Why do I want to give my money to an Ebay seller instead of to FFG I want to support FFG and X-Wing? And won't eBay be full of people selling used 1st gen decks after they upgrade to the new ones. Who is going to buy a new core set and then keeps their old damage deck?

Ok buying a separate damage deck is a compromise and I see what people are saying about the new deck improving the game, but I still don't want the new models or ship cards.

Why do I want to give my money to an Ebay seller instead of to FFG I want to support FFG and X-Wing? And won't eBay be full of people selling used 1st gen decks after they upgrade to the new ones. Who is going to buy a new core set and then keeps their old damage deck?

Ok buying a separate damage deck is a compromise and I see what people are saying about the new deck improving the game, but I still don't want the new models or ship cards.

I'm confused. You want to support X-wing, but don't want to pay 30$ for a pack of three ships? You want to buy a separate Damage deck, but not from someone on eBay (who presumably got a Core set, so supporting FFG)?

Yes, I want to buy the separate damage deck from FFG, they have a lot of experience releasing decks of cards for games.

I want to buy the Hounds Tooth, not a new Core set.

I hope you are less confused now.

It's a handful of cards not a whole damage deck that has been changed.

FFG could do an upgrade kit via POD or include some in the tournament kits.

What will happen is that in the post-world's FAQ those cards will get errata to read like the new versions.

You won't HAVE to buy a new deck, it's just easier if you do.

They changed the backs so if you only got the different ones and the changed ones and put that in your deck it still wouldn't work as you would be able to tell the new ones.

Also for the errata well there is enough changed cards that you pretty much need the new deck. Now sure you could proxy and place insert and sleeves over all cards so that you can't tell which was a new/changed one so it acts like a new deck, but proxies are not allowed in many tournaments and some league plays. They are certainly not allowed in premier events.

I thought the new damage deck is optional for tourneys.

Also from what I saw, new deck is less forgiving. So assuming I have the old deck and opponent has the new one, I already have an advantage.

Or was the damage deck FAQ?

I thought the new damage deck is optional for tourneys.

For now, the old damage deck is the standard for tournaments.

After January 1st, the new damage deck is mandatory.

I'm upset about having to buy ships to play this game in tournaments. I proxy my dog as a Space Marine Titan for my home games, why can't I use my Lego fleet in X-wing?!

Greedy sons of *******.

Yeah they are... damm'em!

I thought the new damage deck is optional for tourneys.

Also from what I saw, new deck is less forgiving. So assuming I have the old deck and opponent has the new one, I already have an advantage.

Or was the damage deck FAQ?

Nope no damage deck is optional as it should be standard for all tourneys. It is only optional in casual play as to give players a chance to practice with it before taking it out to the first tournament season while allowing players that don't have the new set yet the ability to still play X-wing. So the old one is still in until Dec 31 so Worlds will not see the big changes with the new deck. However once the new year all tournaments will require the new deck.

As for which deck is more forgiving I would say the new damage deck is more forgiving. Basically what they did is remove some critical cards that could have no effect on ships such as injured pilot on a Blue squadron or munitions failure on Soontir Fel. Now while those cards would punish Super Dash if it were drawn. Those type of cards have been replaced with cards that will effect any ship they are turned on.

A couple of effects got buffed like minor explosion which was only a direct hit 3 out of 8 times into an extra crit 3 out of 8 however many cards got nerfed like damaged sensor array which now has a 50% chance to flip down and blinded pilot which would stop the next attack to stop the attack in the next combat phase or ending phase if it lands on Corran. IMHO the new deck is softer on builds like the Dash one that won nationals.

I think it's unfair to criticize FFG for this. They are taking steps forward with the game, and the established way of doing that is with new packs. Sure the TIE Advanced fix was with the Raider, but was anyone buying Tie Advanceds to be "competitive" before? I had 2 for no reason. I would take one out when I showed a new player around (playing Wedge with R2-D2 against Vader, just to make it impossible for me to win). They had an opportunity to fix the Advanced, they did. Ditto for the A-wing and the damage deck. This is the modus operandi, and it is unlikely it will change, since it is a successful model.

Now what I don't like is that they stopped including multiples of good cards. Starviper had 2 autothrusters, K-wing had 2 TLTs, Punisher 2 engines. Meanwhile, the core set comes with only one Weapons Guidance, when there are 3 ships that can use it. The expansion packs are also extremely skimpy on upgrades. Perhaps it was hurting sales?

Hel-Nahs!!!

Me hates FFG... all of a sudden... HATE!

I'm as mad as a **** hornet... and I am a gonna join "The Crappy Ole Curmudgeons Club" and ONLY play Waves 1 to 4!!!

GROWLS, SNARGELS, HUFFS, AND PUFFS!!!

This creates a different problem actually:

The orignal Core Set is still being sold. How are they going to explain to a new player that buys an older core set in a few months, that he is disqualified from a tournament because he has the wrong damage deck?

It is just such a weird choice, unless they offer free new damage decks at retailers, or trade-ins or something like that...

No one is forcing me to buy any FFG products. I buy them because I want them. Doing most things competitively costs and £30.00 to stay competitive is a small price to pay. It's a bargain for what you get in the box.

Also if you don't want the stuff in the box I'll buy the 2 tie/fo off anyone for $10. And the Tech upgrade for $2.

Just about every wargame has some maintenance cost for tournament players. Most wargamers have to buy huge rulebooks periodically. One starter set after 3 years is quite reasonable.

This creates a different problem actually:

The orignal Core Set is still being sold. How are they going to explain to a new player that buys an older core set in a few months, that he is disqualified from a tournament because he has the wrong damage deck?

It is just such a weird choice, unless they offer free new damage decks at retailers, or trade-ins or something like that...

I try to tell new players to wait for the new core set (which is now out). I saw one who said they are not interested in episode 7 stuff which is understandable but still yeah the classic core set shouldn't be marketed.

It should be changed into some type of expansion because in reality that's all it is now anymore, a $40 expansion pack.

This creates a different problem actually:

The orignal Core Set is still being sold. How are they going to explain to a new player that buys an older core set in a few months, that he is disqualified from a tournament because he has the wrong damage deck?

It is just such a weird choice, unless they offer free new damage decks at retailers, or trade-ins or something like that...

I try to tell new players to wait for the new core set (which is now out). I saw one who said they are not interested in episode 7 stuff which is understandable but still yeah the classic core set shouldn't be marketed.

It should be changed into some type of expansion because in reality that's all it is now anymore, a $40 expansion pack.

Only to tournament players. To casual gamers it's a fully functional starter set. Programmed in multiple techniques.

This creates a different problem actually:

The orignal Core Set is still being sold. How are they going to explain to a new player that buys an older core set in a few months, that he is disqualified from a tournament because he has the wrong damage deck?

It is just such a weird choice, unless they offer free new damage decks at retailers, or trade-ins or something like that...

I try to tell new players to wait for the new core set (which is now out). I saw one who said they are not interested in episode 7 stuff which is understandable but still yeah the classic core set shouldn't be marketed.

It should be changed into some type of expansion because in reality that's all it is now anymore, a $40 expansion pack.

Which is still good value for 3 ships, dice and maneuvering templates, assuming you want them. Which you will, otherwise you wouldn't get the pack. If I wanted to play swarms starting from scratch, I would probably get 3 old cores and 2 Tie expansions.

This creates a different problem actually:

The orignal Core Set is still being sold. How are they going to explain to a new player that buys an older core set in a few months, that he is disqualified from a tournament because he has the wrong damage deck?

It is just such a weird choice, unless they offer free new damage decks at retailers, or trade-ins or something like that...

I try to tell new players to wait for the new core set (which is now out). I saw one who said they are not interested in episode 7 stuff which is understandable but still yeah the classic core set shouldn't be marketed.

It should be changed into some type of expansion because in reality that's all it is now anymore, a $40 expansion pack.

Only to tournament players. To casual gamers it's a fully functional starter set. Programmed in multiple techniques.

Plus it's got pretty new ships from that new film... glory!

Meanwhile the rest of you feel free to fuss and fight...

Yeah it's not ideal, but it means I only need to buy two TIE/FOs and T-70s in wave 8 rather than 6/4..

Also if you don't want the stuff in the box I'll buy the 2 tie/fo off anyone for $10. And the Tech upgrade for $2.

Indeed. I'm sure the OP will easily find people who could use an extra T-70 or Wired too.

Please stop banging on about the new ships being good value it's not true if you have no interest in them, if the only thing you want is the damage deck it's actually terrible value.

Maybe they'll be reasonably priced on eBay but they might not be once sellers realise it's a needed item and decide to price gouge.

Yeah you could part it out but I think you over estimate the demand for the ship's, and really who wants the hassle involved.

If this had been a new edition then fine it's a brand new rule set so you'd want the rule book as well, but it isn't it's the same game so you should not need to buy a new starter.

You don't need the upgrade cards to play you can make lists without them that work it's a different issue from needing to have the new damage deck.

This creates a different problem actually:

The orignal Core Set is still being sold. How are they going to explain to a new player that buys an older core set in a few months, that he is disqualified from a tournament because he has the wrong damage deck?

It is just such a weird choice, unless they offer free new damage decks at retailers, or trade-ins or something like that...

I try to tell new players to wait for the new core set (which is now out). I saw one who said they are not interested in episode 7 stuff which is understandable but still yeah the classic core set shouldn't be marketed.

It should be changed into some type of expansion because in reality that's all it is now anymore, a $40 expansion pack.

Only to tournament players. To casual gamers it's a fully functional starter set. Programmed in multiple techniques.

Props for Data reference.

Yeah it is a pain in the ass but whatever. I just need a bigger box to put all my rebs in. You guys complain about a $30 box, we have to fork out about $60 in the Southern Hemisphere.

This creates a different problem actually:

The orignal Core Set is still being sold. How are they going to explain to a new player that buys an older core set in a few months, that he is disqualified from a tournament because he has the wrong damage deck?

It is just such a weird choice, unless they offer free new damage decks at retailers, or trade-ins or something like that...

I try to tell new players to wait for the new core set (which is now out). I saw one who said they are not interested in episode 7 stuff which is understandable but still yeah the classic core set shouldn't be marketed.

It should be changed into some type of expansion because in reality that's all it is now anymore, a $40 expansion pack.

Only to tournament players. To casual gamers it's a fully functional starter set. Programmed in multiple techniques.

Props for Data reference.

Yeah it is a pain in the ass but whatever. I just need a bigger box to put all my rebs in. You guys complain about a $30 box, we have to fork out about $60 in the Southern Hemisphere.

Exchange rates have nothing to do with it, I'm sorry people in oz get the short end of the stick same with our Canadian friends but that's here nor there for this topic.

I'm in the UK I pay more than our colonial friends.

The issue is spending money on something you don't want instead of something you do want, it's a tax on competitive players who don't want the new ships and no one likes paying taxes.

It is worth mentioning I feel that games workshop recently redid an entire game from basically the ground up because players weren't buying models any more as all their armies were complete. Sure they might buy a pack or two here and there, but it was slowly killing sales numbers, among other reasons. If buying a $40 dollar bargain box of goodies that comes with new obstacles to tailor your strategies more is considered to be your buy in for the next three years or so, I'd call that cheap. Sympathetic to your plight but not all to reasonable dude. Change your paradigm on the matter a bit. I hope you'll see that it's a good thing.

Now all that said, you could just use the same reason that I'm going to use for going on hiatus awhile from the games standard format, see that FFG has screwed up for the third time on balance in the last three waves and say that your starting over from the new core set and going forward from there. Just another paradigm.

...and look how well that's doing for them.

It's worth remembering that X-Wing is severely hampered by being Star Wars: it's stuck deep in the licensing quagmire. Almost everything they do has to go through LFL. The Raider was so late because LFL took forever to sign off on its release (FFG finally got them to do it a day or so before GenCon). The K-wing article allegedly took so long to fix because LFL needs to approve changes.

If X-Wing weren't under a Star Wars license, I reckon we probably would see card packs, old blisters updated with fix cards, et cetera, simply because they'd probably sell pretty well. Pretty much all of FFG's anticonsumer behaviour is in the three Star Wars miniature games: I can't think of anything glaring off the top of my head outside of it. Their LCG model was specifically designed to be less anticonsumer than CCGs.

Seriously HoboJebus do you want to buy one of my damage decks? You are in the UK?

I can get a core set for £25 so yeah call it £7 with P&P.