Someday this game will be out of print and players will be scarce.

At the end of the day if you don't like it vote with your wallet and don't buy it, that's what I've done with the Taken King.

You're missing out. I know this isn't exactly a selling point, but this really is the version of Destiny I wish I'd been playing for the past year.

Surprising that a few people are actually complaining about a 25 dollar purchase.

It's unfortunate, and a little bit unpleasant, but I don't find it surprising at all. Everyone has something they'll complain about, and some people will complain about everything.

I can totally agree that it will improve the game, but making us buy Core Sets just for the damage deck is a rotten way to treat players/customers. And aren't we, the competitive players, the ones that are driving the game? Heck, I organize tournaments and store championships for FFG. Excluding us unless we buy a new Core Set sucks. And its even worse for Scum players...

I have a couple of problems with this, but the first and biggest is that last part. I still find it nearly unbelievable that there's a substantial portion of the playerbase that looks at all the possibilities in this game and says "Nah, I really only want to experience a third of this."

Running the Empire is fun, but so is running Rebels, and so is running Scum. I can't imagine sitting down to think about what I want to play at the local Escalation event on Saturday and being limited to just one faction. Maybe it's just a personal blind spot, but I really don't get it.

The second biggest is that bit about "we, the competitive players... driving the game". I'm not sure it's true, and if it is true, I'm not sure it's a reason why FFG should refrain from publishing the new deck with a new core set. No one outside FFG knows (and they might not know there) how many competitive players there are out of all players, but my guess from other games is that it's a pretty small portion.

Moreover, in this thread you're actually talking about a much smaller group than all competitive players: the only people who ought to be upset about the new damage deck people are those who plan to play competitively but also weren't already planning to buy an FA Core Set for the ships and upgrades. Again, I don't have any research to back this up, but my guess is that those players are basically a rounding error considered against the set of all players.

It would be admirable if FFG released the damage deck separately as a print-on-demand item, or even for free as a high-resolution PDF. It would do a lot to cement their reputation as a customer-service-oriented company. But I don't think there's actually much pressure on them to do so, because the constituency you represent isn't honestly a very large one.

How can FFG say that it's not X-wing 2.0 or that it doesn't replace the original core set when you have to play with a new 2.0 damage deck? Also, they have tweaked some of the rules though they say they streamlined it.

Is there something wrong with calling it X-wing 2.0? Call it what it is, a reboot.

Yes, there is something wrong with it: every current game element remains legal, with a very small number of changes to how a small number of elements function. It's not a reboot, and the ships, upgrades, obstacles, missions, and movement templates in the original core set all remain perfectly valid.

(Deleted double post... I swear I only clicked post once.)

Posted Today, 02:48 PM

Talonbane Cobra, on 17 Sept 2015 - 11:51 AM, said:

At the end of the day if you don't like it vote with your wallet and don't buy it, that's what I've done with the Taken King.

You're missing out. I know this isn't exactly a selling point, but this really is the version of Destiny I wish I'd been playing for the past year.

It's £40 here! £40!

I stopped playing during HoW i had everything to get in the game except the Skolas stuff and didn't have a team to beat him.

Personally; I haven't felt forced/pressured into buying the new core set. When the UK release was announced I chose to pre-order 2 of them for the following reasons:

1. I want new toys.

2. I like playing X-Wing and want new toys.

3. When I hit my goal of enough shield tokens to fill my bath tub so I can bathe in the glory of X-Wing; I will be able to die happy. And I want new toys.

At the end of the day if you don't like it vote with your wallet and don't buy it, that's what I've done with the Taken King.

You're missing out. I know this isn't exactly a selling point, but this really is the version of Destiny I wish I'd been playing for the past year.

I want new toys!

I want a Core Set and a Damage Deck so I can have 2 complete playsets in the most lazy way possible.

I don't like that the new core set is mandatory either. I'm not sure I'd describe it as unfair, but I can't say I'm a fan. It's all part of the general price creep in X-wing, along with $20 small ships, normal game content bundled with epic content, etc. I just set a fixed budget for X-wing, and buy what I want that fits under it. The new core set just means that I'm buying less than I otherwise would from wave 8, so it's not a big deal.

For a company that routinely releases card packs for its other games, it doesn't make sense that they can't sell the deck separately. Or if FFG really cared about treating players fairly, allow proxy decks in tournament play. Or errata the existing deck. Problem solved. They're not gouging us for money, right? Come on, they're smart guys - they could have come up with a better solution than "buy a new core set or stop playing competitively".

Thing is, we don't know if their licensing with Disney even allows them to print cards separate from the miniatures. I know they had to twist around not to call Imperial Assault a board game because they don't have the board game rights to Star Wars. So it may very well not be a matter of FFG not wanting to treat its players fairly.

Even still, plenty of miniature games before X-Wing have said, "Hey, new edition, buy all these books if you want to keep playing in tournaments," and at a cost significantly higher than $30 to $40. And if your gaming budget is so tight that spending that kind of money is a deal-breaker, then honestly, maybe an expandable miniatures game isn't something you need to be getting into.

Tournaments cost money. It's just the way it is. You have entry fees, travel expenses, and sometimes you have to buy new legal stuff. The competitive players who are gonna stop doing tournaments because of this is such a low number that it doesn't even matter to ffg. Remember there #1 goal is to make money. How many of us already bought core sets and are happy? A ton.

At the end of the day if you don't like it vote with your wallet and don't buy it, that's what I've done with the Taken King.

You're missing out. I know this isn't exactly a selling point, but this really is the version of Destiny I wish I'd been playing for the past year.

Really? Are you telling me that I need to upgrade to the XB1 version and buy all of the expansions? I kicked this habit back in November...

I have a couple of problems with this, but the first and biggest is that last part. I still find it nearly unbelievable that there's a substantial portion of the playerbase that looks at all the possibilities in this game and says "Nah, I really only want to experience a third of this."

Running the Empire is fun, but so is running Rebels, and so is running Scum. I can't imagine sitting down to think about what I want to play at the local Escalation event on Saturday and being limited to just one faction. Maybe it's just a personal blind spot, but I really don't get it.

You have said this several times before, but I have never seen a satisfactory response from a faction-loyal player. In the interest of avoiding a threadjack, I will take the issue somewhere else.

At the end of the day if you don't like it vote with your wallet and don't buy it, that's what I've done with the Taken King.

You're missing out. I know this isn't exactly a selling point, but this really is the version of Destiny I wish I'd been playing for the past year.

Really? Are you telling me that I need to upgrade to the XB1 version and buy all of the expansions? I kicked this habit back in November...

(and rebalancing and lots of little tweaks to reduce downtime like not having to **** about going back to the tower to hand in bounties and general rebalancing and more space in the vault and story cinematics that aren't **** and stuff I guess)

It is worth mentioning I feel that games workshop recently redid an entire game from basically the ground up because players weren't buying models any more as all their armies were complete. Sure they might buy a pack or two here and there, but it was slowly killing sales numbers, among other reasons. If buying a $40 dollar bargain box of goodies that comes with new obstacles to tailor your strategies more is considered to be your buy in for the next three years or so, I'd call that cheap. Sympathetic to your plight but not all to reasonable dude. Change your paradigm on the matter a bit. I hope you'll see that it's a good thing.

Now all that said, you could just use the same reason that I'm going to use for going on hiatus awhile from the games standard format, see that FFG has screwed up for the third time on balance in the last three waves and say that your starting over from the new core set and going forward from there. Just another paradigm.

...and look how well that's doing for them.

What FFG is doing with X-Wing has absolutely nothing to do with gw & 40k... Nopes.

It has everything to do with moving forward with a cleaned up game play experience, and a whole lot of glorious new STAR WARS content to bring cool new ships into this awesome game!

But you know the darn thing is I kind of miss the old damage deck already. I was super excited about the new one and now it just doesn't feel right. But you know I'm still happy to have the new core set in my hands because it's like being too start the saga all over again from a new beginning. You might even say A New Hope! Lol

To force you into buying a new core set if you want to continue competitive play is a sort of rip-off.

On the other hand, as a competitive player you usually own a copy of any product providing you with new cards and stuff anyway ... so... there is that.

And you get a good product for a good price.

Disneyfication hate put aside just for a moment, with inverted colors of tie fighters ... and other crap like this

It is a awesome game with now updated ships and rules and stuff.

Thing is, we don't know if their licensing with Disney even allows them to print cards separate from the miniatures. I know they had to twist around not to call Imperial Assault a board game because they don't have the board game rights to Star Wars. So it may very well not be a matter of FFG not wanting to treat its players fairly.

Ummm ... they make two Star Wars card games. How would they not have the license for it? Anyway, the first announcement article from when FFG acquired the Star Wars license aid they bought the rights to make card games, roleplaying games, and miniatures games. Board games were missing from the list since Hasbro still has the rights to those (hence the new Star Wars "Risk") and that's why Imperial Assault had such a rough time. Supposition: They wanted to call it a miniatures game, but it was so similar too Decent, which is classified by FFG as a board game. I suspect the skirmish mode was put in there to justify it as a miniatures game. Otherwise we wouldn't have Imperial Assault.

How many accounts does this guy have to make before we all realize that we're all mad about this?

well there is allot of time between this tournament season's ending and next season... Also you could just buy the new damage deck on Ebay for $10-$15 dollars, just like you can with any upgrade card (got my TIE advanced fix for $10.00 that way, since I am not getting into epic with large ships).

"You can't win. But there are alternatives to fighting." - Obi-Wan Kenobi.

While this is of course totally true, what FFG should probably do is release Card pack only expansions and not force you into buying Ships you dont need nor want.

But hey even though its not fair, most people will not mind buying a new core set or would have done it anyway.

How can FFG say that it's not X-wing 2.0 or that it doesn't replace the original core set when you have to play with a new 2.0 damage deck? Also, they have tweaked some of the rules though they say they streamlined it.

Is there something wrong with calling it X-wing 2.0? Call it what it is, a reboot.

Yes, there is something wrong with it: every current game element remains legal, with a very small number of changes to how a small number of elements function. It's not a reboot, and the ships, upgrades, obstacles, missions, and movement templates in the original core set all remain perfectly valid.

Well no, not everything. From 2016 on you will need a new damage deck at least if you want to play tournaments. I would not call that 2.0 but the old damage deck becomes sort of illegal.

I can totally see that, but I want to spend my money on cool new ships and expansion packs, not a Core Set I already own or on TFA ships I don't want. I'd rather buy an epic looking Hounds Tooth... Is that so bad?

Did you not see the part where he said you could buy JUST the damage deck?

well there is allot of time between this tournament season's ending and next season... Also you could just buy the new damage deck on Ebay for $10-$15 dollars, just like you can with any upgrade card (got my TIE advanced fix for $10.00 that way, since I am not getting into epic with large ships).

"You can't win. But there are alternatives to fighting." - Obi-Wan Kenobi.

While this is of course totally true, what FFG should probably do is release Card pack only expansions and not force you into buying Ships you dont need nor want.

I don't get why everyone assumes this would be a good thing. If they released card expansions, they'd want to get their money's worth in profit out of them. You'd probably see card pack exclusives, reduced cards in blisters, et cetera. It'd probably end up more expensive.

This creates a different problem actually:

The orignal Core Set is still being sold. How are they going to explain to a new player that buys an older core set in a few months, that he is disqualified from a tournament because he has the wrong damage deck?

It is just such a weird choice, unless they offer free new damage decks at retailers, or trade-ins or something like that...

I think it'd also be a good idea for FFG to update the original core set to contain the new rulebook and damage deck, but for all we know that might already be the plan.

THIS! If they keep printing the original core set with the old deck and rules, and then force people to use "new" rules and damage deck in tourneys, that would absolutely be a truly first rate d**k move.

We're all looking at it from the existing player standpoint being forced to buy a new damage deck on Jan 1, and strictly for official tournaments.

More serious regarding tournaments in the short term, brand new players that only buy the new core set then try to enter store championships before Jan 1 will be forced to buy the old core set before round 1 or be disqualified.

Until Jan 1, FFG has to stock the original core set with the old damage deck so new players buying the new core set can legally enter store championships this year. After Jan 1, FFG can update the old core set with the new deck, but not prior, unless they want to inhibit TFA Core players from competitive play.

Sure! I'd pay $10 USD for the asteroids and a damage deck.

Thing is, we don't know if their licensing with Disney even allows them to print cards separate from the miniatures. I know they had to twist around not to call Imperial Assault a board game because they don't have the board game rights to Star Wars. So it may very well not be a matter of FFG not wanting to treat its players fairly.

Ummm ... they make two Star Wars card games. How would they not have the license for it? Anyway, the first announcement article from when FFG acquired the Star Wars license aid they bought the rights to make card games, roleplaying games, and miniatures games. Board games were missing from the list since Hasbro still has the rights to those (hence the new Star Wars "Risk") and that's why Imperial Assault had such a rough time. Supposition: They wanted to call it a miniatures game, but it was so similar too Decent, which is classified by FFG as a board game. I suspect the skirmish mode was put in there to justify it as a miniatures game. Otherwise we wouldn't have Imperial Assault.

They may not have the rights to print individual card packs that are not directly related to the card game. Licensing deals can be pretty labyrinthian sometimes.