So been reading, and I don't think anyone has hit on this point yet.

I don't particularly fly TIE fighters, and I haven't flown an x-wing in over 2 years.

you had to buy the core set to get into this game even if you didn't want the x-wing and ties.

So i don't understand what your gripe is. Honestly get over it, you aren't thinking about the game you are thinking about yourself "i want this but i don't want that"

As mentioned before you don't have to buy the new core until at least january, and i doubt any tournaments start till feburary given the holiday season.

To put an even bigger dent in your argument the yv-666 really isn't that great of a ship, it's a shuttle that is more expensive and dies just as easily. so I wouldn't expect you mr top tier to win worlds with a yv-666.

No matter how easily you make it, putting a required component into prize kits is a bad idea.

Agreed...

The deck can be handed out prior to the start of tourney. People are complaining about buying a new core set. Distributing the new damage deck can be a way of acquiring it without the new core set, caveat being you expose them to the tournament scene.

No matter how easily you make it, putting a required component into prize kits is a bad idea.

Agreed...

The deck can be handed out prior to the start of tourney. People are complaining about buying a new core set. Distributing the new damage deck can be a way of acquiring it without the new core set, caveat being you expose them to the tournament scene.

That still doesn't make it a good idea. If you can't even fork over the funds for a required component what makes you think you can fork over the necessary funds to play on the "tournament scene?" And why does ffg want to take the hit on a wider scale than worlds just so a few "competitive" players can avoid paying for a component the rest of us had to pay for?

Like sithborg said...regardless of how you try to slice it putting a REQUIRED component in a tourney kit won't end well...

Boo. We all have to spend $35 on a miniature game. This isn't monopoly, buddy. These posts are starting to bore me. *yawn* Get over it.

I can totally see that, but I want to spend my money on cool new ships and expansion packs, not a Core Set I already own...

Hmmm,

If you already own the Core Set that contains the new damage deck why complain about the new damage deck?

Cheers

Baaa

He very obviously means the original core.

Then it's not a core set he already owns

I can totally see that, but I want to spend my money on cool new ships and expansion packs, not a Core Set I already own...

Hmmm,

If you already own the Core Set that contains the new damage deck why complain about the new damage deck?

Cheers

Baaa

He very obviously means the original core.

Then it's not a core set he already owns

Failing to read his own post aside, the OP is moaning about a brand new product which, as Blue Five pointed out, is completely different from the original core set apart from a couple of bits and bobs. There are -

New rules.

New reference manual.

New ships.

New Pilots.

New upgrades.

New obstacles.

New damage deck.

So, the core set he's moaning about is not the same core set that he owns.

Don't want anything else apart from the damage deck and rules? Download the PDF and buy the damage deck on the secondary market. There will be plenty for sale soon enough. You know what, even if you have to pay £10 for the cards, you've made a saving. Problem solved. And in reality, it won't be much different from buying a damage deck that FFG sell separately from their online store.

And guess what? The OP undoubtedly knows this.

The bigger problem is that it seems that every second or third post in the forums these days is a ***** about FFG's business model or how to fix the game (oh, and we've also had the odd post here and there about pricing); and as a result, slowly but surely this place is getting as bad as whineseer.

Cheers

Baaa

I can totally see that, but I want to spend my money on cool new ships and expansion packs, not a Core Set I already own...

Hmmm,

If you already own the Core Set that contains the new damage deck why complain about the new damage deck?

Cheers

Baaa

He very obviously means the original core.

Then it's not a core set he already owns

Apart from the damage deck it is, if someone doesn't want the ships already has two sets of templates and tokens then you paying the price of a large ship for 33 printed cards.

Even buying it separate on eBay costs more than buying an expansion.

People choose to enter tournaments, people don't have a choice in buying the core that's the big issue, if they were selling it separate you'd have no outcry.

... people don't have a choice in buying the core that's the big issue...

Of course there's a choice, either buy it or don't.

Nobody is forcing them to walk into wherever, hand over cash and walk out with a new Core Set, and please don't say FFG are by packaging the new damage deck in the new core set, because nobody is forcing anyone to play in tournaments or to use the new deck in casual games.

Cheers

Baaa

... people don't have a choice in buying the core that's the big issue...

Of course there's a choice, either buy it or don't.

Nobody is forcing them to walk into wherever, hand over cash and walk out with a new Core Set, and please don't say FFG are by packaging the new damage deck in the new core set, because nobody is forcing anyone to play in tournaments or to use the new deck in casual games.

Cheers

Baaa

Can you play in a sanctioned tournament with the old deck next year? No you can't so the tournament guys who want to play have no choice but to buy it or stop playing.

Much like the 7th edition of 40k this is a minimal change that's not worth buying but if you want to keep playing you have no choice.

It's great if you like the ships it's terrible if you don't rate them.

I'm not a tournament player but I can understand the frustration of those who are who don't want to own this core set.

Can you play in a sanctioned tournament with the old deck next year? No you can't so the tournament guys who want to play have no choice but to buy it or stop playing.

Much like the 7th edition of 40k this is a minimal change that's not worth buying but if you want to keep playing you have no choice.

It's great if you like the ships it's terrible if you don't rate them.

I'm not a tournament player but I can understand the frustration of those who are who don't want to own this core set.

But it's a choice nonetheless.

People who play the game in tournaments fully understand; and have done since the advent of competitive play; that there are certain game components that they need to have with them if they want to participate. And those people that do play competitively have either bought an expansion or starter pack to get whatever they need, or have bought it from the secondary market.

Nobody forces anyone to take part in a tournament. It's personal choice.

As for 40k?

Same thing applies. Unless you chose to take part in a tournament that dictated you had to use the new rulebook and an up to date army codex, there was no need to do so. Nobody forced you to enter that tournament or made anyone to buy the rulebooks. In fact, the only person that stopped you and your buddies playing a friendly 3rd, 4th or 5th edition game was you, just like there's no-one stopping you or your buddies playing X-Wing using the old damage deck.

No matter how you dress it up, it's a choice.

If you don't like the choices you have in front of you, sell up or play casual with friends who don't mind you proxying things here and there.

Cheers

Baaa

Really not sure I get the hate here. In order to play competitively in events, everyone knows you need certain things bought even if you don't ever use what they come with(Starvipers bought for Autothrusters come to mind). The amount of money already spent on the game without the core is hefty. I really don't understand the logic behind griping about buying a new core and insisting only having to do it for the damage deck.

As pointed out, you get more than the deck in the new core. As pointed out, you can sell or trade everything else that comes in the new core to someone else. As pointed out, you can buy just the new deck from someone else. As pointed out, you don't need the new deck to play casual with your friends.

I pointed out in a similar thread that people are paying twice or 3 times the cost of a core set buying 3rd party templates, expansions for tokens, ect...but still need the damage deck. I pointed out they get new asteroids. I pointed out they get new ship models, cards and tokens(which they somehow forgot to mention in their orginal rant that the only way to get them was from the core set[unless they 3rd party them]). I pointed out new rule book(s).

... In order to play competitively in events, everyone knows you need certain things bought ...

Then that makes the game pay-to-win, and who wants to play one of those?

Yes I have got the option of selling up or not taking part in OP, but that's not really good for OP or the game in general.

Yes I've heard all these arguments and I'm convinced the deck will improve the game, and see maybe FFG had licensing issues, but its still an ugly deal for existing players who take part in OP (which is great by the way

Then that makes the game pay-to-win, and who wants to play one of those?

Yes I have got the option of selling up or not taking part in OP, but that's not really good for OP or the game in general.

Yes I've heard all these arguments and I'm convinced the deck will improve the game, and see maybe FFG had licensing issues, but its still an ugly deal for existing players who take part in OP (which is great by the way

To some extent every miniatures game becomes pay-to-win when you start to take it to a competitive level.

X-Wing is no different.

Cheers

Baaa

Then that makes the game pay-to-win, and who wants to play one of those?

Yes I have got the option of selling up or not taking part in OP, but that's not really good for OP or the game in general.

Yes I've heard all these arguments and I'm convinced the deck will improve the game, and see maybe FFG had licensing issues, but its still an ugly deal for existing players who take part in OP (which is great by the way

To some extent every miniatures game becomes pay-to-win when you start to take it to a competitive level.

X-Wing is no different.

Cheers

Baaa

EVERY miniatures game is pay to win.

You have to pay to play right? Therefore you are obviously paying to win. The P2W argument only works in F2P games of which Xwing is not.

Attack wings pay to win because you can get ships not available in shops, x-wing every body has equal access to everything.

That said yes you need the cash to buy stuff but a casual like me can get every thing a tournament player can except tokens.

In AW and heroclix if your not going to cons and events your getting left behind and need to pay well over retail to catch up.

Attack wings pay to win because you can get ships not available in shops, x-wing every body has equal access to everything.

That said yes you need the cash to buy stuff but a casual like me can get every thing a tournament player can except tokens.

In AW and heroclix if your not going to cons and events your getting left behind and need to pay well over retail to catch up.

I can get behind that definition...but we can all agree that even by that definition xwing still doesn't fall into the P2W category...that's what my last post was about. The OP is quite wrong in calling this game pay to win...

I just thought of something, and shoot me down in flames if you want, but has anyone who bought the 1st Core Set since it was re-shipped alongside the 2nd Core Set checked the damage deck in that against the new one?

Cheers

Baaa

I think there would have been great hue and cry on the forums if that were the case. But I don't think it unreasonable that eventually the original core will get the new damage deck. It is, after all, the only place new players shopping at the store can get Luke and R2D2.

Everyone says buy the damage deck on the secondary market. I say caveat emptor, there is going to be a lot of damage deck on the secondary market but they won't be from the episode VI core set.

There are people that play X-Wing outside the USA. Our community is small but growing, getting a starter is extremely expansive. The exchange rate is insane, the shipping is insane.

It's not cheap or easy just to buy a deck off ebay. So having to get the starter just to play in tournaments frustrates me so much, because all I would want from it is the damage deck.

If they sold it separately. I would have been fine with it, I didn't want to be forced to buy a starter. I have invested a lot of time and money in X-Wing so I am not going to stop playing it.

I love the game, but this move did sour it.

It is, however, cheap and easy to buy the Force Awakens core set at a discount on ebay, keep the damage deck, and put the ships, templates, dice and cards up on ebay if you don't want them or need them.

Hell, you'd probably end up in profit all things considered.

Of course, you would of course need to be motivated enough to do it, and not just a lazy entitled whiner.

There is going to be a lot of damage deck on the secondary market but they won't be from the episode VI core set.

I should hope not!

I think there would have been great hue and cry on the forums if that were the case. But I don't think it unreasonable that eventually the original core will get the new damage deck. It is, after all, the only place new players shopping at the store can get Luke and R2D2.

It would be unreasonable to keep selling the old damage deck if you require the new for organized play. If it goes into production now, it should have the latest stuff.

Then that makes the game pay-to-win, and who wants to play one of those?

It's an expansion based physical miniatures game: you buy more options. If you think a specific upgrade can make you win all the time, then it will always be pay-to-win.

I wonder if all this will create a bias against the Force Awakens' ships.

I mean, imagine that FFG comes with a $40 Jar Jar Binks Shuttle (senator's shuttle?) that is mandatory to buy for tournament play. Many won't mind and will just buy it. But many others will mind and will feel aggravated with having to spend $40 on something they don't want (and from that point on, they will even hate precisely because of that).

I think FFG is making a mistake here, and potentially creating a lot of bad feelings against them. I see no reason of weight why the old deck cannot be valid for 2016. If the movies are great, people won't mind getting the new core set to get 3 new ships the might like for a good price. But at least give them the illusion of freedom. Freedom to choose what they spend their money on.

I think most of the people that aren't able to see the OP's point are those that buy one or two copies of everything anyway. But, please, understand that your attitude is not the usual one. Not even common.

I think FFG is making a mistake here, and potentially creating a lot of bad feelings against them. I see no reason of weight why the old deck cannot be valid for 2016.

Either the old or the new deck must be valid, you can't have both where you pick and choose what deck is most advantageous to you and opponents are each using different decks.