Who are you to say what people should or shouldn't be able to afford?

Oh yes, FUTURE reprints may have the new deck, but right now how many old ones are in the retail chain? I know it's not just a few, and most likely in the high thousands+. How many people are going to buy those old starters not having any clue as to there even being a new damage deck in any box? That's the biggest kicker, new purchasers are going to get a rude awakening that will leave them with a low opinion of the game or it's publisher. Is that what everyone here wants because they're so tied up with tournament play they don't care about new people. See I care about the hobby as a whole, and I like this game, but I don't want a large number of folks first experience into the hobby to leave them feeling taken advantage of over a stupid deck in a new starter because they wanted to do a tournament. I guess I'm strange like that.

You are correct, going by the current published opinion of FFG both should be valid for any event they sponsor, but then they go and do otherwise with the tournament rules. They've kept eerily silent on the mater, is the tournament scene where their heart lies and they just pay the "casuals" lip service with all the casual and new player stuff they publish or do they really care about the casuals and new players ?

This has happened to my circle already. I have been promoting the game among my friends after I they saw I had took part in a tournament and had a blast there.

They went and bought two cores past week, original core sets, because they don't like the look and feel of the new ones ("They look more like toys" they said ), and I had told them that the new leaked core set rules reference said that one can use whatever damage deck they have. One of them kept the rebel ships and the other kept the imperials. They were planning on getting on the game slowly by buying individual packs they had already put their eyes on, in order to take part in those cool tournaments.

You know, over here, there are not really a FLGS "scene", and people don't gather in stores to play casual games. The stores don't even have tables. They sell their product and organize tournaments now and then, so tournaments are the real only chance to play your list against other people, even if you have no hopes (or delusions) of reaching the top.

Then FFG comes with the latest tournament rules. They are really feeling scammed. And I feel bad because I got them into the game. If both want to participate, they will need to spend 80€ on two The Force Awakens' core sets they don't want, and that money was basically their whole planned budget for the ships they wanted for next year. The whole thing has put them already in a hostile mood against the game and even the new movies.

EBay isn't an option, since the customs and the delivery and postage usually amount to close to 20€.

The fact is that this has been an unilateral decision by FFG, and good willed customers have bought retail core sets that are "defective" without warning.

The deal was one, people bought some product, then they changed the deal. (This is becoming a trend)

If the product you bought comes with a defective or outdated component, I don't see unreasonable that FFG had to replace that component for free.

I will make another prediction (based on my naive good faith), and I will probably be wrong, again:

The most decent thing to do will be to hand out free damage decks to all tournament participants, or make it optional, forever. And that is what FFG will do.

But, probably I'll be wrong.

I have an irrational hatred of video Star Wars post 1986, etc.

Oh yes, FUTURE reprints may have the new deck, but right now how many old ones are in the retail chain? I know it's not just a few, and most likely in the high thousands+. How many people are going to buy those old starters not having any clue as to there even being a new damage deck in any box? That's the biggest kicker, new purchasers are going to get a rude awakening that will leave them with a low opinion of the game or it's publisher. Is that what everyone here wants because they're so tied up with tournament play they don't care about new people. See I care about the hobby as a whole, and I like this game, but I don't want a large number of folks first experience into the hobby to leave them feeling taken advantage of over a stupid deck in a new starter because they wanted to do a tournament. I guess I'm strange like that.

You are correct, going by the current published opinion of FFG both should be valid for any event they sponsor, but then they go and do otherwise with the tournament rules. They've kept eerily silent on the mater, is the tournament scene where their heart lies and they just pay the "casuals" lip service with all the casual and new player stuff they publish or do they really care about the casuals and new players ?

This has happened to my circle already. I have been promoting the game among my friends after I they saw I had took part in a tournament and had a blast there.

They went and bought two cores past week, original core sets, because they don't like the look and feel of the new ones ("They look more like toys" they said ), and I had told them that the new leaked core set rules reference said that one can use whatever damage deck they have. One of them kept the rebel ships and the other kept the imperials. They were planning on getting on the game slowly by buying individual packs they had already put their eyes on, in order to take part in those cool tournaments.

You know, over here, there are not really a FLGS "scene", and people don't gather in stores to play casual games. The stores don't even have tables. They sell their product and organize tournaments now and then, so tournaments are the real only chance to play your list against other people, even if you have no hopes (or delusions) of reaching the top.

Then FFG comes with the latest tournament rules. They are really feeling scammed. And I feel bad because I got them into the game. If both want to participate, they will need to spend 80€ on two The Force Awakens' core sets they don't want, and that money was basically their whole planned budget for the ships they wanted for next year. The whole thing has put them already in a hostile mood against the game and even the new movies.

EBay isn't an option, since the customs and the delivery and postage usually amount to close to 20€.

The fact is that this has been an unilateral decision by FFG, and good willed customers have bought retail core sets that are "defective" without warning.

The deal was one, people bought some product, then they changed the deal. (This is becoming a trend)

If the product you bought comes with a defective or outdated component, I don't see unreasonable that FFG had to replace that component for free.

I will make another prediction (based on my naive good faith), and I will probably be wrong, again:

The most decent thing to do will be to hand out free damage decks to all tournament participants, or make it optional, forever. And that is what FFG will do.

But, probably I'll be wrong.

Have any of them tried contacting FFG customer services? They are great and will probably just send them new damage decks. They've replaced components I've lost out of my own stupidity without even asking to see proof of purchase before. Should only take a minute or two to fill out the contact form and explain as new players you were unaware of the new rules changes for competitive play.

I'd be curious to see if anyone has spoken to FFG on a similar topic instead of 14 page long forum threads going in circles. Honestly; the worst they can do is say "No." leaving in the same situation you already are.

Yeah, this thread is starting to feel like arguing with a brick wall...

Buy it, or don't buy it. it actually doesn't matter to me.

If you literally just bought a new Ot set, consider talking to FFG Customer services, knowing them they will probably help. Otherwise.... consider it like a 2nd ed thing.

And I guess your point is that you just dismiss any view that reflects poorly on the things you think are perfectly acceptable because your opinion and view is always correct in your mind. I guess having an actual discussion with you and the FFG can do no wrong crowd, and the competitive elitists is pointless. It's not going to stop me though. Good day!

I think you just invented the metapost.

The deal was one, people bought some product, then they changed the deal. (This is becoming a trend)

The K-wing was the latest in a long chain of ****ups in the marketing department (every article in Wave 7 had some sort of error) and the rules text in the same article was pretty clear on how it actually worked.

You're assuming that reprints of the original box set will contain the original damage deck.

Future reprints of the original box set may well include the new damage deck - in which case, both box sets will indeed be perfectly valid entry points for the game, and both will also be legal for tournaments.

Obviously you can't apply your argument to pre-existing box sets which were printed before the new damage deck was introduced, that's patently absurd.

Oh yes, FUTURE reprints may have the new deck, but right now how many old ones are in the retail chain? I know it's not just a few, and most likely in the high thousands+. How many people are going to buy those old starters not having any clue as to there even being a new damage deck in any box? That's the biggest kicker, new purchasers are going to get a rude awakening that will leave them with a low opinion of the game or it's publisher. Is that what everyone here wants because they're so tied up with tournament play they don't care about new people. See I care about the hobby as a whole, and I like this game, but I don't want a large number of folks first experience into the hobby to leave them feeling taken advantage of over a stupid deck in a new starter because they wanted to do a tournament. I guess I'm strange like that.

You are correct, going by the current published opinion of FFG both should be valid for any event they sponsor, but then they go and do otherwise with the tournament rules. They've kept eerily silent on the mater, is the tournament scene where their heart lies and they just pay the "casuals" lip service with all the casual and new player stuff they publish or do they really care about the casuals and new players ?

Sigh...

Obviously you can't apply your argument to pre-existing box sets which were printed before the new damage deck was introduced, that's patently absurd.

(Also, the new core set ate their entire planned ship budget? How few ships were they planning on getting?)

I know this will shock a good bunch of people here but feel I need to say it:

Not every player has a past as a victim of Games Workshop or Wizards of the Coast.

I mean, I come from playing Magic, and my skin is already leather, as my granpa would say. But for people not used to those kind of games, 80€ is a sizeable portion of gaming budget, specially when you have girlfriends/wives giving their opinion about it. With 80€ you can get a good bunch of games in Steam sales, or 2-3 gooood board games. It is hard to justify skipping that for getting instead an errata'ed component for a single board game. Also, with 80€ you can get two aces packs and a medium ship, that is what they were going after.

Yeah I don't know why that's shocking OT purists that haven't bought stuff post wave four have been on these forums for ages no one attacks them for that choice nor should they.

When I started I had four ties two advanced and a Firespray that served me well while waiting for interceptors to restock and wave four to release, you don't need to own everything to enjoy this game.

Oh yes, FUTURE reprints may have the new deck, but right now how many old ones are in the retail chain? I know it's not just a few, and most likely in the high thousands+. How many people are going to buy those old starters not having any clue as to there even being a new damage deck in any box? That's the biggest kicker, new purchasers are going to get a rude awakening that will leave them with a low opinion of the game or it's publisher. Is that what everyone here wants because they're so tied up with tournament play they don't care about new people. See I care about the hobby as a whole, and I like this game, but I don't want a large number of folks first experience into the hobby to leave them feeling taken advantage of over a stupid deck in a new starter because they wanted to do a tournament. I guess I'm strange like that.

You are correct, going by the current published opinion of FFG both should be valid for any event they sponsor, but then they go and do otherwise with the tournament rules. They've kept eerily silent on the mater, is the tournament scene where their heart lies and they just pay the "casuals" lip service with all the casual and new player stuff they publish or do they really care about the casuals and new players ?

This has happened to my circle already. I have been promoting the game among my friends after I they saw I had took part in a tournament and had a blast there.

They went and bought two cores past week, original core sets, because they don't like the look and feel of the new ones ("They look more like toys" they said ), and I had told them that the new leaked core set rules reference said that one can use whatever damage deck they have. One of them kept the rebel ships and the other kept the imperials. They were planning on getting on the game slowly by buying individual packs they had already put their eyes on, in order to take part in those cool tournaments.

You know, over here, there are not really a FLGS "scene", and people don't gather in stores to play casual games. The stores don't even have tables. They sell their product and organize tournaments now and then, so tournaments are the real only chance to play your list against other people, even if you have no hopes (or delusions) of reaching the top.

Then FFG comes with the latest tournament rules. They are really feeling scammed. And I feel bad because I got them into the game. If both want to participate, they will need to spend 80€ on two The Force Awakens' core sets they don't want, and that money was basically their whole planned budget for the ships they wanted for next year. The whole thing has put them already in a hostile mood against the game and even the new movies.

EBay isn't an option, since the customs and the delivery and postage usually amount to close to 20€.

The fact is that this has been an unilateral decision by FFG, and good willed customers have bought retail core sets that are "defective" without warning.

The deal was one, people bought some product, then they changed the deal. (This is becoming a trend)

If the product you bought comes with a defective or outdated component, I don't see unreasonable that FFG had to replace that component for free.

I will make another prediction (based on my naive good faith), and I will probably be wrong, again:

The most decent thing to do will be to hand out free damage decks to all tournament participants, or make it optional, forever. And that is what FFG will do.

But, probably I'll be wrong.

If they're planning to play in official tournaments over the next 3 months they have the correct damage decks. If they still like the game in 4 months, maybe they'll be willing to buy new damage decks to continue playing in official tournaments? By then the secondary market will be much larger for the deck.

Making a purchase using only leaked unconfirmed rules as a guide isn't the best practice. Blaming FFG for your[their] making that hasty purchase is silly.

I suppose that's the truth of it. I'm an ex 40K'er of some 20 years so of course none of this fazes me in the slightest - why would it?

Making a purchase using only leaked unconfirmed rules as a guide isn't the best practice. Blaming FFG for your[their] making that hasty purchase is silly.

The main reason wasn't just unconfirmed rules, but mainly nostalgic preference. They are my same age, in their 30s, and they like the OT ships and some of the EU ships. They feel certain disdain for the new "Rounded edges toy-looking x-wing, and Steve Jobs' TIE Fighter Pro", so going for the classic core was a no brainer for them. They just didn't expect (neither did I) they were going to be discriminated by their decision.

Not trying to pour hate over FFG here or the new ships; I am still a firm fan of the game, and wish they would become also. It's just mater of their tastes and particular circumstances. Obviously nobody expects the money making machine to stop just to satify MrNobody's broken expectation in Idontcareville.

I've yet to see a reason why selling damage decks separately is undesirable or unworkable.

I hear a lot of excuses from fanboys, and frankly I'm beyond sick of hearing from FFG's army of apologists.

That's your point of view, you are welcome to it.

Mine is more or less opposed. I've seen companies really price gouge on new editions, to the point where this is incidental and almost trivial. I'm sick of people whining for whining sake when it's been established that there are alternate ways of getting the new decks. - Especially as this isn't an issue for tournaments until next year.

I've yet to see a reason why selling damage decks separately is undesirable or unworkable.

I hear a lot of excuses from fanboys, and frankly I'm beyond sick of hearing from FFG's army of apologists.

in other words

I've yet to see a reason why selling damage decks separately is undesirable or unworkable.

I hear a lot of excuses from fanboys, and frankly I'm beyond sick of hearing from FFG's army of apologists.

in other words

Really? That's how you treat my opinion?

How disrespectful are you? Grow up ffs.

Dude, did you not use the words "excuses from fanboys" and "beyond sick of hearing from FFG's army of apologists"?

Gecko's post is actually more respectful than what yours deserves. Thank him.

I've yet to see a reason why selling damage decks separately is undesirable or unworkable.

I hear a lot of excuses from fanboys, and frankly I'm beyond sick of hearing from FFG's army of apologists.

Seriously, it looks like a nice core set, good enough for any serious, competition-minded X-Wing fan. Note that this does not invalidate what I wrote above: I really hope the damage deck will be sold separately. It does seem unlikely that this will happen though.

If you want recognition that this was not a customer friendly move by FFG: here you are. I totally understand the disappointment. The game has effectively moved into a 2nd edition without it ever being made explicit. Thankfully the changes are small.

I don't know why some react so strongly to negative remarks about FFG.

I don't know why some react so strongly to negative remarks about FFG.

My quotes kinda messed up but I will say this:

I don't think this is a big deal either, explained why enough times now, but in regards to defending FFG somewhat:

FFG IMO Saved 40K as a universe with their work on the 40KRPG, have done great things with the star wars license and their customer support has proven to be unparalleled. - and fine, all of that is me being a bit of an FFG Fanboy. I accept that.

They've proven themselves as a company way better than - and yes i'll make the comparison again - GW/wizkids/WOTC.

Despite this all, I honestly think that the frustration RE Damage decks is premature. TFA core set came out a couple weeks ago limited release, I only got mine - as soon as could be ordered here might I add - 2 days ago.

We don't know what FFG's plans are regarding tournament preparation for - and let me say this again - NEXT #$%#ING YEAR!

As a pseudo second edition - which I consider it, a one time expense doesn't seem to be an issue. I can use my comparison to other games and say that this is trivial - I've done that a few times, in my perspective it really is.

The dichotomy of this situation is thus: Long term gamers/the get everythings, the tournament crowd, the ex 40kers. They won't batt an eyelid about this.

The casuals, those with small collections, only get the bits they want. They might, but without being tournament players they are free to use the old damage deck - and are thus unaffected.

So rather than namecalling and acting like a ****, why not explain to me why you are effected? (The latter specifically at those who are being a little too aggressive - not you, Lingula).

Dude, did you not use the words "excuses from fanboys" and "beyond sick of hearing from FFG's army of apologists"?

Gecko's post is actually more respectful than what yours deserves. Thank him.

I didn't traduce his point of view to that of a screaming child, so no, I won't be thanking him. Get over yourself.

And if you think FFG's legion of apologists don't behave badly, i'd advise you to read the thread you're in.

Don't take my opinion and be so dismissive of it.

When Games Workshop decided to commit suicide by biting the hand that feeds them, I was on the lookout for an excellent tactical miniature wargame, with a sci-fi element.

Enter X-Wing.

Actually this is pretty much it for me.

40K 7th came out. I was like "**** this noise". I've been looking at the pretty-prepainted models and decided to get a core set.

I fell in love with the game very quickly, the quick games even at 100 points (because i quickly bought every expansion pack i could get my greedy little mitts on) the fact that there were so few rules arguments and it was so streamlined (remember I was previously playing 40K...) the comparative lack of cheese(40k...).

This started a chain reaction which took me back to my teen + preteen years of being an epic star wars geek.

I suppose that's the truth of it. I'm an ex 40K'er of some 20 years so of course none of this fazes me in the slightest - why would it?

So it doesn't phase you but you quit 40k because of 7th ed..

I don't know why some react so strongly to negative remarks about FFG.

My quotes kinda messed up but I will say this:

I don't think this is a big deal either, explained why enough times now, but in regards to defending FFG somewhat:

FFG IMO Saved 40K as a universe with their work on the 40KRPG, have done great things with the star wars license and their customer support has proven to be unparalleled. - and fine, all of that is me being a bit of an FFG Fanboy. I accept that.

They've proven themselves as a company way better than - and yes i'll make the comparison again - GW/wizkids/WOTC.

Despite this all, I honestly think that the frustration RE Damage decks is premature. TFA core set came out a couple weeks ago limited release, I only got mine - as soon as could be ordered here might I add - 2 days ago.

We don't know what FFG's plans are regarding tournament preparation for - and let me say this again - NEXT #$%#ING YEAR!

As a pseudo second edition - which I consider it, a one time expense doesn't seem to be an issue. I can use my comparison to other games and say that this is trivial - I've done that a few times, in my perspective it really is.

The dichotomy of this situation is thus: Long term gamers/the get everythings, the tournament crowd, the ex 40kers. They won't batt an eyelid about this.

The casuals, those with small collections, only get the bits they want. They might, but without being tournament players they are free to use the old damage deck - and are thus unaffected.

So rather than namecalling and acting like a ****, why not explain to me why you are effected? (The latter specifically at those who are being a little too aggressive - not you, Lingula).

FFG didn't save 40k at all. No rpg line is going to save anything, they don't sell enough.

And this also assumes the game isn't the hot mess it currently exists as.

When Games Workshop decided to commit suicide by biting the hand that feeds them, I was on the lookout for an excellent tactical miniature wargame, with a sci-fi element.

Enter X-Wing.

Actually this is pretty much it for me.

40K 7th came out. I was like "**** this noise". I've been looking at the pretty-prepainted models and decided to get a core set.

I fell in love with the game very quickly, the quick games even at 100 points (because i quickly bought every expansion pack i could get my greedy little mitts on) the fact that there were so few rules arguments and it was so streamlined (remember I was previously playing 40K...) the comparative lack of cheese(40k...).

This started a chain reaction which took me back to my teen + preteen years of being an epic star wars geek.

I suppose that's the truth of it. I'm an ex 40K'er of some 20 years so of course none of this fazes me in the slightest - why would it?

So it doesn't phase you but you quit 40k because of 7th ed..

Yeah 7th ed was the bridge too far for me. Pseudo second edition x-wing is nothing like that.

Edit: expanding on this. 6th ed lasted for only 2 years, if even. 7th ed had the horrendous invisibility meta - even worse than 6th, additionally well over 100 dollars in books alone let alone mini's that were more efficient for the meta(centstar anyone). Nah. Not comparing that to x-wingV2 favourably.

To serpent: I wouldn't say x-wing is a hot mess by any stretch right now. With the latest wave I actually think we may have hit meta stability, where most if not all ships are viable. including ordnance carriers.

40KRPG... time will tell.

Customer opinion will no doubt fit into the equation, just like I expect it did with the S&V Dial ruling.

Can someone elaborate on what happened with the "S&V Dial ruling" for us newish to the game? Cheers.

Customer opinion will no doubt fit into the equation, just like I expect it did with the S&V Dial ruling.

Can someone elaborate on what happened with the "S&V Dial ruling" for us newish to the game? Cheers.

Originally tournament ruling was you had to have the faction appropriate dial for a ship to use it for a faction, so a rebel z-95 or y-wing dial couldn't be used for scum. This ruling was reversed.