potentially bumping every round but with Predator will have two re-rolls every shot and potentially a whole extra dice if Kavil can be smart about how he follows the group.

Similar topic here: https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/188437-post-tlt-scum-list-thoughts/

IG's and Guri (with 3 AGI) taking sensor jammer AND autothrusters (and hopefully lone wolf for defensive re-rolls) can give tlt's a run for their money.

4x TLT Y Wings are the new monster build.

The alternative being my TLT Panic Attack list.

They screw over arc dodgers and force a arms race where the player with the highest total of shield and hull will probably win.

The 3 interceptor list with 9 life is dead in the water.

IMHO TLT is 2 points under-costed; it should be 8 points as they are a better bet than HLC.

Alternatively it should have been only range 1-2.

8pts would also limit them to 3 per list unless you took 4x HWKs.

I think TLT has broken the game somewhat. Sure it can be beaten but any half decent player can get amazing results from them.

They nullify both the big and small ships as they can focus fire and near guarantee a casualty per round.

A Falcon or Decimator is dead in 2 rounds.

Soontir is now just a no-no

Brobots cannot outrun them, and with the new rules can be ignored after dropping them to half health.

auto thrusters will stop or slow TLT lists down

4x TLT Y Wings are the new monster build.

The alternative being my TLT Panic Attack list.

They screw over arc dodgers and force a arms race where the player with the highest total of shield and hull will probably win.

The 3 interceptor list with 9 life is dead in the water.

IMHO TLT is 2 points under-costed; it should be 8 points as they are a better bet than HLC.

Alternatively it should have been only range 1-2.

8pts would also limit them to 3 per list unless you took 4x HWKs.

I think TLT has broken the game somewhat. Sure it can be beaten but any half decent player can get amazing results from them.

They nullify both the big and small ships as they can focus fire and near guarantee a casualty per round.

A Falcon or Decimator is dead in 2 rounds.

Soontir is now just a no-no

Brobots cannot outrun them, and with the new rules can be ignored after dropping them to half health.

I disagree entirely. People just need time to adjust their flying to twin lasers. They have weaknesses and they are certainly not more powerful than an HLC. Throwing 4 attack dice where your opponent gets to evade once (and no r3 bonus) is going to deal slightly more damage than a twin laser turret (where you get to roll green dice twice). The difference is, you can't spam HLC as easily as TLT given the types of ships that can take them. The only way to get 4 HLC in a list is using the Scyk, and that ship struggles due to its lack of durability (especially compared to a y-wing, or even an HWK).

They absolutely do not counter Soontir or IG88's. Both ships are well equipped to destroy TLTs and survive the return fire. The key for their success is positioning. If a Twin Laser turret list gets to shoot all of his ships at a single ship, then yes, its going to die, regardless of what ship it is, but that frankly is a mistake made by the opposing player. When going up against a twin laser turret list, you absolutely cannot allow all 4 (or even 3) Twin lasers to focus fire on the same ship. Once people figure this out, the Twin Laser lists will not do as well as they may be doing now. As I said, there's going to be a bit of an adjustment period while people learn how to fly more carefully against them.

4x TLT Y Wings are the new monster build.

The alternative being my TLT Panic Attack list.

They screw over arc dodgers and force a arms race where the player with the highest total of shield and hull will probably win.

The 3 interceptor list with 9 life is dead in the water.

IMHO TLT is 2 points under-costed; it should be 8 points as they are a better bet than HLC.

Alternatively it should have been only range 1-2.

8pts would also limit them to 3 per list unless you took 4x HWKs.

I think TLT has broken the game somewhat. Sure it can be beaten but any half decent player can get amazing results from them.

They nullify both the big and small ships as they can focus fire and near guarantee a casualty per round.

A Falcon or Decimator is dead in 2 rounds.

Soontir is now just a no-no

Brobots cannot outrun them, and with the new rules can be ignored after dropping them to half health.

I disagree entirely. People just need time to adjust their flying to twin lasers. They have weaknesses and they are certainly not more powerful than an HLC. Throwing 4 attack dice where your opponent gets to evade once (and no r3 bonus) is going to deal slightly more damage than a twin laser turret (where you get to roll green dice twice). The difference is, you can't spam HLC as easily as TLT given the types of ships that can take them. The only way to get 4 HLC in a list is using the Scyk, and that ship struggles due to its lack of durability (especially compared to a y-wing, or even an HWK).

They absolutely do not counter Soontir or IG88's. Both ships are well equipped to destroy TLTs and survive the return fire. The key for their success is positioning. If a Twin Laser turret list gets to shoot all of his ships at a single ship, then yes, its going to die, regardless of what ship it is, but that frankly is a mistake made by the opposing player. When going up against a twin laser turret list, you absolutely cannot allow all 4 (or even 3) Twin lasers to focus fire on the same ship. Once people figure this out, the Twin Laser lists will not do as well as they may be doing now. As I said, there's going to be a bit of an adjustment period while people learn how to fly more carefully against them.

I'm with blade_merc on this one.

TLT isn't nearly as broken as people think it is. At the end of the day, you're chasing Y-wings and HWKs - not YT-2400s and IG-88s.

It really is all about positioning. Firesprays with EU can catch TLT ships very easily, and it's hard for Y-wings and HWKs to shake anything that can move quickly and/or reposition. That includes Soontir.

To further that point, control options like Ion Cannons make TLT Y-wings a joke when you're firing 3 reds vs 1 green.

auto thrusters will stop or slow TLT lists down

On low HP ships they are not enough though. Interceptors with Autothrusters still crumble under the weight of the attacks. Yes even Soontir will start taking damage if you direct 8 Attacks at him.

I think the Solution might be to just plain outdamage them while slowing the bleed as good as possible.

I would go with the new T-70. Autotrusters, 6HP and 2 evade will mean that not every attack will hit. I would say even 4 Y- Wings firing at one ship would have a hard time downing it right away.

Combine that with boost and you can get one or two ships into some donuts. You also have 9-12 attack dice per turn which is sufficient to kill Y-Wings fast.

The option to take shield regeneration on droids is also pretty viable in this case.bplus you should have a pilot skill advantage.

Tie Defenders could possibly fulfil a similar role but you would have to go with 3 vanilla ones. Their 3 green dice might also be comparable to the T-70s 2 dice with Autothrusters. But you can hardly take any upgrades with 3 Defenders since they are so overcosted.

They absolutely do not counter Soontir or IG88's. Both ships are well equipped to destroy TLTs and survive the return fire. The key for their success is positioning. If a Twin Laser turret list gets to shoot all of his ships at a single ship, then yes, its going to die, regardless of what ship it is, but that frankly is a mistake made by the opposing player. When going up against a twin laser turret list, you absolutely cannot allow all 4 (or even 3) Twin lasers to focus fire on the same ship. Once people figure this out, the Twin Laser lists will not do as well as they may be doing now. As I said, there's going to be a bit of an adjustment period while people learn how to fly more carefully against them.

I'm with blade_merc on this one.

it's a question of practice v perception

see, perception is reds > greens always and 3-dice ignoring the range 3 bonus will always damage anything because 3 reds > 3 greens so we're always going to see 2 damage per ship and (in the vacuum of the forums) 4 turrets will always be focusing firing on the same ship OPOPOP etc.

practice is having those unmodded attacks crap out 50/50 between one/two hits, sometimes none, and then whiffing on B-wings and shuttles 50% of the time

dice are cruel, capricious **** that care not for your probabilities

more importantly, though, I believe you're absolutely right. It is all about positioning, especially given the speed demons behind the TLTs

K-wings, Y-wings, and HWKs; exactly what you need to leave any enemy in the dust

but yeah, the horrendous dial limitations and lack of post-maneuver movement action (that lets you shoot afterwards) means TLTs require a lot more forethought and planning than can be adequately expressed on the forums. Remove that, and obviously they seem op as all hell.

but yeah, the horrendous dial limitations and lack of post-maneuver movement action (that lets you shoot afterwards) means TLTs require a lot more forethought and planning than can be adequately expressed on the forums. Remove that, and obviously they seem op as all hell.

introducing: Unhinged astromech. You're welcome

but yeah, the horrendous dial limitations and lack of post-maneuver movement action (that lets you shoot afterwards) means TLTs require a lot more forethought and planning than can be adequately expressed on the forums. Remove that, and obviously they seem op as all hell.

introducing: Unhinged astromech. You're welcome

oh no! not a 3-turn!

whatever shall we do !?!?!?!

well, at least the dial isn't bad anymore. Still, lack of post-maneuver movement doesn't change the fact that they need a lot of planning and forethought lest just about anything in a game faster or more mobile than an X-wing (which is a lot of things) roll right up to them.

a TLT's best friend is obstacles, sweet little templates of action and potentially shot denial or stress that greatly hinder anyone's capability of rushing right up to them and unloading dice in their face. Of course, the moment one introduces obstacles as a great asset to TLTs is the moment one admits good flying is the best way to play with or against them

plus, any unhinged thug is a thug that's not taking r4. That ****'s terrifying